Think Jumpy will get fined?

[derekshank]

Love seeing steeler fans nervous already. Love it.

Pittsburgh has specialized in those kind of border-line dirty hits for years. They revel in it. And so does their fanbase. About time Cincy's D joined that party. Can't wait to lay a few of those on Steelers players for a change.

Who's nervous? The Steelers play as physical a defense as there is in the game. They're not taught to take cheapshots. Maybe Joey Porter would take that a bit far at times, but never to the point where he's trying to intentionlly injury someone in my opinion. If Lewis feels he needs to match that by teaching his players to play a certain way, I'm sure Cowher would be flattered. Perhaps this dummy Geathers took it to the next level because he's too stupid to know the difference between physical and dirty play.

I find it funny that Bengals fans chastise the Steelers for supposed dirty play, but when someone on your team cracks a sliding QB you're very quick to defend it. Had this been a Steeler laying a hit on a defenseless QB this board would be up in arms.

Good God man. If you really think that Joey Porter, or any other Steeler for that matter, wouldn't take that hit on Palmer if the opportunity was there, you're delusional. They make their livings off of diving at QB's in the same instant that he slides.

The idea that Marvin is teaching his defense to play dirty is laughable. Every defender takes a shot at the QB when the opportunity is there. You want to get in their heads. That's what defenders do. To think that this was simply a Bengal playing dirty is silly. It's the way the game is played. If there is a problem, it's the way the games are called.

The ref standing right there felt no desire to throw the flag. The Chiefs players around the play didn't get mad at Geathers, which they would have had they felt it was a dirty hit. The coach wasn't irate when no penalty was called. When you watch it in slow motion, it's easy to point out the time he had for hesitation... but in live game speed, no one felt he was in the wrong.

The problem with the play is something you see in nearly every game in the NFL. It doesn't often end in injury... but that's just luck. This is the way the game is played right now... and it needs to be changed. But in the meantime, you can't say it was over the top dirty. It was merely questionable... the same kind of questionable that takes place in every single game.

[duus]

It was merely questionable... the same kind of questionable that takes place in every single game.

Exactly. That's the reasonable approach while evaluating hits like this. I've seen hits exactly like this many, many times. The issue with this one is that he had sort of a 'double hit' in that his head not only made contact with the other play, but also with the ground. That's where things get bad in terms of injury.

[Jet23]

IMO Jumpy did not intentionally hurt TG, but a flag was in order. Are they going to protect the qbs or just talk about it. Let's face it, had Carson been done like that, this board would have been lit up.

I do think it funny that a Steeler fan has anything at all to add to this topic.

[dez0923]

but even Bengals fans have to admit it was a bitch move.

No, actually I don't have to admit it was a bitch move. Green went into his slide to late and paid the price. All I have to admit is that I hope he's ok and think it's unfortunate, but I won't make any apologies for one of our defensive players who made a legal hit on a guy who didn't think to GET DOWN quick enough...

WHODEY !!!

Yeah, how dare he slide against the Bengals, a sign of submission and contention with the yardage earned. How dare you try to take the right way out? The Bengals won't have that. Sitting duck? Who cares, it just makes our celebration bigger when we lay you out.

Oh yeah, he paid the price all right. . the price of playing an a**h*** who went full-out on a defenseless QB.

Btw bud, it is illegal to hit a sliding QB, it's just that since he was being grazed in the back by a Chief, they have to constitute that as a block.

[derekshank]

Btw bud, it is illegal to hit a sliding QB

Yep. So tell me, why was there no penalty? Why was there no outrage by the KC sideline? Was was there no O-lineman going over to start a fight with Geathers. These are the kinds of things that happen every time a player hit a sliding QB late.

Case in point... It happened when Batch was grazed when he slid on Thursday night. Roethlisberger almost ran out on the field to complain. Most of the sideline erupted with anger, and the Steelers players got in the face of the guy who tried to hit him.

None of that happened here. Why? Because in live game speed, no one thought the hit was late. It just happened to be incredibly vicious. If the hit being very violent was illegal, then the entire Bears defense is going to get penalties for the way they treated Favre yesterday.

When you watch the play in live speed, it's brutal, but doesn't appear dirty. Get off it. The problem lies with the rule... not this isolated incident, because these types of plays happen all the time. Most QB's are just more fortunate than Green was.

[Wraith]

To appease Peterson and the Chiefs fans, Geathers will be fined but the team will probably pay the fine for him.

The difference in my mind between the Geathers hit and Kimo's is that Kimo's came significantly after the ball was released from Palmer's hand. Geathers launched a split second before Green started to slide, there was no way to stop his momentum at that point and Kennison's clip didn't help matters. Geathers did what he could by moving his head away from the point of impact and attempting to hit Green's shoulder pad.

