Is the "In Marvin We Trust" Era Over?

[cincy9275]

i will say hell f**king no!!!!!!!!! and i can not believe that this is even being suggested. this man is single handily responsible for this teams turn around. am i pissed at him very much so , because i think he needs to upgrade his staff with quality guys and not some other teams cast offs like brat and bresh. no way in hell does this team get rid of him. just remember the shula coslet and lebeau days and you soon will come back to reality and realize that marvin is one hell of a coach. but i do think he need to step up and take control of his assistants and make them and players responsible for there f**k up's and replace them as needed!!!!!!!!!!!

[sexywendy]

A real bengal doesnt support Odell or Henry,they are both punks you cant depend on.I didnt think that about Henry till yesterday, his total lack of effort on that last play showed a total lack of respect for Marvin. After being suspended for 3 games by Marvin then the NFL he still dogged it. I believe Marvin will take care of it but this crap ruins my entire week. I want just one SB win before I die,IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK? Ive stuck with this team since I was born in I JUST WANT ONE!!!!! Win or lose im always there and it makes me sick after every loss to hear the players say the same crap 1)Were better than them 2)If I would get the ball we would win!!!!! To many guys out for themselves!!!! If the offensive or Defensive coordinator sucks THAT IS THE HEAD COACHES FAULT!!!! He hired him fix it!!!!!! WHODEY!!!!!

[BengalszoneBilly]

I voted yes. People are forgetting what kind of situation he walked into when he accepted this job. Sure...the Bengals are 4-4 right now, but in the years before he arrived, 4 wins were the norm for the whole damn season!

In Marvin I Still Trust!

[Riagogogoindanati]

Sorry, I won't be defending you. You stated, in plain english, that you jumped OFF the bandwagon. So yeah, I'm wondering why your still posting here? Pick another team and move on, or choose your words a little more carefully.

A couple of .500 season and one winning one has really spoiled this fanbase. After the debacle of the past 15 years, I'd of thought it take more than that

Oh...BB7...........it's the fairweatherness of it all.........this thread is beginning to sound like the Squealers boards. It's great that PBS is all sold out now. (living in Tampa, I don't get to go to many PBS games anymore unless I come up to the 'nati to see my parents..........my dad has had season tickets since 1980.) but, I can just hear all of the fairweather fans now wishing they hadn't bought their COA's and season tickets. All of the fairweather fans should just burn their tickets.......so the true fans with long standing season tickets can stretch out across a few seats again.

I undertand people have to jump onto the bandwagon at some point........but, it's waaaaaaaay toooooo eaaaarrrlllllyyyy to jump off yet. A good mix of injuries, strength of schedule and run-ins with the law will get your team to a 4-4 record pretty quickly.

[agreen_112]

A real bengal doesnt support Odell or Henry,they are both punks you cant depend on.I didnt think that about Henry till yesterday, his total lack of effort on that last play showed a total lack of respect for Marvin. After being suspended for 3 games by Marvin then the NFL he still dogged it. I believe Marvin will take care of it but this crap ruins my entire week. I want just one SB win before I die,IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK? Ive stuck with this team since I was born in I JUST WANT ONE!!!!! Win or lose im always there and it makes me sick after every loss to hear the players say the same crap 1)Were better than them 2)If I would get the ball we would win!!!!! To many guys out for themselves!!!! If the offensive or Defensive coordinator sucks THAT IS THE HEAD COACHES FAULT!!!! He hired him fix it!!!!!! WHODEY!!!!!

There's a lot of things that I could say here but I'll just say this: If a real Bengal doesn't support Henry then why did his QB. Carson wears the freaking uniform and he supported Henry you dodo brain!

That's Right Billy! IN MARVIN I TRUST!!!

[Riagogogoindanati]

It is over. The man has had too long to solve our problems on defense and being the defensive wizard he is he has failed terribly in doing so. Biggest mistake was letting Frazier go, IMO. We look stupid right now, and we never go out and try to fix the problem. We are doing the same thing every week. Marvin I love you to death, but you need to make some changes and start forking out money for defensive players in the FA market next year. We can't continue with this s**tty defense.

