WRESTLING WITH WILDCATS

[DesperateDerelict]

Too long of an article to copy: Wrestling With Wildcats

A well-written, if somewhat schmaltzy, article on Marvin Lewis - his past, his relationship with Mikey-boy, and his trials and tribulations with mis-behaving Bengals players. To contribute to the current forum debate: It states categorically that Odell will NOT be back!

[AMC]

Will the Bengals draft differently now? "I think it will affect the franchise's approach to the draft," says Lewis, who talks to Brown daily. "It hasn't affected mine; why waste the man hours on high-maintenance guys? But you have to understand Mike Brown. He wants to win in the worst way, and he is from an era that believes kids deserve an opportunity to right their lives and he has confidence I can handle that."

That is my favorite quote from the article. Sounds like Marvin prefers not to draft bad character guys (duh), whereas Mike Brown tends to be the "give them a second chance" bleeding heart. Hence, alot of the problems stem from Mike Brown poking his nose into the draft. Just let Marvin and the scouts do their job and stop putting pressure on Marvin to clean up the mess...

[membengal]

In fairness, props to Mike Brown. Those high risk guys are also high reward given where they slide to relative to draft position. Yes, it is tiresome when it doesn't pan out (Thurman, Henry's on-going problems), but this team has been better in the short term on the field for them being on the team, even if it was or has been for short bursts.

So, if it is Brown that has been advocating the risk-taking, kudos to him. As I have opined at length in the other 100000 threads on this topic, I am comfortable with the reward being big enough to assume the risk...

[Tasher]

Wow! Everyone must read this!

Enormously insightful.

Even more so now: In Marvin We Trust!

[BengalByTheBay]

Wow! Everyone must read this!

Enormously insightful.

Even more so now: In Marvin We Trust!

I agree with this completely. I didn't really feel like clicking over, worthless, lazy bastard that I am, but it was an entrhalling read. Doesn't so much suggest as confirm that Odell is gone. I like that Marvin called Henry a "dumbass."

[HairOnFire]

Sorry, I'm not easily impressed.

The writer makes repeated attempts to link the Bengals grinding start to the so-called troublemakers, but ignores the fact that the team is in 1st place. The writer also overreaches about the negative impact of this years controversial draft class claiming that each of the four players who arrived with baggage have gotten into trouble, but in fully half of the examples mentioned he can only point to the fact that an injured Rucker was put on IR, and note that 2nd day draft pick AJ Nicholson hasn't played a down yet.

Worse, the writer attempts to make his case by ignoring Marvin's own statements that the "knuckleheads" haven't impacted the team or it's record. In fact, I'll argue that any article attempting to define the current state of the Bengals is as pointless as it is clueless if it doesn't mention Carson Palmer's return from injury or the slew of injuries that have dramatically impacted offensive line play. In addition, there's no mention anywhere of the fact that without the troubled Chris Henry the Bengals lose a critical game to the Steelers.

Finally, in an article that largely concerns itself with the drafting of young players, I have to ask where are the mentions of Jonathan Joseph and Andrew Whitworth? Wouldn't that seem to be an important addition considering the fact that it is a startegy of BOTH principles, Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis, that you take a chance on greatness whenever possible rather than banking yet another safe but marginal athlete?

[BengalByTheBay]

Sorry, I'm not easily impressed.

The writer makes repeated attempts to link the Bengals grinding start to the so-called troublemakers, but ignores the fact that the team is in 1st place. The writer also overreaches about the negative impact of this years controversial draft class claiming that each of the four players who arrived with baggage have gotten into trouble, but in fully half of the examples mentioned he can only point to the fact that an injured Rucker was put on IR, and note that 2nd day draft pick AJ Nicholson hasn't played a down yet.