This You-tube video clearly shows the hit in slow motion and clearly shows geather atering the Point of attack away from Green's head.

[dez0923]

Btw bud, it is illegal to hit a sliding QB

Yep. So tell me, why was there no penalty? Why was there no outrage by the KC sideline? Was was there no O-lineman going over to start a fight with Geathers. These are the kinds of things that happen every time a player hit a sliding QB late.

Case in point... It happened when Batch was grazed when he slid on Thursday night. Roethlisberger almost ran out on the field to complain. Most of the sideline erupted with anger, and the Steelers players got in the face of the guy who tried to hit him.

None of that happened here. Why? Because in live game speed, no one thought the hit was late. It just happened to be incredibly vicious. If the hit being very violent was illegal, then the entire Bears defense is going to get penalties for the way they treated Favre yesterday.

When you watch the play in live speed, it's brutal, but doesn't appear dirty. Get off it. The problem lies with the rule... not this isolated incident, because these types of plays happen all the time. Most QB's are just more fortunate than Green was.

There wasn't a penalty because he was being touched by the KC player. They can't call it because his hands were on his back. So technically, it WASN'T a penalty. Now, the hit on Batch was intentionally and he was unblocked. The refs didn't see it that way. Batch was ok, no harm, no foul I guess.

It wasn't illegal, but it was dirty. Tell me, out of all the times you've fallen down in your life, how many of them did you use your shoulder and not your hands to brace your impact? 0. He intentionally geared for a hit, it's plain to see.

Now, out of all the mistakes you've made in your life, how many of those times did you get up and dance afterwards? 0. Case closed. He meant to hit him and then celebrated afterwards. I think he was too stupid to realize that what he did was wrong until he say Green laid out. Then he stopped celebrating so he wouldn't get fined. Mhmm. . .

[BengalChamps]

If what Kimo did last year did not warrant a flag or fine, then Jumpy's hit does not deserve it either. As Worthlesberger said, "If he's coming low its dirty". This was vicious but clean. Green waited a second to late to start the slide.

[duus]

Case closed.

Case closed? Really. That easy? That alone speaks of a bias. You refuse to look at this with open eyes. Why should we bother evaluating information from a person who looks at something blindfolded?

[CT Stiller]

Btw bud, it is illegal to hit a sliding QB

Yep. So tell me, why was there no penalty? Why was there no outrage by the KC sideline? Was was there no O-lineman going over to start a fight with Geathers. These are the kinds of things that happen every time a player hit a sliding QB late.

Case in point... It happened when Batch was grazed when he slid on Thursday night. Roethlisberger almost ran out on the field to complain. Most of the sideline erupted with anger, and the Steelers players got in the face of the guy who tried to hit him.

None of that happened here. Why? Because in live game speed, no one thought the hit was late. It just happened to be incredibly vicious. If the hit being very violent was illegal, then the entire Bears defense is going to get penalties for the way they treated Favre yesterday.

When you watch the play in live speed, it's brutal, but doesn't appear dirty. Get off it. The problem lies with the rule... not this isolated incident, because these types of plays happen all the time. Most QB's are just more fortunate than Green was.

No one knows for sure why there was no outrage or if the producers chose to focus on the injured player rather than on any scuffles that were taking place on the side. That would logically be the right thing to do in that situation. Since Batch wasn't injured, they showed the Steelers' sideline and the team was pissed. My personal opinion on that hit was that there was no way Zach Thomas could have avoided it.

But using your logic, why weren't more Bengals players screaming their heads off when Carson went down in the playoffs last year? Hell, it seems to be the consensus on this board that it was definitely a cheapshot, but I don't remember anyone except maybe Perry having a problem with the hit during the game. If it was indeed a dirty hit, again by your own logic, there should have been outrage on the field and the Bengals' sideline.

Let's face it, the game moves fast and it's not always obvious that a hit was late or cheap or whatever. No one can say that something was intentional or not except the player. But from an outside point of view, and I would think this if it were a Jets player or a Rams player or a Steelers player, it looked like he was aiming for the guy. Whether it was helmet-to-helmet or not (I don't think it was) is a moot point. The real issue here is that he intentionally slammed the guy when he was clearly going into a slide a good 7 yards in front of him. He had the time to at least fall to the side or try to avoid the collision, and he didn't. He aimed for him.

[derekshank]

There wasn't a penalty because he was being touched by the KC player. They can't call it because his hands were on his back. So technically, it WASN'T a penalty. Now, the hit on Batch was intentionally and he was unblocked. The refs didn't see it that way. Batch was ok, no harm, no foul I guess.