Marvin is a proven defensive wizard............but what I didn't know is that he could predict the future........

Pollack with a possibly career ending neck fracture in week 2

Thurman and his 4 game suspension in his 2nd season.......and his crazy DUI shenanigans prior to his coming back

Dexter Jackson's injuries.

These are 3 biggies just off the top of my head.

It's not Marvin who has the deep pockets..............It's Mr. Mike Brown........................It always comes back to Mr. Mike Brown.

Do you realize the FA's we've attracted in just this past off season? FA's never even thought of Cincinnati as a possibility until Marvin came to Cinci. Jackson, Adams, Chatman....who am I missing?

[Stripes]

All he's done is win the division with a franchise that hadn't done so the previous 15 years. Yeah, throw him out to the dogs.

Let's hire Denny Green after he gets fired!

[Spor_tees]

Marvin is a proven defensive wizard............but what I didn't know is that he could predict the future........

He is? Then why hasn't the defense gotten any better since he has been here? He has had plenty of time to draft players, bring in free agents, and teach the vets "his" system. Still no "superbowl winning" defense.

Isn't it weird how guys that were so great as Coordinators for offense or defense become head coaches and can't make their team into a great team on the same side of the ball they coached on.

Marvin was a Defensive Cord. and the Bengals are a better Offensive team than Defense.

Tony Dungy was a Defensive Cord. and the Colts are probably the best Offense in the league.

Brian Billick was a great Offensive Cord. with Minnesota and now he is only known for his great defenses in Baltimore.

[Ox]

Damn the ground is shaking from the bandwagon unloading. Tha's fine. And wow did this topic touch a nerve with some of you all. BSS good job creating this thread. Of course the IMWT era is not over. Patience, my friends, not even 4 years ago the season was over with 4 losses. We're just now to the halfway point, and with 1 win over the chargers and threads like these never happen.

[ArmyBengal]

I will admit that I haven't read any of this thread and haven't seen much of anything Bengals in the past week, but I was thinking that had a call here or a play there gone our way, we could easily be 7-1 right now. I may be off, but I think if they can make a few adjustments and not make the mistakes they seem to be prone to lately, the second half of this season could look much different from the 4-4 we are currently trying to figure out. If not, FIRE EVERYONE !!! Just kidding...

Hope everyone is doing well !!!

WHODEY !!!

[sexywendy]

A real bengal doesnt support Odell or Henry,they are both punks you cant depend on.I didnt think that about Henry till yesterday, his total lack of effort on that last play showed a total lack of respect for Marvin. After being suspended for 3 games by Marvin then the NFL he still dogged it. I believe Marvin will take care of it but this crap ruins my entire week. I want just one SB win before I die,IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK? Ive stuck with this team since I was born in I JUST WANT ONE!!!!! Win or lose im always there and it makes me sick after every loss to hear the players say the same crap 1)Were better than them 2)If I would get the ball we would win!!!!! To many guys out for themselves!!!! If the offensive or Defensive coordinator sucks THAT IS THE HEAD COACHES FAULT!!!! He hired him fix it!!!!!! WHODEY!!!!!

There's a lot of things that I could say here but I'll just say this: If a real Bengal doesn't support Henry then why did his QB. Carson wears the freaking uniform and he supported Henry you dodo brain!

That's Right Billy! IN MARVIN I TRUST!!!

Do you think Carson supports him after yesterday? I supported him till yesterday,I will never trust him again.I believe since hes black you will support him no matter what!!!! A punks a punk no matter what color he is!!!! You believe we dont like him because hes black!!! Thats a load of crap a lot of people dont like him because we dont believe that he will do the right thing!!! HES A BITCH!!!!

[Ox]

I will admit that I haven't read any of this thread and haven't seen much of anything Bengals in the past week, but I was thinking that had a call here or a play there gone our way, we could easily be 7-1 right now. I may be off, but I think if they can make a few adjustments and not make the mistakes they seem to be prone to lately, the second half of this season could look much different from the 4-4 we are currently trying to figure out. If not, FIRE EVERYONE !!! Just kidding...

Hope everyone is doing well !!!

WHODEY !!!

OK, , but Army how is the little one?

