Frostee Rucker Vs. Eric Henderson

[WretchedOne]

I just don't see why, where a player was drafted is so improtant. Expecially when that player has injury issues.

Look at Rob Wright, fell all the way to the 7th round because of rotator cuff injury. PEOPLE WHO ARE INJURED WILL NOT GET DRAFTED THAT HIGH.

And a guy who's currently injured and has a history will have worse luck and go undrafted.

Don't you get the simple fact the THE ONLY reason Eric didn't get drafted is because of his injuries? Everyone seems to have this preconcived notion that since's he's UDFA he's crap and thats just not true.

If you wanna be a douche and say "look at AC, look at Jason Allen"...yeah, those guys were RETURNING from injury and were not currently injured. Both those players have been medically cleard.

A number of peole just don't care about Henderson simply based on the fact that he was UDFA which is pathetic.

Why do I even bother, Hasn't Whur proven time and time again that he has no clue about this organization? Or the players on this team?, or the kind of players Marvin likes?

That explains your comments about Eric. Nevermind the stats, Nevermind his character, nevermind anything but where he was taken. Pull your head out of your ass and wake up.

You look like a TOOL sitting there telling me that Rucker is better when Eric produced more in college and I'VE PROVEN that fact, numerous times. Whatever you think is so great about Ruckers, I GUARANTEE that I can have a better comeback with Eric.

Whur will be one of these people who HATES on Eric but when Marvin comes out an starts gushing over eric, he'll be running back here saying "I KNEW Eric was good player..."

[kingwilly]

I am not really arguing with you....BUT there are a number of players who got drafted, some prett highly, who are recently or currently injured.

You've already mentioned AC and Jason Allen and Wright.

Kellen Clemens...bad ankle, missed most of last year.

LenDale WHite...a hammy so bad even honey baked couldn't help.

John Jolly...needs surgery

Fred Matua..bad knee, slipped far..

Henderson got hurt alot but whne he wasn't he ws very productive...that is a fact...I'm surprised someone did not roll the dice on him but since noone did it raises questions....about as surprised we woud waste an r3 on Frostee...

[WretchedOne]

2005 College Football Season. (Note: All Bowl games that each player participated in will be added into the stats for each player and season)

Eric Henderson:

Missed 4.5 games due to Injury. DNP against Uconn, VT, NC State, Duke and ½ of the Utah game.

Started and Appeared in 7.5 games.

Sacks Against:

Auburn (1)

Clemson (2)

Wake Forest (1)

Virgina (1)

Miami (1)

Season Totals: 28 Total Tackles, 8.5 TFLs and 6 sacks.

Frostee Rucker:

Started and Appeared in 13 games.

Sacks Against:

Arkansas (2.5)

Oregon (1)

Az. State (.5)

Washington (1.5)

UCLA (1)

Season Totals: 58 TTs, 14 TFLs and 6.5 Sacks.

Averages for each player (per game, as a starter.):

Henderson: 3.75 TTs, 1.13 TFLs, .80 sacks

Rucker: 4.46 TTs, 1.07 TFLs, .50 sacks.

2004 College Football Season.

Eric Henderson: (what MUST be noted about this season for Eric is that he spent more time DROPPING INTO COVERAGE than rushing the passer. This is why his sack stats are low.

Missed 3 games due to injury. DNP against Stanford, Clemson and UNC. Did not start but played injured against Syracuse.

Started in 8 games, Appeared in 9 games.

Sacks Against:

Miami (.5)

Maryland (1.5)

Georgia (1)

Season Totals: 41 TTs, 12 TFLs and 3 sacks.

Frostee Rucker:

Started 12 games, Appeared in 13 games.

Sacks Against:

Cal (1)

Az. State (1)

UCLA (.5)

Season Totals: 29 TTs, 7.5 TFLs, 2.5 sacks.

Averages for each player (per game, as a starter)

Henderson: 4.87 TTs, 1.25 TFLs, .375 sacks

Rucker: 2.25 TFLs, .541 TFLs, .208 sacks.

2003 College Football Season:

Eric Henderson:

Started and Appeared in 13 games.

Sacks Against:

BYU (1)

Auburn (3)

Clemson (2)

Wake Forest (1)

Maryland (2)

Duke (1)

North Carolina (1)

Tulsa (1)

Season Totals: 49 TTs, 24 TFLs, 12 sacks

Frostee Rucker:

Started 5 games, Appeared in 12 games.

