Nfl Access

[Kazkal]

and Says how his refs made the right call on protecting the QB.

Rough-ing day with refs

By GEOFF HOBSON

October 15, 2006

10:30 p.m.

TAMPA, Fla. _ Somehow, the Bengals thought they were in the middle of the NFL and a touch football game with the Kennedys broke out.

“I guess,’ said head coach Marvin Lewis after he thought the Bengals had sacked away a 13-7 victory, “you have to cuddle (the quarterback) to the ground.”

The most controversial play in the Bengals’ 14-13 loss to the Buccaneers here Sunday wasn’t the winning eight-yard touchdown pass from Tampa rookie quarterback Bruce Gradkowski to wide receiver Michael Clayton with 35 seconds left that got overturned by replay.

It was what the Bengals thought was a phantom roughing the quarterback penalty on defensive end Justin Smith with 2:45 left that gave Tampa Bay life and spawned a debate in the Bengals locker room about what exactly is a tackle nowadays.

And while that wasn’t the only call that had the Bengals stewing, it got the biggest reaction in a loss that sired a number of moods.

Lewis was sarcastic. T.J. Houshmandzadeh was volcanic. Justin Smith was apoplectic. Chad Johnson and Willie Anderson, usually bombastic, were mad enough not to speak.

“You might as well put a red jersey on the quarterback and two-hand touch him because you can’t touch him,” said wide receiver T.J. Houshmandzadeh.

Smith was stunned when the official told him he had driven Gradkowski’s helmet into the turf.

“He ducked his head, that’s why I had to roll over him like that. He almost slipped out,” Smith said. “(The ref) must have season tickets down here. I haven’t seen anything like that in my six years (in the NFL) where the game is changed like that. They’re not supposed to change the outcome.”

Smith appeared to simply tackle Gradkowski with the Bengals protecting a 13-7 lead and the Bucs facing a first down from the Cincinnati 32.

Smith dumped Gradkowski and knocked the ball loose and whether defensive end Robert Geathers;’ fumble recovery would have held up, who knows?

But the penalty made it first down from the 25 instead of Bengals’ ball and a kneel down. Or, at the very least, second-and-18 from the 40.

“If that’s the way the league is going, it’s going to be a pretty high scoring game,” Smith said. “I wish I could play quarterback.”

When Smith saw Geathers lying on top of the fumble, he thought the game was over and headed to the sidelines.

“That was the ballgame,” Smith said, and it was fitting that Geathers, his fellow defensive end, was involved.

“Ask Robert Geathers,” said Smith of the very blurred line between a Sports Center play and a game-changing penalty.

It was Geathers who launched himself into the air and knocked out Chiefs quarterback Trent Green in last month’s opener on what everyone but Chiefs president Carl Peterson deemed was a tough, hellacious and legal hit.

On Sunday, Geathers was called for roughing the passer on Tampa Bay’s first touchdown drive in the third quarter when he knocked Gradkowski to the ground just after he threw it. Geathers’ quick rush resulted in a three-yard loss for fullback Mike Alstott. But instead of second-and-13 from the 18, it was first down from the 9.

Geathers and Smith managed to each get a sack to raise their team-leading totals to five, but another roughing call on Geathers got waved off on the play. He did say his 15-yard facemask on Gradkowski was “legit,” but he was still wondering about the roughing call that stuck.

“We look at him as a ball carrier, just like any other guy that has the ball. When we get to him we want to make a play on him,” Geathers said. “I don’t think it was a penalty. I didn’t hit him with bad intentions or anything like that. (The ref) told me after that I shouldn’t have extended my arms.

“It’s just unfortunate for (the Smith call) like that to decide the game, he said.

“You really don’t know how to tackle the quarterback nowadays because at any given time they could throw a flag on you,” said Bengals cornerback Deltha O’Neal. “There’s no right and wrong way.”

That wasn’t the only call that had the Bengals going.

Or non-call.

