Frostee Rucker Vs. Eric Henderson

[schweinhart]

The 3rd round pick of Frostee Rucker by the Bengals might have caused as much head scratching for some who watch college football as did the decision of every team in the league to pass on one of the better DEs in the draft, Eric Henderson. Now it appears that the Bengals could sign Henderson as an undrafted rookie free agent.

Rucker looks like a slower and weaker version of Duane Clemons and has already evoked some doubt about his ability to play at the next level (or even the level he was at) like this from prolific game tape watcher Bengal Pappaw:

3. Rucker -- "D" wasted pick. Doesn't show much of a pass rush, gets beaten on draw plays. Good linemen handle him with ease. How is he an upgrade over what we have?

I would have to agree with this. Rucker's contain sucks and the sequence of moves he can string together for pass rush are going to be about like Clemons was...they may work from time vs. weaker comp. All in all Rucker looked a lot like undrafted rookie free agent material.

Henderson OTOH showed he can produce against an NFL caliber linemen. He was the subjects of Zone threads during the college football season and vs. Auburn where he squared off with LT Marcus McNeil -- a 2nd round draft choice:

So far from senior DEs, I liked most what I saw of Eric Henderson of Ga Tech. His spin moves, pivots, and power on the punch gave Marcus McNeil some real trouble.

But alas Henderson got injured...again...in a somewhat injury bit college career.

Henderson picked up where he left of last year at the beginning of this season and gave Auburn's big LT Marcus McNeil all he could handle. But Henderson missed 4 games after that this year with an ankle injury and has returned for just 2 games getting 3 sacks and forcing 3 fumbles. He's the closest thing to Erasmus James in this year's draft at DE.

After his return, Henderson got a crack at another NFL left tackle -- #4 overall pick D'Brickashaw Ferguson:

Henderson looked winded late in the game and probably still wasn't in the best shape following his rehab but he again demonstrated his knack for production:

Ferguson handled him well but Henderson still found ways to produce.

Henderson later battled another NFL left tackle in 3rd round pick Eric Winston and got a sack and disrupted plays.

So the question is.....(at this point is sure is loaded ) who do you like better Rucker or Henderson?

[derekshank]

Well, wherever you go you can find differing opinions. I've found several "Expert" sites that have Rucker significantly higher than Ferguson... and vice versa. The real question is what Marvin thinks. Based on what we know... he thinks 3rd round pick material for Rucker and undrafted FA of Henderson. That is the only evidence I need... and really the only argument that holds weight when it comes to the actual Bengals team, and not just a bunch of fans bickering back and forth.

[Bengalbob]

Don't forget Henderson's game against Virginia. He was able to manage 5 tackles, one for a loss, plus a sack against the best OT in the draft, D'Brick. By the way, Henderson set the Tech all-time record for career TFLs in that game.

I'm a big Henderson fan, can you tell?

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Artrell Hawkins once had an INT vs an NFL QB. Why wasn't he picked higher?

Honestly you guys have your own little fan boy clubs with players, and every single year it's nothing but moaning about why they fell to the 7th round or completely off the draft board.

Seriously I am glad none of you are pro scouts!

[schweinhart]

Honestly you guys have your own little fan boy clubs with players, and every single year it's nothing but moaning about why they fell to the 7th round or completely off the draft board.

Seriously I am glad none of you are pro scouts!

I don't know about fan clubs...This one's got more to do with forming an opinion based on eyeballing and actually taking the time to watch players over the course of a season and/or career. Henderson is pretty tested against decent comp. He's produced and the reason for his fall appears to be more injury related (and maybe attitude) than anything to do with production, body type, strength, quickness, technique, stamina or determination. This guy can play in all facets of the DE position and -- we'll see -- but right now I'd rather see him in the starting lineup than Jumpy Jr. because I'm fairly damn sure he could get to the QB a whole helluva lot more often than the Jumpster did last year.

I hear you about the pro scouting though. Paul Alexander does enough of that to keep you happy, eh?

[Dadraftnick]

It does not take much to surpass Frostee the Snowman's career high of 6 sacks.

Henderson is hands down a better player if he can get and stay healthy.

One thing is for sure Gathers sucks, what did he have one sack. He did not even have a sack at Georgia.He was projected as an undrafted free agent and the Bengals took him in the 4th ahead of some quality DE's

I cant understand how you draft a guy that cant get a sack in the NCAA and expect him to do better against NFL OT's.