I don’t feel like going back and searching for when Frostee got his sacks cause it’s a waste of time. When I do the averages, I’ll give Frostee the benefit of having his 1.5 come when he was starting

Season Stats: 25 TTs, 4 TFLs, 1.5 sacks.

Average for each player (per game, as a starter)

Henderson: 4.08 TTs, 1.84 TFLs, .923 sacks.

Rucker:2.8 TTs, .5 TFLs, .30 sacks.

2002 College Football Season.

Eric Henderson: Eric started the last 6 games for Georgia Tech.

Registering: 34 TTs, 6 TFLs, 3 sacks as a starter.

So…lets now compare Rucker’s and Henderson’s sack stats (as starters)

Eric: In 33.5 games as a starter, Eric registered 24 sacks.

That comes out to .716 sacks per game when starting.

Frostee: In 30 games as a starter, Frostee registered 10.5 sacks.

That comes out to .350 sacks per game when starting.

Eric Henderson…WAS TWICE AS PRODUCTIVE AS FROSTEE RUCKER IN GETTING SACKS when both were starters during a game.

And Eric was doing this againt consistantly BETTER competition. Guys like Ferguson, McNeil, and Winston for starters....

The simplicity of all this…

Eric > Frostee.

This is how it goes....

Eric has an injury history. He participated in the East/West Shrine game and then was reported to be working with a trainer for the combine.

At this point in time, during the E/W Game, Eric is pretty much a concensus late 2nd, 3rd round draft prospect because of his injury history, ONLY. He would have been EVEN more highly rated without the injuries.

Then Eric drops a barbell on his toes and screws them up. He now can't participte at the combine or the pro-day. The NFL does not see his "barbell incident" like they should, an accident.

Intead, Eric is just now seen as a player who has a history of injuries with a CURRENT injury and yes, he is GOING to PLUMMET down teams boards.

Eric Henderson, had he not screwed up his toes, would have been drafted early on Day 1.

Should I mention Eric set the GT TFL record with 59.5 as well?

And we got him as a UDFA....

What a steal

[bengalboomer7]

Relax, we got him.

We'll know by training camp who's the better player. I'll let Marvin answer it for me.

[WretchedOne]

I know I should "chill", but between my excitement of having him, the people who are hating on Eric and my daytime boredom...

There really is NOTHING better to do. (expecially when the g/f takes the car to work all day)

It's very informative though, you've got to admit.

[HoosierCat]

Relax, we got him.

Per Hobson, apparently not. The official list o' UDFA's is up on the site and Henderson isn't listed. Bummer for wretched.

[Walrus]

Sheesh. Anyone else sick of hearing the same arguments over and over??

I'm looking for a reason to believe that Frostee Rucker will be a good football player. I've seen stats and video, heard arguments from you guys. Basically the one thing that I hear about him -- and apparently the only thing many Bengal fans need to hear -- is that Marvin Lewis picked him in the 3rd round. Case closed.

*shrug*

Can't argue with that. Based on the players still available at that point, you have to believe that this is Marvin's guy.

But, like Marvin says, "My eyes see better than my ears". (...or something like that.)

Oops, that would be "I see better than I hear". Yeah. Something like that.

[Stripes]

You look like a TOOL sitting there telling me that Rucker is better when Eric produced more in college and I'VE PROVEN that fact, numerous times.

You look like a TOOL when you indirectly swear to all the high Heavens that you are better scout for defensive ends than are Marvin and his crew (all your "know it all" capital letters make that fact more than evident, please don't bother denying it).

Obviously statistics are not an argument worth making, because if they were... Eric would have been drafted, regardless of injury. A player with such obvious upside never goes undrafted and probably makes it to the first round - see Willis McGahee.

Hell, we may not even have Henderson as was previously reported. Thank God, may it be the end of the capital letters. (no offense to GoGo, she can't help it!)

Whatever you think is so great about Ruckers, I GUARANTEE that I can have a better comeback with Eric.

Eric likes Barney.

[HairOnFire]

I know I should "chill", but between my excitement of having him, the people who are hating on Eric and my daytime boredom...

Please, if you're bored try masturbating more. Ultimately it's more satisfying than arguing on the internet. But shut your piehole about people hating on Eric Henderson. Your entire reason for existing seems to revolve around taking cheap shots at Frostee Rucker. He's a prospect. They liked enough of what he offers to use a late 3rd round pick on him....because they think they can develope him. And past stats detailing college glory count for exactly NOTHING now.