There was a pass interference call that wasn’t whistled against Bucs cornerback Juran Bolden on wide receiver Kelley Washington in the red zone as the Bengals looked ready to seal it with a 10-point lead as the clock ticked under 12 minutes. The Bengals felt certain it was a penalty since they feel the only way Washington could have hurt his hamstring on that play is because Bolden hit him in the back early.

Washington never returned after the incompletion and the Bengals had to settle for a field goal.

And then there was the usually mild-mannered Carson Palmer erupting after a third-down incompletion to tight end Reggie Kelly, running up to the ref and pleading his case for a hold.

“Reggie was trying to run his route and he got tackled,” Palmer said. “I don’t understand why some calls aren’t made. I don’t want to comment until I see it on film.”

[derekshank]

And then there was the usually mild-mannered Carson Palmer erupting after a third-down incompletion to tight end Reggie Kelly, running up to the ref and pleading his case for a hold.

“Reggie was trying to run his route and he got tackled,” Palmer said. “I don’t understand why some calls aren’t made. I don’t want to comment until I see it on film.”

Yep... that pretty much says it all. I've never head Palmer say anything that could even come close to complaining about any call of any kind before. He always takes it on himself, and never passes blame. He's the last guy on the team (including Marvin Lewis) I expect complaining from, so for him to say even that really shows how badly this game was officiated.

We might not have played well, but we played well enough to win this game. Like the games against Houston and Green Bay last year. There's a big difference between an ugly win and a loss... and unfortunately, the difference happens to be the officials.

[Kazkal]

Hopfully team takes this in strike and comes back with firing knowing it should be a W.

[B24]

What day if the head official on Total Access? I want to make sure I DVR it just to see what they say about it if anything.

[Kazkal]

Sanders:How do you rough the passer on a sack?

Mooch:ugggggggggggggg

after games over

Sanders:someone in nfl please call me and tell me how you rough the passer on a sack at 555.

I dunno which day but ill be watching it everyday see this crap...I normally like the ref we had today but meh hes on my h8 list now.

[PMThor]

“(The ref) must have season tickets down here. I haven’t seen anything like that in my six years (in the NFL) where the game is changed like that. They’re not supposed to change the outcome.”

That is a finable offense from the league. You can't say that kind of stuff about the refs (even if it is correct)

“We look at him as a ball carrier, just like any other guy that has the ball. When we get to him we want to make a play on him,” Geathers said. “I don’t think it was a penalty. I didn’t hit him with bad intentions or anything like that. (The ref) told me after that I shouldn’t have extended my arms.

So which is it? Don't extend your arms, or don't lead with your head? I guess all defensive players should drop kick the QB ala WaterBoy.

This is getting ridiculous.

[Kazkal]

stupid refs dont want bengals resign justin lol.

[B24]

On the NFL Network's site it says the "Official Review" with Mike Pereira is on Wednesday if anyone wants to watch it.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

worst call ever

[Kazkal]

I will...I wish they had call ins lol.....fing more think about it more it bugs me......Even tampa fans I know saying it was a horrible call.

[greames]

That was pretty obvious then, if the opposing fans said it was a bad call.I think we should tell Carson to do

the same thing next game.Duck your head when your getting ready to be sacked and fall down put your head on the ground and see if the Refs calls it for us too.

[SkinneymulleT]

not to mention the no call on hands to carson's face on the play where the no hold was called on reggie. Watch the game again and you will see it.

[agreen_112]

It doesn't matter, I don't want to hear anymore excuses. We lost that game. We should've been able to handle the Buc's a lot easier than we did. They were 0-4. The game shouldn't have even been that close. Our offense is playing like s**t and the defense is playing like it has lost 2 starting LB's. The Bengals need to get it together and get us back up to 4-2, the buy weeks' over, it's time to make this run.

[Tasher]

The roughing call wont be on because it was an "unnecessary roughness" and those calls are judgement. Peira has said on numerous occassions that those calls are a when in doubt, throw the flag. so (and especially if the flag was wrong) it won't get discussed.