[ArmyBengal]

My wife tells me he's doing well and I get pics over the phone everyday, so that is cool. I get to see them at Thanksgiving and Christmas, so that is good. It's harder than I could have ever imagined to be away from them, but the clock won't stop and things will be ok. I've got a job to do and I'll be back to see bigger and better down the road. Thanks for asking and sorry for the interruption you guys !!!

Sounds like I'm not a real Bengal fan anymore because I like Henry, maybe I missed something...

WHODEY !!!

[HoosierCat]

Keep safe, Army, and best to the family!

As to the topic at hand, I personally never bought into the whole "in Marvin we trust" bit, tho I was certainly willing to give him the benefit of the doubt after the Long Dark of the Nineties. I complained about what I thought were dumb moves and hailed what I thought were good ones.

Right now, I really don't see much to point fingers at Marvin over. Oh, there are old gripes, like IMHO drafting too many character risks, but none of that is very helpful right now. The only real question for Marvin now is, what can he do to right this sinking ship?

The answer, it seems to me, is: not much. Injuries have gutted the core of the defense -- the linebackers -- as well as the offensive line, the star QB is now merely mortal and still trying to move beyond a mangled knee, and our STs keeping taking losses (Tab, Chatman, now K2 is dinged, etc.) There's simply no easy cure for an avalanche of injuries like that.

In fact, I think it's kind of amazing that the Bengals have been (to use the dreaded "C" word) as competitive as they have been, all things considered. I think that suggests the coaches are doing a pretty good job, not a bad one. Is it good enough? Obviously not. But IMHO it's up to the players now. Either they rise to the challenge...or they don't.

[Spor_tees]

Keep safe, Army, and best to the family!

As to the topic at hand, I personally never bought into the whole "in Marvin we trust" bit, tho I was certainly willing to give him the benefit of the doubt after the Long Dark of the Nineties. I complained about what I thought were dumb moves and hailed what I thought were good ones.

Right now, I really don't see much to point fingers at Marvin over. Oh, there are old gripes, like IMHO drafting too many character risks, but none of that is very helpful right now. The only real question for Marvin now is, what can he do to right this sinking ship?

The answer, it seems to me, is: not much. Injuries have gutted the core of the defense -- the linebackers -- as well as the offensive line, the star QB is now merely mortal and still trying to move beyond a mangled knee, and our STs keeping taking losses (Tab, Chatman, now K2 is dinged, etc.) There's simply no easy cure for an avalanche of injuries like that.

In fact, I think it's kind of amazing that the Bengals have been (to use the dreaded "C" word) as competitive as they have been, all things considered. I think that suggests the coaches are doing a pretty good job, not a bad one. Is it good enough? Obviously not. But IMHO it's up to the players now. Either they rise to the challenge...or they don't.

Come on, good teams coached by top notch coaches, find ways to win despite injuries and losing good players. Every year it seems like the Patriots lose players ot injuries and to free agency and make the playoffs over and over. Besides, in the Preseason wasn't everyone on this board talking about how it was going to be so hard to cut guys because even the back-ups were good enough to start on a lot of other teams?

[Stripes]

Come on, good teams coached by top notch coaches, find ways to win despite injuries and losing good players. Every year it seems like the Patriots lose players ot injuries and to free agency and make the playoffs over and over.

I'm sorry Marvin isn't Bill freaking Belichick.

This Bengals team has had one of the toughest schedules in the league thus far and has sustained injuries all over the offense and the defense.

They've had a tough stretch here, losing four of their last five. Regardless of all that adversity, they've managed to hold the fort down at 4-4. Sure, .500 isn't what we expected coming into the season, but the season isn't over.

That's 4-4, folks. Not 2-6, not 3-5, not 1-7. 4-4. A 10-6 finish is not out of the question in the least.

[Kinnebrewski]

I'm new to this forum but have been a Bengal fan since I was a wee tot.

I have to say, it's disappointing to see that there are so many aggressive fan-boy types here who just reflexively shoot down any sort of criticism of the team or the organization. Sometimes we have to look reality in the face, and it's not always pretty, people. If insisting on keeping up this positive facade about the team is what you need to get through the day, fine, but why must you try to impose that on others?

