A common thread: no playmakers on D/real reason...Marvin's D

[Stripes]

IF there are playmakers on defense, why does the defense suck? Why is our D one of the worst in the league year after year?

Last year against Pitt in the playoffs, Kitna helped us get 17 points. For ANY other team that weekend, that would have been enough to win. For our pathetic D, it wasn't even close.

If it weren't for the Bengals "one of the worst in the league" defense, the team would be 2-5 right now. Sure, it's inconsistent... but any rational viewer can see that it is improving.

Why do people defend garbage like Smith, williams, Suckeverharn, Simmons, Johnson and then wonder why the D sucks as bad as it does?

Kaesviharn and Johnson are backups. Considering such, I'd say we could do MUCH worse. Why defend Smith? He's doing exactly what his supporters said he would do this season with upgrades elsewhere on the line. Simmons is on and off, certainly... but he's by no means the joke you make him out to be.

Gee, if all the players you say are great, really are, our D would actually be as good as the Bears.

Just keep watching, Spanky. Impatient fans like yourself don't know what building a team is.

Smith is 8th in sacks, and people are ready to anoint him for the HOF.

What? Who said anything about the HOF?

[tibor75]

yeah, I'm impatient because I expect Genius Marvin to show one inch of improvement in FOUR years.

The nerve of me.

[HoosierCat]

yeah, I'm impatient because I expect Genius Marvin to show one inch of improvement in FOUR years.

Bengals points allowed:

2002 (final year of LeBeau): 456

2003: 384

2004: 372

2005: 350

2006 (projected): 325

I dunno about anyone else but I would call -101 points allowed *at least* an "inch" of improvement...

Get a clue, tibor.

[DaveShula]

No playmakers on D, a continuing myth (gosh, did the Bengals lose this weekend? I can't tell from the even-handed responses and threads on this board)

Deltha O'Neal has defined playmaker since coming to this team, and the Pro Bowl apeparance for him was no joke. Madieu Williams does nothing but make plays. And, right now, there are two ends (despite the slander tossed Justin Smith's way on this board) who are also "playmakers"---Smith and Geathers (who is getting better all the time). That's four I am comfortable with on defense. Tell you what, in three starts, Ahmad Brooks has all the earmarks of "playmaker". That's five.

So, five off the top of my head, depending on what your definition of the nebulous term "playmaker" is.

High dollar free agent? Who would that be, exactly? Impact free agents on defense are few and far between. How is John Abraham working out in Atlanta? Oh, that's right, he's only played 31 downs this year due to injury. Is Brian Urlacher going to be available anytime soon? No? What about other impact guys? What? Teams either lock them up or franchise them? Really? But...But... isn't real life NFL just like Madden? It's not?

Shocking.

As for the notion that this season so far is "painful", a serious question, just what the f**k were your expectations? Carson Palmer coming off a devastating knee injury and a schedule that could only be described as brutal---not exactly a recipe for unbridled optimism. Plenty of observers, both on this board and in the media noted the Bengals could be better than last year and not win as many games as 2005. A bunch in here, me included, thought 10 wins would be about right for this team, give or take one. It's a tough schedule, but this is a tough team. They are a few plays away from 6-1. They are a few plays away from 2-5. Such is life in the NFL in general. So, pardon me for being somewhat pleased, in light of all the injuries they have sustained, and Palmer's uncertainty to start the year and his lack of practice all off-season, and in light of their schedule, for being 4-3 at this point with a chance to get to 5-3 and tied for first in the division and a 3-0 division record at the halfway point. Not a bad opportunity. Hopefully they can take advantage of it. If they can't, hopefully it rights itself the next week. No reason with this team it can't.

A contuining myth? Did you see Justin Smith, Geathers, Brooks, and the other losers make any play this game? Did they make any play last game?

We had 2 sacks today...because McNair just fell down. THe guy is an aging 35 years old and we can't get close.

Defending this horrible defense is funny. You either have to work for the BEngals or simply are completely clueless.

[DaveShula]

Take a look at the 2004 and 2005 drafts. I'd rather not print the players b/c it's scary to look at. Bust after bust after bust after bust. the only one Marvin gets a pass on is Pollack. The rest are or were worthless.

[jjakq27]

Take a look at the 2004 and 2005 drafts. I'd rather not print the players b/c it's scary to look at. Bust after bust after bust after bust. the only one Marvin gets a pass on is Pollack. The rest are or were worthless.

Landon Johnson has been a top tackler all three years since he arrived. I would not consider him a bust.

[101Airborne]

IF there are playmakers on defense, why does the defense suck? Why is our D one of the worst in the league year after year?

Last year against Pitt in the playoffs, Kitna helped us get 17 points. For ANY other team that weekend, that would have been enough to win. For our pathetic D, it wasn't even close.

Why do people defend garbage like Smith, williams, Suckeverharn, Simmons, Johnson and then wonder why the D sucks as bad as it does?

Gee, if all the players you say are great, really are, our D would actually be as good as the Bears.

Comical.

Smith is 8th in sacks, and people are ready to anoint him for the HOF.

Suckeverharn? Oh, you mean the player who singlehandedly saved two of the Bengal's games this year with endzone interceptions? I don't recall anyone saying those players were great but you don't give them their due at all. If they are all as terrible as you claim, we'd be 32 in every defensive category there is. Smith is 8th in sacks an you are ready to have him kicked off the team

No one is on here saying we have a stellar defense, we are all saying our defense needs to improve and can do so if given the time and good coaching. We don't have a great defense, we don't have a crap defense, we have an average defense.

[dcbengal1]

Take a look at the 2004 and 2005 drafts. I'd rather not print the players b/c it's scary to look at. Bust after bust after bust after bust. the only one Marvin gets a pass on is Pollack. The rest are or were worthless.