Besides, the Bengals should not put the game in the hands of the refs. We should have scored TDs on both our scoring opportunities and it would not have been an issue.

One thing is for sure, now the Bengals are REALLY MAD, so maybe they will come out and PLAY some football, instead of pansy-assing around.

[bengalboomer7]

It doesn't matter, I don't want to hear anymore excuses. We lost that game. We should've been able to handle the Buc's a lot easier than we did. They were 0-4. The game shouldn't have even been that close. Our offense is playing like s**t and the defense is playing like it has lost 2 starting LB's. The Bengals need to get it together and get us back up to 4-2, the buy weeks' over, it's time to make this run.

I think that's the first time we've agreed on anything. WHile that call was horrible (the Geathers one too) the bengals didn't come ready to play. False starts, offsides, penalties we're everywhere. The offense lost that game.

[SkinneymulleT]

The roughing call wont be on because it was an "unnecessary roughness" and those calls are judgement. Peira has said on numerous occassions that those calls are a when in doubt, throw the flag. so (and especially if the flag was wrong) it won't get discussed.

Besides, the Bengals should not put the game in the hands of the refs. We should have scored TDs on both our scoring opportunities and it would not have been an issue.

One thing is for sure, now the Bengals are REALLY MAD, so maybe they will come out and PLAY some football, instead of pansy-assing around.

STFU! You and those who choose this perspective sound like a bunch of naive highschool coaches. This isnt anyones fault but ours because we should be better and we didnt give it our all blah blah blah blah. Thats great if it motivates players but that is not reality. This is high stakes game with minimal margin for error. Much like in quantum physics, a small mistakes ripples throughout the universe. The bengals played hard, deserved to win even from an outsider perspective and got jobed by the refs which is likely La Cosa Nostra (NFL) hit job for the green hit and the bad pub by our players, and this was only a warning(losing game but only 1/2 game out 1st early season = kneecapped with a bat). Even if we only deserve to win by a little, it would still have been a w and to allow the refs to tip the balance repeatedly is unjust. They will review the play but will dismiss it as you say a"unecessary" judgment call and they were just trying protect the "China Dolls" and would someone please think of the children! and basically ignore it like the nfl does with everything negative, like throwing the superbowl to get higher ratings because most superbowls suck(and who are the seahawks?), HGH use, NFL color commentators and TO! I bet the Mother-F Gm from kc has laid into the commish so he gave orders to not allow the bengals to injure another quaterback. Word goes to the refs and they take it as word from above to flag the bengals heavy, thus the bucs get flagged light, and we get what we have here, which is a failure to communicate, some refs you just cant reach so you get what we have here today. I dont like it any better than you!

[Stripes]

The roughing call wont be on because it was an "unnecessary roughness" and those calls are judgement. Peira has said on numerous occassions that those calls are a when in doubt, throw the flag. so (and especially if the flag was wrong) it won't get discussed.

Besides, the Bengals should not put the game in the hands of the refs. We should have scored TDs on both our scoring opportunities and it would not have been an issue.

One thing is for sure, now the Bengals are REALLY MAD, so maybe they will come out and PLAY some football, instead of pansy-assing around.

STFU! You and those who choose this perspective sound like a bunch of naive highschool coaches. This isnt anyones fault but ours because we should be better and we didnt give it our all blah blah blah blah. Thats great if it motivates players but that is not reality. This is high stakes game with minimal margin for error. Much like in quantum physics, a small mistakes ripples throughout the universe. The bengals played hard, deserved to win even from an outsider perspective and got jobed by the refs which is likely La Cosa Nostra (NFL) hit job for the green hit and the bad pub by our players, and this was only a warning(losing game but only 1/2 game out 1st early season = kneecapped with a bat). Even if we only deserve to win by a little, it would still have been a w and to allow the refs to tip the balance repeatedly is unjust. They will review the play but will dismiss it as you say a"unecessary" judgment call and they were just trying protect the "China Dolls" and would someone please think of the children! and basically ignore it like the nfl does with everything negative, like throwing the superbowl to get higher ratings because most superbowls suck(and who are the seahawks?), HGH use, NFL color commentators and TO! I bet the Mother-F Gm from kc has laid into the commish so he gave orders to not allow the bengals to injure another quaterback. Word goes to the refs and they take it as word from above to flag the bengals heavy, thus the bucs get flagged light, and we get what we have here, which is a failure to communicate, some refs you just cant reach so you get what we have here today. I dont like it any better than you!