Frankly, I really like the idea of getting Eric Henderson without spending a draft pick. I feel good about it. But nothing about any of this Rucker vs. Henderson crap makes me want to start hating on Rucker without giving him a chance.

[Whur CHad At?]

Hahahahahahaahah we didnt even sign him hahahahahahah!

Remember when Wretch had Henderson as our first round pick in one of his 10,000 mock drafts....hahahahahahahaahha

[Stripes]

If we didn't sign him, that is a bummer regardless of the above arguments.

[Bengalbob]

Hahahahahahaahah we didnt even sign him hahahahahahah!

Remember when Wretch had Henderson as our first round pick in one of his 10,000 mock drafts....hahahahahahahaahha

Hmmm . . . the Tech web site shows that he signed with the Bengals.

http://ramblinwreck.cstv.com/sports/m-foot.../050106aaa.html

[walshfan]

Henderson was signed ....

[Whur CHad At?]

According to Geoff Hobson he wasn't

[TecmoFever]

Has anyone heard whether Henderson did indeed sign with the Bengals? Why wouldn't Geoff Hobson know about it if he did?

It looks like we won't end up getting to watch the battle in training camp between Rucker and Henderson, which disappoints me. Now we can't put a definitive finish to the constant bickering back and forth.

[bengalboomer7]

ESPN has him on the Bengals squad. They rated him the third best undrafted rookie and the Bengals did the fourth best in the league at getting undrafted talent. Of course, that means nothing

[HoosierCat]

FWIW, Ludwig had this tidbit in his writeup...

More CFAs will be announced upon the completion of signed contracts and the names of other players participating on a tryout basis will be available during minicamp.

[HairOnFire]

ESPN has him on the Bengals squad. They rated him the third best undrafted rookie and the Bengals did the fourth best in the league at getting undrafted talent. Of course, that means nothing

FoxSports also ranked the undrafted FA class and included Henderson...claiming the Bengals had signed him, so I'm not that concerned there's been no official announcement. It'll come. And Fox also noted that the Bengals had signed 3 out of the 5 best undrafted free agents.

Oh, and I just watched a replay of the USC/Texas Championship game. Frostee ran hot and cold. Positives? When Texas was at the very edge of their kickers range Rucker blew up a 4th and 1 attempt with an inside move that the OT, Jonathan Scott, completely whiffed on. Rucker then blew up the lead blocker before assisting on the tackle. Rucker also stuffed an early run for a 3 yard loss and later dumped Vince Young for an even bigger loss on a scramble. The pass rush was spotty, but he forced major pressure several times and showed the ability to stunt. He also forced a fumble, but Texas recovered, and thumped VY a split second after a pass was thrown on a key fumble play that was reviewed and overturned. Negatives? He had a chance to make several other plays in the backfield but missed the tackles. Young also burned his aggression once with a designed QB draw that netted something like 20 yards.

Last, I was surprised by how often the Trojans flipped Rucker from the right to the left side. In fact, for large stretches of the game Rucker didn't line up on the same side on consecutive downs.

[TJJackson]

FoxSports also ranked the undrafted FA class and included Henderson...claiming the Bengals had signed him, so I'm not that concerned there's been no official announcement. It'll come. And Fox also noted that the Bengals had signed 3 out of the 5 best undrafted free agents.

Can you provide the link? I did try to find it

[HairOnFire]

Here's most of the FoxSports article. I won't reprint the entire piece because that's not allowed, right? Names that I recognized as new Bengals are listed in bold, but I may have missed a couple. Note also that Bengal 5th round pick AJ Nicholson is incorrectly listed by the original writer as an UDFA.

Offense

QB Brett Basanez, Northwestern — The next stop for the reigning Big Ten offensive player of the year and holder of 30 school records is Carolina, where he'll be looking to earn a spot as the Panthers' third-string quarterback.

Also: Josh Betts (Miami U.), Bruce Eugene (Grambling), Darrell Hackney (UAB), Ryan Hart (Rutgers), Joel Klatt (Colorado), Drew Olson (UCLA), Marcus Vick (Virginia Tech), Paul Pinegar (Fresno State)

RB DonTrell Moore, New Mexico — Moore rushed for more than 1,000 yards in each of his four seasons and finished his Lobo career with 4,973 yards on the ground and 59 touchdowns. He signed a free-agent contract with the New York Jets Sunday night.