It wasn't illegal, but it was dirty. Tell me, out of all the times you've fallen down in your life, how many of them did you use your shoulder and not your hands to brace your impact? 0. He intentionally geared for a hit, it's plain to see.

Now, out of all the mistakes you've made in your life, how many of those times did you get up and dance afterwards? 0. Case closed. He meant to hit him and then celebrated afterwards. I think he was too stupid to realize that what he did was wrong until he say Green laid out. Then he stopped celebrating so he wouldn't get fined. Mhmm. . .

I never said he didn't try to hit him. It's clear that he did... and if you read my posts, you'll see that I think the hit was questionable. But it is no more questionable than every other hit a QB takes while sliding. Very rarely do QB's slide and not get touched at all. Only the ones who slide so far in advance, that no one can get to them. This is what Green should have done... but he didn't. This is what most QB's should do... but they don't, and they get hit.

Also... you don't know his motives. He stopped celebrating when he found out Green was injured. He immediately got up when the ball was loose, because he thought it might be a fumble, and when the play was called dead, he celebrated the fact that he hit the QB so hard. He didn't stop to avoid a fine... because at that point, he had no reason to believe he would be fined.

[CT Stiller]

The difference in my mind between the Geathers hit and Kimo's is that Kimo's came significantly after the ball was released from Palmer's hand. Geathers launched a split second before Green started to slide, there was no way to stop his momentum at that point and Kennison's clip didn't help matters. Geathers did what he could by moving his head away from the point of impact and attempting to hit Green's shoulder pad.

Oh my god, I hope you're kidding. Kimo was shoved by Steinbach, had his head down and hit Palmer maybe a 1/2 second after he threw it, if that. Geather was staring right at Green as he was sliding and decided to plow into him anyway. That's the difference between the two hits. Man, you guys are a riot.

[BlainThePain]

On Sports Center, Merril Hodge and Salisbury both just said that the hit was clean because Green slid too late and they said it would be a travesty if Geathers got fined.

[membengal]

Interesting take from them...especially considering they both played and one at quarterback.

[CT Stiller]

Also... you don't know his motives. He stopped celebrating when he found out Green was injured. He immediately got up when the ball was loose, because he thought it might be a fumble, and when the play was called dead, he celebrated the fact that he hit the QB so hard. He didn't stop to avoid a fine... because at that point, he had no reason to believe he would be fined.

What I find so suspect about this was that he hit a 34 year old immobile QB after he got the first down, and yet still got up and jumped around like an idiot. Do you normally see players celebrating a tackle of a running back after he just ran 8 yards for the first down?

[derekshank]

On Sports Center, Merril Hodge and Salisbury both just said that the hit was clean because Green slid too late and they said it would be a travesty if Geathers got fined.

There you go. Hoge is a Steeler homer through and through, and has no reason to defend the Bengals. Salisbury is a guy who has been bashing the Bengals and their character woes the entire off-season. You'd think that both of them would jump on the chance to bash them if they thought it was justified. Unbiased Colts fans around here say the hit was clean. Why is it that all the Steelers fans are coming around with their agenda's? Perhaps their conscience is bothering them.

[duus]

On Sports Center, Merril Hodge and Salisbury both just said that the hit was clean because Green slid too late and they said it would be a travesty if Geathers got fined.

There you go. Hoge is a Steeler homer through and through, and has no reason to defend the Bengals. Salisbury is a guy who has been bashing the Bengals and their character woes the entire off-season. You'd think that both of them would jump on the chance to bash them if they thought it was justified. Unbiased Colts fans around here say the hit was clean. Why is it that all the Steelers fans are coming around with their agenda's? Perhaps their conscience is bothering them.

I've said a couple times already this morning on this board that all national media types have said clearly that nothing was wrong with the hit. All they have continued to say is that the slide was initiated way too late.

Not good enough for the real experts out there ... Pissburghers. Give me a break.

[San Antonio Bengal]

Not that it matters, but the current ESPN.com poll about whether Jumpy should be fined is right now at: 44% yes; 56% no. The ESPN article still refers to it being a helmet-to-helmet hit even though it clearly wasn't.

[PMThor]

What I find so suspect about this was that he hit a 34 year old immobile QB after he got the first down, and yet still got up and jumped around like an idiot. Do you normally see players celebrating a tackle of a running back after he just ran 8 yards for the first down?

Look again there CT. Geathers thought the ball came loose, and that he had recovered it. Thus the celebration.

Also, on that point, since Geathers thought that he had recovered the ball, doesn't that usually mean that the guy who originally had the ball was still in play at the time when the ball came loose? It usually favors that angle....