C'mon, that is a joke.

"The NFL is out to get the Bengals!"

I'm with Tasher. The Bengals did not deserve to win that game at all. The Bucs played harder, and had more heart. They won, and so it should be.

The call sucked, but that's part of the game. I am quite sure that had the tide been flipped, and Tampa Bay had been flagged for the EXACT same thing, and Bucs fans ran around crying about the game being fixed, you'd call them idiots.

[Tasher]

STFU! You and those who choose this perspective sound like a bunch of naive highschool coaches. This isnt anyones fault but ours because we should be better and we didnt give it our all blah blah blah blah. Thats great if it motivates players but that is not reality. This is high stakes game with minimal margin for error. Much like in quantum physics, a small mistakes ripples throughout the universe. The bengals played hard, deserved to win even from an outsider perspective and got jobed by the refs which is likely La Cosa Nostra (NFL) hit job for the green hit and the bad pub by our players, and this was only a warning(losing game but only 1/2 game out 1st early season = kneecapped with a bat). Even if we only deserve to win by a little, it would still have been a w and to allow the refs to tip the balance repeatedly is unjust. They will review the play but will dismiss it as you say a"unecessary" judgment call and they were just trying protect the "China Dolls" and would someone please think of the children! and basically ignore it like the nfl does with everything negative, like throwing the superbowl to get higher ratings because most superbowls suck(and who are the seahawks?), HGH use, NFL color commentators and TO! I bet the Mother-F Gm from kc has laid into the commish so he gave orders to not allow the bengals to injure another quaterback. Word goes to the refs and they take it as word from above to flag the bengals heavy, thus the bucs get flagged light, and we get what we have here, which is a failure to communicate, some refs you just cant reach so you get what we have here today. I dont like it any better than you!

Dude, what is STFU? Lighten up a little ROOK! Sorry if you don't like the analysis, that is just they way I see it and just about exactly what the NFL would say, ya da ya da ya da.

Did anything change about the officiating in the playoffs last year? Has the NFL EVER reverse course and compensated or corrected a call? Officiating is PART OF THE GAME, and is done by HUMAN BEINGS that make MISTAKES just like everyone else. If you can't stomach it, don't watch, and don't come around here with name calling and other attacks on the fans on this board. We are all in a bad enough mood to begin with.

Thanks for playing, no go away.

That is all.

[johnstownsteel]

I had the chance to see that play this morning. That was one of the poorest calls all season and the ref should be held accountable.

[Kazkal]

BARBER POLL: The Bengals weren’t the only people who thought the refs made a brutal call on that roughing-the-passer flag on Justin Smith with 2:45 left in the 14-13 loss in Tampa that made a hero out of rookie quarterback Bruce Gradkowski.

“"Mike Carey probably calls that more than anybody in the league,” said Bucs cornerback Ronde Barber. “ I've seen him throw that a few times. What can you do? I thought it was a bad call, to be quite honest with you.

"I think Bruce kind of balled up for him. Again, thought it was a bad call. I've lost quite a few games on bad calls, so be it. They still had a fourth-and 4-they could have stopped. They didn’t do it."”

[Ox]

I had the chance to see that play this morning. That was one of the poorest calls all season and the ref should be held accountable.

Well the job of the ref is to call the penalties, not influence the outcome of the game. And influence the game is what they did. And you're right, it was one of the worst calls I've ever seen.