Worse, the writer attempts to make his case by ignoring Marvin's own statements that the "knuckleheads" haven't impacted the team or it's record. In fact, I'll argue that any article attempting to define the current state of the Bengals is as pointless as it is clueless if it doesn't mention Carson Palmer's return from injury or the slew of injuries that have dramatically impacted offensive line play. In addition, there's no mention anywhere of the fact that without the troubled Chris Henry the Bengals lose a critical game to the Steelers.

Finally, in an article that largely concerns itself with the drafting of young players, I have to ask where are the mentions of Jonathan Joseph and Andrew Whitworth? Wouldn't that seem to be an important addition considering the fact that it is a startegy of BOTH principles, Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis, that you take a chance on greatness whenever possible rather than banking yet another safe but marginal athlete?

I don't disagree with your points HOF. What I did like about the article was the insights on Marvin v. Brown in terms of where the decisions were made and by whom. Personally, I agree with membengal that, if Mikey was calling the shots on all these guys, he's doing okay by me. You have to include everybody if you analyze the high-risk/high-reward type of drafting.

First, throw out Rucker for now because he hasn't played and, despite the fact that everybody got their panties in an enormous bunch about his "arrest," it was clearly a totally stale charge that had to be filed before the statute of limitations expired. There's probably a good reason we haven't heard diddly about this for months now -- it's in the process of simply going away.

Then, I think you should throw out Nicholson too because his arrest was for something so stupid that if he was a 49'er, for example, nobody would have ever even heard about it. Also, he was a 5th rounder -- hardly a huge chance taken there.

So, leaving those guys out because they don't count for, or against, either side of the argument you're left with:

Henry -- yeah, he's a "dumbass" but he has, and will, contribute mightily to this team. Always a threat on, and off, the field.

OT -- sad as hell and I believe he's gone, so 1 point for the "character" theorists.

Ahmad -- looks like he could eventually challenge Madieu for "best defensive player" on this team, contributing immediately despite being a rookie and getting work at 2 spots.

So, if you want to be a righteous "character matters" guy - you better be prepared to do without Henry and Brooks as well as Odell. How many are advocating that about right now?

[HoosierCat]

Will the Bengals draft differently now? "I think it will affect the franchise's approach to the draft," says Lewis, who talks to Brown daily. "It hasn't affected mine; why waste the man hours on high-maintenance guys? But you have to understand Mike Brown. He wants to win in the worst way, and he is from an era that believes kids deserve an opportunity to right their lives and he has confidence I can handle that."

That is my favorite quote from the article. Sounds like Marvin prefers not to draft bad character guys (duh), whereas Mike Brown tends to be the "give them a second chance" bleeding heart. Hence, alot of the problems stem from Mike Brown poking his nose into the draft. Just let Marvin and the scouts do their job and stop putting pressure on Marvin to clean up the mess...

Yup. And I'm good with that.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

No suprise you'll never see an article like this from anyone locally.

Mark Curnutte's blog literally is just a copy/paste job from Bengals.com for instance. I'd love to have his job.

I don't care if the article is bad or dares to question the almighty King Marvin and Mike Brown's philosophies, it's just nice to get some actual insight once in a while.

[aaronburr]

Thurman, the team's leading tackler last season, never will play again for the Bengals.

Is this official? I know there's been talk, but I don't think I've heard it sound so definitive.

[HoosierCat]

Thurman, the team's leading tackler last season, never will play again for the Bengals.

Is this official? I know there's been talk, but I don't think I've heard it sound so definitive.

Not to start the "will-he-won't-he" debate in (yet) another thread, but I have to agree with Hair that its unlikely without a "come to [insert religious figure of your choice]" event.

IF Odell stays clean until the 07 camps, and IF he comes in with a punch card or 10 citing his regular seven days a week perfect attendance record at AA, and IF he grovels (in private, of course) to Mike and Marvin, and IF he then goes out and busts his butt in the weight room and in practice and in preseason and stays clean the whole time...maybe, just maybe, he makes the final roster.

But the bottom line is that roster spots are too valuable to give to a guy who is one eff up away from yet another year on suspension. You have got to be able to count on players to be available to play. And he has a very, very, very long way to go to convince the team that he can do that.