Clean hard hit. No flag.

[Edogger]

It doesn't matter if his knee was sliding ON THE GROUND yet or not. Once a QB begins to slide feet first he's off limits no matter what. And yes, Bill Bob is correct - he did look right at him as he was beginning his slide and then slammed into him.

Of course he looked right at him just before making a tackle! Good work, Captain Obvious!

Geathers was already lunging and being pushed by the receiver when Green began his slide... Even the damned play by play guys (they're unbiased! You should try it!) said there was no way Geathers could have stopped.

I'm as unbiased as they come. A similar play took place when Zach Thomas hit Batch the other night, but he had no way of avoiding the hit so I didn't think it was a cheapshot. This guy Geathers had already shed the block of the receiver and was going for the hit even though Green had already began his slide. My point is, if he's looking right at him and he sees him going into the slide motion, he's supposed to avoid the hit at all costs, the QB is essentially helpless at that point. This type of hit is different than the Ben/Carson hits because those were in the pocket where it's not obvious to the defender if the ball is gone or not. In this case Geathers saw the action in front of him, knew Green was sliding and slammed him anyway. That's the definition of a cheapshot, my friends.

I think I am pretty unbias as well. Correct me if I am wrong. I think the hit will have a fine attached to it. Do I think it was a cheapshot, no. Do I think it was dirty, no. But because the NFL is trying to save the endangered species of QB's in the league, I am sure it will be reviewed and fined. Do I agree with it. Not a chance. It always seems that when a QB now a days scrambles and decides to slide, they wait until the last possible minute to initiate the slide. Which I understand they are trying to get the last few yards or inches they can, but at the same time they know they are protected under that rule and abuse it. If you are going to slide, by all means slide, but when you (the QB) hesitates and slides last minute like Green did, be prepared to take a hit. If anything QB's should be required to immediately lay on the ground and play dead. This way the defenders can just jump or leap over them without worry of hitting them and getting fined.

At the same time, Geathers should have attempted to avoid Green, but if he would have done this...would he have went helmet to helmet with Green. Since he was "shoved" by the receiver, I think that last little boost of momentum was wouldn't have prevented Geathers to completely miss Green and may have taken his head off.

Geathers was in a lose, lose situation and unfortunately Green was hurt in the process. I hope Green makes a speedy recovery! I always hate to see this happen...

[SkinneymulleT]

This is like throwing yourself under a train and blaming the engineer!

[Jonboat]

Also... you don't know his motives. He stopped celebrating when he found out Green was injured. He immediately got up when the ball was loose, because he thought it might be a fumble, and when the play was called dead, he celebrated the fact that he hit the QB so hard. He didn't stop to avoid a fine... because at that point, he had no reason to believe he would be fined.

What I find so suspect about this was that he hit a 34 year old immobile QB after he got the first down, and yet still got up and jumped around like an idiot. Do you normally see players celebrating a tackle of a running back after he just ran 8 yards for the first down?

Haven't you ever seen a receiver get jacked up down the field by a defender & celebrate even though the receiver held onto the ball I hate to see him get hurt but these guys get paid & trained to hit hard. Look @ Wraiths post it clearly shows Geathers turning so he wouldn't hit him with his helmet, if he was taking/trained to take a cheapshot he would've lead with his helmet.

What the hell does his age got to do with anything ? would it make you feel better if he was out there with Depends on just so everyone knows he's an old man & can't scramble. Sheesh gimme a break... the guy is a very good QB . Hope to see him recover & come back next week.

[markymark69]

Would be disappointed if he was. Based on many things written earlier, no penalty, Kimo, Green slid late, etc. At the time Green slid, Geathers was already into his dive, it is not possible to have a 260-plus pound man running at full speed to stop that quickly and when you add that he was pushed from behind (only slightly), it would be unfair for that to cost Geathers some coin. Another quick point, he did not lead with his helmet, despite what Herm Edwards said, he tucked his head and led with his shoulder.

It's unfortunate and I hope Green is okay and gets back to playing. But, just as was the case with Carson and Kimo. It's a part of the game.

[HoosierCat]

Latest on Green from espn:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?i...e=ESPNHeadlines

Out at least 2 games.

Edited to add: if they mean two weeks, that would actually be just 1 game, vs. Denver. Chiefs have a bye in week 3. And the have San Fran and Arizona in weeks 4 and 5.

[HoTbOy]

Hope that TGreen is ok, he is a class act...the hit was not dirty, RGeathers was already committed, plus pushed in the back...should he be fined? NO will he? YES just to set an example to the rest of the NFL to back off the QB if it seems he is committing himself or sliding...I hope that RGeathers has another one left for wk 3...