[Kazkal]

Besides, the Bengals should not put the game in the hands of the refs.

They wearn't trying too justin made a play at a critical time that everyone would be praising if he dident get screwed on it.people say we might as well loss even if we won because of the way we played....thats bullcrap if we won no one would be saying we should have loss.

[SkinneymulleT]

STFU! You and those who choose this perspective sound like a bunch of naive highschool coaches. This isnt anyones fault but ours because we should be better and we didnt give it our all blah blah blah blah. Thats great if it motivates players but that is not reality. This is high stakes game with minimal margin for error. Much like in quantum physics, a small mistakes ripples throughout the universe. The bengals played hard, deserved to win even from an outsider perspective and got jobed by the refs which is likely La Cosa Nostra (NFL) hit job for the green hit and the bad pub by our players, and this was only a warning(losing game but only 1/2 game out 1st early season = kneecapped with a bat). Even if we only deserve to win by a little, it would still have been a w and to allow the refs to tip the balance repeatedly is unjust. They will review the play but will dismiss it as you say a"unecessary" judgment call and they were just trying protect the "China Dolls" and would someone please think of the children! and basically ignore it like the nfl does with everything negative, like throwing the superbowl to get higher ratings because most superbowls suck(and who are the seahawks?), HGH use, NFL color commentators and TO! I bet the Mother-F Gm from kc has laid into the commish so he gave orders to not allow the bengals to injure another quaterback. Word goes to the refs and they take it as word from above to flag the bengals heavy, thus the bucs get flagged light, and we get what we have here, which is a failure to communicate, some refs you just cant reach so you get what we have here today. I dont like it any better than you!

Dude, what is STFU? Lighten up a little ROOK! Sorry if you don't like the analysis, that is just they way I see it and just about exactly what the NFL would say, ya da ya da ya da.

Did anything change about the officiating in the playoffs last year? Has the NFL EVER reverse course and compensated or corrected a call? Officiating is PART OF THE GAME, and is done by HUMAN BEINGS that make MISTAKES just like everyone else. If you can't stomach it, don't watch, and don't come around here with name calling and other attacks on the fans on this board. We are all in a bad enough mood to begin with.

Thanks for playing, no go away.

That is all.

Who called anyone a name? I think called me a "rook" and tried to be a censorship bully with your arguement "I was here first so this is mine yard if I dont like what you say you cannot play here". You sound like your 12. Trying to define a discussion by making things up and any critism becomes an attack on america. Is this Dick Cheney? Clearly, the easiest way to show superficiality of an argument is to refuse to discuss it and to try make it ad hominem. Grow up little man. This is public board where anyone who follows the rules can post thier opinion. No where did i see the caveat "except when you say so". BTW VETERAN EMERITUS, the officiating was changed after last years playoff, in atleast by carson's rule, and the decision to allow play to continue after the whistle so that it may be reviewed and repeating what you heard other people say is not "analysis". And why do you think you are annoited to speak for everyone? I must have missed that box during registration. So please, I beg of you, dont do so for me. My only mistake was to assume that the subtle outlandish of my statement would be taken largely its sarcastic flavor. I was wrong and next time i will try to be more direct so as to not offend one like yourself who may be unwilling, yet unable to detect such. And as for the conspiracy theory, I stand by that! (sarcasim intended) and the bengals deserved to win the game(no sarcasm intended but may be found) . Sorry to offend , but If you dont like what i say dont read it.