Landon Johnson has been a top tackler all three years since he arrived. I would not consider him a bust.

The biggest mystery for this team is why it seems to do OK on 1st and second down, and is able to force teams into third and long with great frequency, and almost routinely gives up big plays on third down. With cornerbacks who have been all pros in the past, talking Deltha O'Neal and Tory James, and a good rookie in jj, with a superbowl MVP in DJ and an upand coming probowler in Madieu, and with Justin Smimth and Robert Geathers supposedly enjoying good years with rushing the quarterback, how in the hell is this happening? Does anyone have an explanation?

On the offensive side of the ball, completing 1/10 first downs won't get it done anywhere. But I guess we can explain that with the shaky offensive line and Carson throwing high due to his readjusted mechanics.

[joshh967]

The players are there on D except were not getting any pass rush...the QB has forever to sit back and make read after read until he finds a perfect target...Run D has improved but we will be lacking until we get consistant rush on the QB.

[HoosierCat]

The biggest mystery for this team is why it seems to do OK on 1st and second down, and is able to force teams into third and long with great frequency, and almost routinely gives up big plays on third down.

It actually doesn't do so "routinely," or at least it didn't today. The Ravens only converted 6 of 15 3rd down attempts. A far bigger problem, as you noted, was our offense only converting 1 of 10 3rd downs.

[cover2]

Todays game really brought the draft front and center. Chris Perry is one of the reasons we lost today and we past on who to get him...thats right he makes people miss. I am trying to remember a game he helped us win? We have not drafted well and we are paying for it.

[Scottishbengal]

We have not drafted well and we are paying for it.

Now in years gone by Mike Brown would have had a whole lotta sh1t for making those draft choices.

[membengal]

No playmakers on D, a continuing myth (gosh, did the Bengals lose this weekend? I can't tell from the even-handed responses and threads on this board)

Deltha O'Neal has defined playmaker since coming to this team, and the Pro Bowl apeparance for him was no joke. Madieu Williams does nothing but make plays. And, right now, there are two ends (despite the slander tossed Justin Smith's way on this board) who are also "playmakers"---Smith and Geathers (who is getting better all the time). That's four I am comfortable with on defense. Tell you what, in three starts, Ahmad Brooks has all the earmarks of "playmaker". That's five.

So, five off the top of my head, depending on what your definition of the nebulous term "playmaker" is.

High dollar free agent? Who would that be, exactly? Impact free agents on defense are few and far between. How is John Abraham working out in Atlanta? Oh, that's right, he's only played 31 downs this year due to injury. Is Brian Urlacher going to be available anytime soon? No? What about other impact guys? What? Teams either lock them up or franchise them? Really? But...But... isn't real life NFL just like Madden? It's not?

Shocking.

As for the notion that this season so far is "painful", a serious question, just what the f**k were your expectations? Carson Palmer coming off a devastating knee injury and a schedule that could only be described as brutal---not exactly a recipe for unbridled optimism. Plenty of observers, both on this board and in the media noted the Bengals could be better than last year and not win as many games as 2005. A bunch in here, me included, thought 10 wins would be about right for this team, give or take one. It's a tough schedule, but this is a tough team. They are a few plays away from 6-1. They are a few plays away from 2-5. Such is life in the NFL in general. So, pardon me for being somewhat pleased, in light of all the injuries they have sustained, and Palmer's uncertainty to start the year and his lack of practice all off-season, and in light of their schedule, for being 4-3 at this point with a chance to get to 5-3 and tied for first in the division and a 3-0 division record at the halfway point. Not a bad opportunity. Hopefully they can take advantage of it. If they can't, hopefully it rights itself the next week. No reason with this team it can't.

A contuining myth? Did you see Justin Smith, Geathers, Brooks, and the other losers make any play this game? Did they make any play last game?

We had 2 sacks today...because McNair just fell down. THe guy is an aging 35 years old and we can't get close.

Defending this horrible defense is funny. You either have to work for the BEngals or simply are completely clueless.

Hey newbie, f**k off.

Special teams and the offense handed Baltimore 14 points.

Actual drives allowed by the defense that ended in Baltimore points without Baltimore's offense being set up by a turnover? 12.

Get a f**king clue. You must either work for tibor or are completely clueless...

[membengal]

Yeah, that Madieu Williams, he sucks.

Jesus, newbie shula, get a ***damn grip.

Points the defense gave up today that were not set up by a turnover? 12. 12. I repeat, 12.

That's not a lot. At all. If Chris Perry isn't a fumbling douchebag, and Carson doesn't airmail and gift wrap another TD, people would be praising the D.

Try your whine in a different key...

[jjakq27]

Hey newbie, f**k off.

Special teams and the offense handed Baltimore 14 points.

Actual drives allowed by the defense that ended in Baltimore points without Baltimore's offense being set up by a turnover? 12.

Get a f**king clue. You must either work for tibor or are completely clueless...

Disgruntled Steeler fan, I believe. Who else would ever take the name Dave Shula as a screen name?

[cincy9275]

this defense was on the field for 37:24 . they can not get off the field they are terrible at 3rd downs . they just are not making any kind of plays two dropped int's that could have been a huge difference in the game. can't stop the run can't stop the pass. no pass rush what so ever. it also doesn't help when you offense is 1-10 on 3rd down. this whole team is playing like s**t. so it is hard just to blame one side of the ball when the team as a whole including coaches are not getting the job done!

[membengal]

12 points. The D was pretty much responsible for just 12 of those points.

Yes, they have been awful at getting off the field, but, still, 12 points. Turnovers, lack of execution, and failure to hold on to the ball when needed, anything and everything contributed to that loss, but, still, 12 points.