RB Taurean Henderson, Texas Tech — Always a threat on the ground or through the air, Henderson had 5,376 total yards and 69 touchdowns, which is good for No. 3 all-time. He's now a member of the Minnesota Vikings.

Also: Mike Bell (Arizona), Patrick Cobbs (North Texas), Andre Hall (South Florida), Mike Imoh (Virginia Tech), Wendell Mathis (Fresno State), Chris Barclay (Wake Forest), Damien Rhodes (Syracuse), Gerald Riggs (Tennessee), Cory Ross (Nebraska), Terrence Whitehead (Oregon), Jerod Void (Purdue)

WR Martin Nance, Miami (OH) — Ben Roethlisberger's favorite target in 2003 somehow slipped out of the draft despite possessing great size and a resume that includes 208 receptions and 26 touchdowns. He'll try to prove 31 teams wrong when the Buffalo Bills' mini-camp begins later this month.

WR Greg Lee, Pittsburgh — One of this year's poster boys for staying in school, Pitt's best offensive weapon the last two seasons never heard his name called Sunday afternoon. He'll now join former Panther teammate Larry Fitzgerald in Arizona.

Also: Jovon Bouknight (Wyoming), Dallas Baker (Florida), Hank Baskett (New Mexico), Sean Coffey (Missouri), Erik Davis (Vanderbilt), Jared Ellerson (Minnesota), Nichiren Flowers (Nevada), Ed Hinkel (Iowa), Ben Obomano (Auburn), Drouzon Quillen (UL-Monroe), Charles Sharon (Bowling Green), Clinton Solomon (Iowa)

TE Tim Day, Oregon — A year ago, Day was considered one of the hottest tight end prospects entering their senior seasons. Today, he's one of 13 free agents signed by the Chicago Bears after the draft ended on Sunday.

Also: Troy Bienemann (Washington State), Greg Estandia (UNLV), Ryan Hamby (Ohio State), David Jones (LSU)

OL Travis Leffew, Louisville — A four-year starter on a very good Louisville O-line, Leffew will try to continue his athletic career with the Chicago Bears.

OL Will Allen, Texas — Allen started 41 games for the Longhorns and was third-team All-American in last year's national championship season. The New Orleans Saints quickly inked him to a contract Sunday night.

OL Adam Stenavich, Michigan — Stenavich was a three-year starting tackle for the Wolverines, but will likely play guard for as long as he can stick around with the Carolina Panthers.

OL Mike Degory, Florida — Considered by many to be one of the toughest centers in college football the past two seasons, Degory started 50 games in Gainesville and was named to the All-SEC first team in 2005. He's in St. Louis, where he'll battle fellow free agent Donovan Raiola for a roster spot.

OL Donovan Raiola, Wisconsin — Raiola was a three-year starter and a steadying force at the pivot for the Badgers. He's in St. Louis, where he'll battle fellow free agent Mike Degory for a roster spot.

Also: Na'shan Goodard (South Carolina), Randy Hand (Florida), Jami Hightower (Texas A&M), Jabari Levey (South Carolina), Mark LeVoir (Notre Dame), Albert Toeaina (Tennessee), Lance Butler (Florida), Matt Lentz (Michigan), Nate Livings (LSU), Grayling Love (Arizona State), Rudy Niswanger (LSU), Pat Ross (Boston College)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Defense

DL Eric Henderson, Georgia Tech — Henderson struggled with injuries in 2004 and 2005, but still racked up 60 tackles for a loss and 25 sacks, good enough for All-ACC honors the last three seasons. The Cincinnati Bengals have signed him to a free agent contract.

DL Garrett McIntyre, Fresno State — A classic overachiever, who walked on to Fresno State and became the most dominant pass-rusher in the WAC, McIntyre will begin climbing the mountain again with the Seattle Seahawks.

DL Ryan Neill, Rutgers — Neil overcame a severe knee injury early in his career to finish with All-Big East honors in 2004 and 2005 and 21.5 tackles for a loss last fall. He'll be mining a spot on the Buffalo Bills roster as either an end or a long snapper.

DL Steve Fifita, Utah — Fifita lacked the prototypical size to get drafted, but that couldn't keep him from being one of the nastiest interior linemen in the country and a perennial choice for Mountain West post-season honors. Fifita will now try to wreak havoc as a member of the Miami Dolphins.