[Tasher]

Who called anyone a name? I think called me a "rook" and tried to be a censorship bully with your arguement "I was here first so this is mine yard if I dont like what you say you cannot play here". You sound like your 12. Trying to define a discussion by making things up and any critism becomes an attack on america. Is this Dick Cheney? Clearly, the easiest way to show superficiality of an argument is to refuse to discuss it and to try make it ad hominem. Grow up little man. This is public board where anyone who follows the rules can post thier opinion. No where did i see the caveat "except when you say so". BTW VETERAN EMERITUS, the officiating was changed after last years playoff, in atleast by carson's rule, and the decision to allow play to continue after the whistle so that it may be reviewed and repeating what you heard other people say is not "analysis". And why do you think you are annoited to speak for everyone? I must have missed that box during registration. So please, I beg of you, dont do so for me. My only mistake was to assume that the subtle outlandish of my statement would be taken largely its sarcastic flavor. I was wrong and next time i will try to be more direct so as to not offend one like yourself who may be unwilling, yet unable to detect such. And as for the conspiracy theory, I stand by that! (sarcasim intended) and the bengals deserved to win the game(no sarcasm intended but may be found) . Sorry to offend , but If you dont like what i say dont read it.

Is this english?

[Walrus]

STFU! You and those who choose this perspective sound like a bunch of naive highschool coaches. This isnt anyones fault but ours because we should be better and we didnt give it our all blah blah blah blah. Thats great if it motivates players but that is not reality. This is high stakes game with minimal margin for error. Much like in quantum physics, a small mistakes ripples throughout the universe. The bengals played hard, deserved to win even from an outsider perspective and got jobed by the refs which is likely La Cosa Nostra (NFL) hit job for the green hit and the bad pub by our players, and this was only a warning(losing game but only 1/2 game out 1st early season = kneecapped with a bat). Even if we only deserve to win by a little, it would still have been a w and to allow the refs to tip the balance repeatedly is unjust. They will review the play but will dismiss it as you say a"unecessary" judgment call and they were just trying protect the "China Dolls" and would someone please think of the children! and basically ignore it like the nfl does with everything negative, like throwing the superbowl to get higher ratings because most superbowls suck(and who are the seahawks?), HGH use, NFL color commentators and TO! I bet the Mother-F Gm from kc has laid into the commish so he gave orders to not allow the bengals to injure another quaterback. Word goes to the refs and they take it as word from above to flag the bengals heavy, thus the bucs get flagged light, and we get what we have here, which is a failure to communicate, some refs you just cant reach so you get what we have here today. I dont like it any better than you!

Dude, what is STFU? Lighten up a little ROOK! Sorry if you don't like the analysis, that is just they way I see it and just about exactly what the NFL would say, ya da ya da ya da.

Did anything change about the officiating in the playoffs last year? Has the NFL EVER reverse course and compensated or corrected a call? Officiating is PART OF THE GAME, and is done by HUMAN BEINGS that make MISTAKES just like everyone else. If you can't stomach it, don't watch, and don't come around here with name calling and other attacks on the fans on this board. We are all in a bad enough mood to begin with.

Thanks for playing, no go away.

That is all.

Who called anyone a name? I think called me a "rook" and tried to be a censorship bully with your arguement "I was here first so this is mine yard if I dont like what you say you cannot play here". You sound like your 12. Trying to define a discussion by making things up and any critism becomes an attack on america. Is this Dick Cheney? Clearly, the easiest way to show superficiality of an argument is to refuse to discuss it and to try make it ad hominem. Grow up little man. This is public board where anyone who follows the rules can post thier opinion. No where did i see the caveat "except when you say so". BTW VETERAN EMERITUS, the officiating was changed after last years playoff, in atleast by carson's rule, and the decision to allow play to continue after the whistle so that it may be reviewed and repeating what you heard other people say is not "analysis". And why do you think you are annoited to speak for everyone? I must have missed that box during registration. So please, I beg of you, dont do so for me. My only mistake was to assume that the subtle outlandish of my statement would be taken largely its sarcastic flavor. I was wrong and next time i will try to be more direct so as to not offend one like yourself who may be unwilling, yet unable to detect such. And as for the conspiracy theory, I stand by that! (sarcasim intended) and the bengals deserved to win the game(no sarcasm intended but may be found) . Sorry to offend , but If you dont like what i say dont read it.

This you might be here very good point you make if only English in which is written. Maybe quantum physics I need to learn more.