[hrod382]

Will the Bengals draft differently now? "I think it will affect the franchise's approach to the draft," says Lewis, who talks to Brown daily. "It hasn't affected mine; why waste the man hours on high-maintenance guys? But you have to understand Mike Brown. He wants to win in the worst way, and he is from an era that believes kids deserve an opportunity to right their lives and he has confidence I can handle that."

That is my favorite quote from the article. Sounds like Marvin prefers not to draft bad character guys (duh), whereas Mike Brown tends to be the "give them a second chance" bleeding heart. Hence, alot of the problems stem from Mike Brown poking his nose into the draft. Just let Marvin and the scouts do their job and stop putting pressure on Marvin to clean up the mess...

Yup. And I'm good with that.

Word. That's a very good quote.

[derekshank]

Thurman, the team's leading tackler last season, never will play again for the Bengals.

Is this official? I know there's been talk, but I don't think I've heard it sound so definitive.

It can't be official yet... but based on the actions and statements of Marvin, it is all but. They will find some way some how to part ways with him. Whether it be to cut him after training camp, or he screws up again, and gets another year-long suspension... one way or another, we won't see him again.

Of course this is all speculation at this point... but all signs appear to be pointing in this direction.

[Stripes]

There have been just a few times we might have done something [Marvin] would have not preferred.

Straight from the mouth of Mike Brown, regarding draft decisions.

My response: "Stop."

[DesperateDerelict]

No suprise you'll never see an article like this from anyone locally.

Mark Curnutte's blog literally is just a copy/paste job from Bengals.com for instance. I'd love to have his job.

FROM THE ARTICLE:

He (Marvin Lewis) smiles and laughs a lot, sometimes nervously. He has eyes that sparkle, but they also can rage with a freezing look that can dominate the biggest lineman. He carries himself with supreme confidence; he enjoys being in charge, and he likes to lead. He also can be very controlling, with a bit of a temper and no patience for fools and bad questions.

"

Hey Shula -

You sure you want to be a journalist on the Bengals beat?

[HairOnFire]

Not to start the "will-he-won't-he" debate in (yet) another thread, but I have to agree with Hair that its unlikely without a "come to [insert religious figure of your choice]" event.

IF Odell stays clean until the 07 camps, and IF he comes in with a punch card or 10 citing his regular seven days a week perfect attendance record at AA, and IF he grovels (in private, of course) to Mike and Marvin, and IF he then goes out and busts his butt in the weight room and in practice and in preseason and stays clean the whole time...maybe, just maybe, he makes the final roster.

But the bottom line is that roster spots are too valuable to give to a guy who is one eff up away from yet another year on suspension. You have got to be able to count on players to be available to play. And he has a very, very, very long way to go to convince the team that he can do that.

It's not my decision to make, but from my chair Thurman makes the team next season, but the changes I make in response to his behavior are still pretty profound. Until further notice he's no longer a player I can build around, nor can I count on him as a starter. Instead, he's my new 3rd string LB....assuming for a moment that ridding him completely from the roster isn't considered vital to the rehab of players like Henry, McNeil, etc.

BTW, if I'm Marvin Lewis I think one of the first things I do is ask Ray Lewis to give Odell a phone call offering an invitation to the Official Ray Lewis Giant House of Motivational & Religious Doings. (ORLGHMRD)

[DesperateDerelict]

BTW, if I'm Marvin Lewis I think one of the first things I do is ask Ray Lewis to give Odell a phone call offering an invitation to the Official Ray Lewis Giant House of Motivational & Religious Doings. (ORLGHMRD)

Why do I get the visual of Ray-Ray doing a Flip Wilson type of sermon . . . . can I have an "A-MEN"

[Tasher]

Why do I get the visual of Ray-Ray doing a Flip Wilson type of sermon . . . . can I have an "A-MEN"

...from the BOBBLE HEADS?"