I think the only solution is to move Pollack to DE I didn't think he looked that good at LB anyway.

[HoosierCat]

But alas Henderson got injured...again...in a somewhat injury bit college career.

And there's why he fell out of the draft. I noticed a trend away from drafting guys with injuries or big injury histories last season (the most prominent example was Wilkerson) and that contnued to play out this time around. I wondered how Wright could fall so far...and today I read he needs shoulder surgery.

I agree with dadraftnik, if Henderson can stay healthy he will be a force. As for the Non-Dairy Beverage, who knows...but I'm not holding my breath.

[Dadraftnick]

You would think after the Bengals whole season and possiable Super Bowl run was ended by a sack (and intentional leg shredding) the Bengals would realize the importance of a good pass rush.

We could have waited another year to draft a CB, we have a roster of good CB's ,we could have waited another year to get an OT we have a roster of good OT's but Gathers Sucks!!!

Gathers could not make any other teams roster in the league, let alone start.

Hell at this point I would rather have Reinard Wilson.

[TJJackson]

I think I have made it clear (in other threads) that Henderson, if healthy, is (and this for the benefit of Sox: in my opinion) a vast improvement over Rucker.

Wonderful pickup, perhaps the best rookie this year, and yes, I include Joseph, who I like.

{edited to appease Sox}

[princeton]

like Wilkerson, I look for Henderson to spend 2006 on injured reserve.

[TJJackson]

Might well be. We'll see.

He really didn't work out at the combine or on his pro day, so I don;t really know his status.

Hopefully, Hobson will be able to talk to him and provide an answer on his current and projected status.

[HairOnFire]

Haters.

Rucker flashed pretty good pass rush skills last season for the Bruins in limited playing time, and was expected to make more of an impact than he actually did this season. Sort of the same thing that happened to Geathers when he was made a full time player. But Rucker is actually an above average run defender who plays with a great base for a DE, and boasts better than average lower body strength. In my opinion he's always been a little too soft above the waist and will need to add muscle to make it as a pro, but if he applies himself he could carry 275 or 280 pounds. Plus, he has always played well in big games.

[Sox]

I think I have made it clear that Henderson, if healthy, is a vast improvement over Rucker.

You have made it clear that YOU THINK HENDERSON,if healthy,is a vast improvement over Rucker.

Another opinion stated as fact.

So tiresome.

[Whur CHad At?]

Artrell Hawkins once had an INT vs an NFL QB. Why wasn't he picked higher?

Honestly you guys have your own little fan boy clubs with players, and every single year it's nothing but moaning about why they fell to the 7th round or completely off the draft board.

Seriously I am glad none of you are pro scouts!

Well said Shula!!!

Wasn't our Draft "Expert" 0-8 on his draft picks this year, and 0-7 last year? Maybe you need to stop pimping a bunch of no name players, I don't know but that should say something

[FreeChrisHenry]

Haters.

Rucker flashed pretty good pass rush skills last season for the Bruins in limited playing time, and was expected to make more of an impact than he actually did this season. Sort of the same thing that happened to Geathers when he was made a full time player. But Rucker is actually an above average run defender who plays with a great base for a DE, and boasts better than average lower body strength. In my opinion he's always been a little too soft above the waist and will need to add muscle to make it as a pro, but if he applies himself he could carry 275 or 280 pounds. Plus, he has always played well in big games.

There are no haters here. I think everyone was just confused. You see, Rucker looked pretty average playing for the USC Trojans last year. We had no idea he flashed pretty good pass rush skills for the UCLA Bruins.

[Whur CHad At?]

I am def. Warming up to Frostee, not to Henderson though

[DontPushMe]

I think I have made it clear (in other threads) that Henderson, if healthy, is (and this for the benefit of Sox: in my opinion) a vast improvement over Rucker.

Wonderful pickup, perhaps the best rookie this year, and yes, I include Joseph, who I like.

{edited to appease Sox}

Yes, you have made it blatantly clear that you have no idea what you are talking about. Congrats.

[derekshank]

I'm still not 100% convinced that the two players are comparable. With all the talk about Marvin eyeing Manny Lawson in the first round to turn into another 3-4 OLB, what makes us 100% sure that Rucker is a DE? He even played some LB in college, which is more than we could have said about Pollack.