Moreover, who are you to try and define what a "true fan" is?? This reminds me of the same kind of bulls**t any critic of the war in Iraq used to face......"you're unpatriotic", "....undermining the morale of the troops",

"if you don't like this country then just get out." What a pile of horses**t.

Being a true fan, or being patriotic for that matter, by nature means that you act CONCERNED when you think there is a problem, and that you VOICE your concern, precisely because you CARE. It's one thing if someone is just so blatantly cynical and negative that it seems like they're trolling and being an antagonist. I haven't seen that here though, and you guys need to get around more if you think that really exists here.

IMHO, the jury is still out on Marvin Lewis. I was very excited by his hiring and I was very excited by what the team was able to do last season under him. I think he's a very smart football guy and his background

as a defensive coach is impeccable.

These are the things that concern me however:

1- Resistance to change/loyalty/conservatism, what have you. Based on his comments to the press and my general impression of him personally over time, I wonder if Marvin is going to be flexible enough to adapt and make whatever changes are needed when and if his larger vision for this team doesn't seem to be panning out. I don't question whether he's smart enough to adapt, really just whether he is flexible enough. Part of me is getting the sense more and more that he is rather stubborn, kind of "stay pat" in a way. Coaches like that don't last in this league unless they have the most outstanding franchise and organization to work with.

2- The fact that he is a defensive guru and yet the defense, 3 years in, is still miles away from where it needs to be if this team is to compete deep into the playoffs. I think on the one hand Marvin has made some nice cheap finds in the FA market (Deltha in particular) and a few draft discoveries (like RoGeathers), overall he has still not been able to amass the core of talent needed to build a really strong defense. I would say this even with Pollack and/or Thurman in the mix too. Odell Thurman was overrated by Bengal fans who aren't used to seeing anyone make big tackles on this defense. Pollack's development was never a foregone conclusion and definitely someone who could go either way. The question is, is Marvin Lewis to blame for not getting the help on defense that's needed, or does this come back to MB and the fam, and the lack of a true pro scouting department?

3- Finally, is ML someone who really has the persona and characteristics to be a great coach, and not just a great coordinator? There is something about him that has always struck me as a little bit "clinical" and wonders if he is really able to project himself strongly to the players, to get them to truly buy into his leadership and give him their unswerving loyalty.

I could be wrong but I wonder if we could possibly have a Lindy Infante/Dick LeBeau situation here. Great coordinator, but couldn't motivate the players as a head coach.

What's been interesting the past few weeks in this respect too is that he really doesn't seem to get all that charged or upset about what's happening. As we know too there is a fine very line between being seeming to be stoic and seeming to be indifferent. I would love to see more emotion from the guy=== and on the sidelines, not just snapping at a reporter here and there. I know he's probably just trying to keep a semblance of calm or stability for the sake of the team, but I wonder if he needs to make a real stand......will he?

[coupdayta]

Levi and Braham are out.

We're starting second string linebackers across the board.

The refs have been screwing us.

We only got whooped once.

We have one of the most difficult schedules in the NFL.

Carson is coming off a huge injury.

And we're 4-4 and 2-1 in the division.

All in all I'd say things are pretty decent for all these problems and Marvin is probably the reason for that. All you naysayers should move to Pittsburgh and start rooting for the Steelers. Grow a pair of balls and accept that even great teams go through growing pains.

[agreen_112]

A real bengal doesnt support Odell or Henry,they are both punks you cant depend on.I didnt think that about Henry till yesterday, his total lack of effort on that last play showed a total lack of respect for Marvin. After being suspended for 3 games by Marvin then the NFL he still dogged it. I believe Marvin will take care of it but this crap ruins my entire week. I want just one SB win before I die,IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK? Ive stuck with this team since I was born in I JUST WANT ONE!!!!! Win or lose im always there and it makes me sick after every loss to hear the players say the same crap 1)Were better than them 2)If I would get the ball we would win!!!!! To many guys out for themselves!!!! If the offensive or Defensive coordinator sucks THAT IS THE HEAD COACHES FAULT!!!! He hired him fix it!!!!!! WHODEY!!!!!