Also: Larry Dibbles (Texas), T.J. Jackson (Auburn), Nick Leaders (Iowa State), Brandon McKinney (Michigan State), Scott Paxson (Penn State), Brandon Villareal (Purdue), Phillip Alexander (Duke), Thomas Carroll (Miami), Mike Kudla (Ohio State), Devan Long (Oregon), Justin Parrish (Kent), Pierre Woods (Michigan)

LB Spencer Havner, UCLA — Havner finished his Bruin career with 402 tackles, 42 tackles for loss and 11 interceptions, but statistics alone couldn't land him a spot in one of the draft's seven rounds. He has, however, signed a free-agent deal with the Washington Redskins.

LB Trent Bray, Oregon State — Bray was the starter in the middle for the Beavers the last two years and led the Pac-10 in 2005 with more than 10 tackles per game. The all-league linebacker is now a Miami Dolphin.

LB Nick Reid, Kansas — The former Big 12 defensive player of the year plans to use his draft snub as a source of motivation when he joins the Kansas City Chiefs' mini-camp later this month .

Also: Anthony Trucks (Oregon), Justin London (UCLA), Kai Parham (Virginia), Freddie Roach (Alabama), Dale Robinson (Arizona State), Will Derting (Washington State), Brandon Hoyte (Notre Dame), Ricardo Hurley (South Carolina), William Kershaw (Maryland), Kyle Killion (Indiana), Chris Moore (East Carolina), A.J. Nicholson (Florida State), Moses Osemwegie (Vanderbilt), John Syptak (Rice), Travis Williams (Auburn), Kevis Coley (Southern Miss)

DB Aaron Gipson, Oregon — An undersized corner, Gipson was an unexpected All-American in 2005 after he led the country with seven interceptions.

DB Charles Gordon, Kansas — One of college football's most versatile athletes, Gordon led the Jayhawks in receptions in 2003, interceptions in 2004 and was also a threat on special teams. However, settling for a free-agent deal with Minnesota was evidence he never should have left Lawrence with a year of eligibility remaining.

DB Dwayne Slay, Texas Tech — Slay had a monster senior year, causing eight fumbles and earning the Big 12 defensive player of the year, but it wasn't enough to overcome a pedestrian 40 time. On Monday, he signed a free-agent deal with the Chicago Bears.

DB Darrell Brooks, Arizona — Brooks had four very productive seasons with the ‘Cats and was the emotional leader of a young defense. He's latched on with the Dallas Cowboys in the hopes of continuing his athletic career.

Also: Dion Byrum (Ohio), John Eubanks (Southern Miss), LaMarcus Hicks (Iowa State), Darrell Hunter (Miami U.), Chijioke Onyenegecha (Oklahoma), Anwar Phillips (Penn State), Jahmile Addae (West Virginia), Jaxson Appel (Texas A&M), Brian Iwuh (Colorado), Maurice Lane (Baylor), Mike Lorello (West Virginia), Donnie McCleskey (Cal), Greg Threat (Miami)

[walshfan]

AJ Nicholson and Eric Meyer are good signings imo...

both stand a chance to make the roste albeit Meyer may go on the practice team....

Henderson's future will be dictated by his health ....He has talent due to his array of moves...

[TJJackson]

OK, based on the tidbits, I searched for and found the article in question

Here's the link

http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/story/5571248

I could not however find the link that said we signed 3 out of the best 5 free agents

I assume Henderson was one of them, who are the other 2?

[TJJackson]

I put the question to Hobson why DE Eric Henderson is not on the published UDFA list, and got a reply today.

-----------

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------

Subject: RE: Contact Hobson from Bengals Web Site

From: "Hobson, Geoff" <deleted email address>

Date: Mon, May 8, 2006 10:29 am

To: "TJ Jackson" <deleted email address>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

HEY TOM - Henderson has yet to return his contract to the club, that's why he wasn't on the list

[HairOnFire]

I could not however find the link that said we signed 3 out of the best 5 free agents

My bad, apparently I didn't write the one word that would have clarified things. My post should have read...the Bengals signed 3 out of the 5 best undrafted free agent TIGHT ENDS. Greg Estandia (UNLV), Ryan Hamby (Ohio State), David Jones (LSU)

[membengal]

I don't want to start a new thread for this question, but am guessing a few of the passers-through of this monstrosity might know...

when is the Bengals' rookie camp? Next weekend? When is their first mini-camp?

And, when they do have those, will there be a cage match for Rucker and Henderson? If not, can we get a petition up calling for such a match?