I'm sure he'll play some DE... especially this year, but I'm still speculating that he's an eventual 3-4 OLB. A place where the criticisms that have been railed against him won't matter that much.

[HairOnFire]

Haters.

Rucker flashed pretty good pass rush skills last season for the Bruins in limited playing time, and was expected to make more of an impact than he actually did this season. Sort of the same thing that happened to Geathers when he was made a full time player. But Rucker is actually an above average run defender who plays with a great base for a DE, and boasts better than average lower body strength. In my opinion he's always been a little too soft above the waist and will need to add muscle to make it as a pro, but if he applies himself he could carry 275 or 280 pounds. Plus, he has always played well in big games.

There are no haters here. I think everyone was just confused. You see, Rucker looked pretty average playing for the USC Trojans last year. We had no idea he flashed pretty good pass rush skills for the UCLA Bruins.

Huge props. You not only managed to ignore everything of substance that I wrote, but you pointed out where I mistakenly named the wrong local school Rucker played for. It's going to be great having a guy like you around.

With all due respect, f**k you.

[kingwilly]

Rucker is FAR TOO SLOW for LB....you guys think Simmons is SLOW....get out the sundial to time Frostee!

USC beat up a pretty soft PAC-10....and did not have the defense that most people imagine of a No. 1 ranked team....I watched ALL their games since they are local.

here's to hoping Frostee makes the most of the situation and applies himself as a true professional.

[walshfan]

Personally I think Henderson may be the better of the two but he cant seem to stay healthy...

He's quicker than Rucker...about the same strength....much smarter ( academic all-american as opposed to Frostee having much trouble just learning the USC playbook)...has a array of moves to Rucker's bullrush..

Very inspirational story behind his upbringing ...

Good character kid too..

I like Henderson but Ill let it play out in preseason....

[Stripes]

Rucker is FAR TOO SLOW for LB....you guys think Simmons is SLOW....get out the sundial to time Frostee!

USC beat up a pretty soft PAC-10....and did not have the defense that most people imagine of a No. 1 ranked team....I watched ALL their games since they are local.

here's to hoping Frostee makes the most of the situation and applies himself as a true professional.

Slow based on his 40 times I assume? Unless a guy goes out and gets some rediculous time over a 5.0, I really don't think ANY stock should be taken in those damned times for linebackers. There are so many differences in the circumstances between those when a guy gets timed and those of playing in a football game. Granted I don't think his being drafted is any reason to suspect plans of a 3-4, but he seems just as suited to that change as anyone else in my opinion.

I don't think the overall caliber of USC's defense matters either. The ability of the individual we drafted is all I care about, and that remains to be seen.

[kingwilly]

So what you are saying is:

1. his measurables don't really count...for a D-lineman, the forty is not the best indicator but has to be considered, as should his short-shuttle and three cone.

2. The teams scheme and its preformance does not count...I guess the same could be said about Cutler...stand-out player on a bad team...

OK, based on that, Frostee's other tangibles, like tackels, Tackles for a loss, Sacks, etc. are NO WHERE NEAR the 4-6 guys who I think we should have taken.

TAC LS/YDS DFL FR INT YDS AVG TD LG

2003 (So.) 26 4/21 1 2 1 2 2.0 0 2

2004 (Jr.) 29 7.5/32 2 1 0 0 0.0 0 0

Career 55 11.5/53 3 3 1 2 2.0 0 2

He has had only three games in two full seasons where he made more than 5 tackles...

He had 20 games where he made TWO tackles or LESS...getting blanked twice....

this is not an impact player...or a disruptor...or worthy of an r3 pick..

But I hope it all works out.

[Stripes]

1. his measurables don't really count...for a D-lineman, the forty is not the best indicator but has to be considered, as should his short-shuttle and three cone.

Quite the contrary, it was his measurables that got him drafted in the third round, just not his 40 time. Marvin likes his build and whatever else. Based on his collegiate production, his measurables HAVE to be the key, I'm certainly not arguing that.

2. The teams scheme and its preformance does not count...I guess the same could be said about Cutler...stand-out player on a bad team...

I think the scheme is of marginal importance, but the defense's overall performance not so much.

I realize his in-game numbers aren't very impressive, but all that says to me is that Marvin isn't as interested in those sort of obvious measuring sticks as is a message board poster.

[Kazkal]

like Wilkerson, I look for Henderson to spend 2006 on injured reserve.

That be good been thinking about the rooster and damn 53 is just not enough