There's a lot of things that I could say here but I'll just say this: If a real Bengal doesn't support Henry then why did his QB. Carson wears the freaking uniform and he supported Henry you dodo brain!

That's Right Billy! IN MARVIN I TRUST!!!

Do you think Carson supports him after yesterday? I supported him till yesterday,I will never trust him again.I believe since hes black you will support him no matter what!!!! A punks a punk no matter what color he is!!!! You believe we dont like him because hes black!!! Thats a load of crap a lot of people dont like him because we dont believe that he will do the right thing!!! HES A BITCH!!!!

Your a great fan! Henry's is still on this team as of today so his team must still be supporting him.. It was a tough loss and Palmer felt like Henry didn't make an attempt to catch the ball, boo hoo. Palmer overthrew the ball and then over reacted. Palmer doesn't have the ability yet to lead a game winning drive like Manning.

You've probably never played a competitive sport in your life. Guys are going to fight, but that doesn't mean that they are not brothers anymore. Palmer still supports his man Henry.

Please get over the trouble Henry made, it's over, why dwell in the past... He's not a bad guy and he's incredibly talented, a huge asset to Palmer's offense.

You sound like an ignorant trailer-trash hillbilly when you bring up the black thing so please don't do that anymore, that has nothing to do with thread, but obviously it's what stems your hate for Chris Henry..

[HoosierCat]

Come on, good teams coached by top notch coaches, find ways to win despite injuries and losing good players.

No, they don't. That's a myth. The Pats are the exception, not the rule.

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=2734

[Riagogogoindanati]

Marvin may not show his emotions to the world or this fan base for that matter. You know how I can tell when things are getting to him?

Look at the bags under his eyes. He may have a stoic personality....but I think scenarios/fixes are constantly churning in his head and the man doesn't get much sleep.

[Tasher]

WHAT? That's just CRAZY TALK!

You do not turn into a dynasty overnight. Look at the Pats. It took them a large number of years to get to where they are now. Indy? Same story. Go back and look at their histories. There are ups and downs as the teams grow and develop.

THIS team is in its 3rd or 4th year of development, so go back and look at the third or fourth year of turning around the Pats or the Colts (or pick any other team of your choice). It is a process and takes a number of seasons.

This team is YOUNG and has been riddled with injuries as well as other issues to deal with and overcome. The fact that they are 4-4 is remarkable in and of itself.

Be patient. As Marvin says, "we will be right where we need to be at the end of the year."

[agreen_112]

WHAT? That's just CRAZY TALK!

You do not turn into a dynasty overnight. Look at the Pats. It took them a large number of years to get to where they are now. Indy? Same story. Go back and look at their histories. There are ups and downs as the teams grow and develop.

THIS team is in its 3rd or 4th year of development, so go back and look at the third or fourth year of turning around the Pats or the Colts (or pick any other team of your choice). It is a process and takes a number of seasons.

This team is YOUNG and has been riddled with injuries as well as other issues to deal with and overcome. The fact that they are 4-4 is remarkable in and of itself.

Be patient. As Marvin says, "we will be right where we need to be at the end of the year."

That's what I've been saying, it doesn't just happen overnight. Getting to the SB is a building process.

[derekshank]

We're 4-4. A big time disappointment compared to last year... but we'd be overjoyed if this were 3 years ago. This shows what Marvin has done here. Even if he's underacheived this year (which can clearly be debated) he has changed the culture here so much that we're outraged at a 4-4 start.

That's a good thing guys. He's the coach for us.

[Tasher]

We're 4-4. A big time disappointment compared to last year... but we'd be overjoyed if this were 3 years ago. This shows what Marvin has done here. Even if he's underacheived this year (which can clearly be debated) he has changed the culture here so much that we're outraged at a 4-4 start.

That's a good thing guys. He's the coach for us.

This is exactly the point. We are into the NEXT phase of rebuilding and that is winning year after year, not just once in a blue moon anomoly. I would contend that last year's success and division championship was too much too soon for this team (and maybe for us as fans). It is a process, and once you start winning, you get a different schedule, you get different expectations, everything changes.

We have to adjust to that as well.