Deja Vu all over again...

[Whur CHad At?]

[TJJackson]

Why do we have such a hard time getting free agents to come to Cincinnati? Because MIKE BROWN is so damn cheap!

On the other hand, Marvin's presence here is starting to undo that issue. Don't underestimate the value of a having a good boss, and in the case of a football player, the value of playing for a WINNER with a chance at a RING.

The first FAs out of the gate all seem to be looking for the big payday with whatever team will give it to them, with no regard to their chances of success. Fine. It's their perogative. I think we'll start so see, as this insane pace wears down, players signing with winning teams -- where they have a shot to contribute towards earning a championship - rather than with money teams.

[Whur CHad At?]

Marvin gets them to come here, but most of them never sign, becuase we are in fact, cheap. But that can be good, sometimes.

[Stripes]

Didn't Mr. Brown pretty much give Coach Lewis final say over players who come in? If Marvin wants a guy, they'll try to get him, but their not going to bend over and take a reaming to get him.

Pollack coming into year two

Odell coming into year two

Landon in year three

Madieu in year three

Geathers in year three

Ratliff in year three

Fanene in year two

Askew in year three, but a big?

These guys, if they perform, will be here for a long time and be key players in a great D.

Sapp wouldn't have won the Super Bowl for us last year. Sage Rosenfels isn't going to put us in the playoffs this year. LaVar Arrington would totally screw up the money situation and any chemistry in the LB corp.

Now an upgrade at DT or safety is needed, but not at the expense of the total team picture. If someone fits that description, Marvin will have him. How many big name FA did the steelers bring in last year to win it all?

They did it with the draft and one dirty hit. Sit back, relax, enjoy our 1 team player FA, and get ready for April 29.

What he said. I agree with everything.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Didn't Mr. Brown pretty much give Coach Lewis final say over players who come in? If Marvin wants a guy, they'll try to get him, but their not going to bend over and take a reaming to get him.

Pollack coming into year two

Odell coming into year two

Landon in year three

Madieu in year three

Geathers in year three

Ratliff in year three

Fanene in year two

Askew in year three, but a big?

These guys, if they perform, will be here for a long time and be key players in a great D.

Sapp wouldn't have won the Super Bowl for us last year. Sage Rosenfels isn't going to put us in the playoffs this year. LaVar Arrington would totally screw up the money situation and any chemistry in the LB corp.

Now an upgrade at DT or safety is needed, but not at the expense of the total team picture. If someone fits that description, Marvin will have him. How many big name FA did the steelers bring in last year to win it all?

They did it with the draft and one dirty hit. Sit back, relax, enjoy our 1 team player FA, and get ready for April 29.

What he said. I agree with everything.

You missed one thing, however. It's not Marvin making the choices work. It's the new scouting department. Mike Brown finally decided, before he hired Marvin, that trusting the coaches to know talent (It's their job, not the owner's) was a failed project. His former coaches didn't do it, we had over a dozen failed seasons. It was time not only to change the coaching staff, but to get a scouting staff. Tobin and crew are the reason for the improved drafts, not Marvin alone.

PS: I'd call you an asshat to your face if you were one, so don''t try to say I called you a name I wouldn't call you to your face.

PPS: Show me real evidence of Mike Brown being cheap. You won't find it. Does he pay outsiders? No. Does he pay insiders ABSOFREAKINGLUTELY. Is he ever off the cap? No. Does he spend as much as he is allowed? Yes. Does he bend the rules of the cap like some others that overspend? No.

Marvin gets them to come here, but most of them never sign, becuase we are in fact, cheap. But that can be good, sometimes.

It's not a matter of being cheap, it's a matter of not overspending on free agents from outside the team and concentrating on maintaining continuity with the guys we have. It's a matter of philosophy. Do we try to buy a championship like the Redskins have been so effective with ? OR, do we draft well, keep the guys we drafted, build chemistry and win that way.

If we were cheap, we wouldn't be up against the cap every season.

[Spain]

Askew sucks his thumb, You can expect nothing from him, Just pop S. Smiths name in there.

[Section 310]

At some point the team has to step up to the plate and grab a frontline guy. While I would love to see them be able to extend Steinbach and Jones, this team's first priority has to be defensive tackle. The first Pittsburgh game last year showed us that a team with a good running game and solid defense can completely neutralize our potent offense.

Think about it for a minute. I believe the combination of Ghiaciuc/Sam Adams or Grady Jackson/Will Demps or Lawyer Milloy makes the Bengals a better TEAM than a simple extension of Steinbach. We are simply too weak on the defensive side of the ball to invest a ton of cash in offense.

I think the Bengals believe they will lose one or more of the O line starters next offseason. Thus, the past couple of years they have drafted Kieft, Ghiaciuc, and Andrews.

[Spain]

Willie anderson is gone next year. We might go O line with that first pick.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

At some point the team has to step up to the plate and grab a frontline guy.

They did last year. They grabbed a guy named TJ and a guy named Rudi. They also locked up a guy named Carson.

What part of buying a championship doesn't work don't you get? How much has Snyder spent on free agents grabbing the top guys year after year after year, and they are further away from the prize than we are.

THE DRAFT WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS NOT FREE AGENCY.

[cover2]

I always think of the story Jimmy Johnson former coach of Dallas tells when he and his staff were evaulating draft talent and leave

the airport to get into a limo while Mikey and his staff leave the airport and all try squeeze in some little rental car.....the point really illuminates Mikeys style and spending habits.

[kingwilly]

PPS: Show me real evidence of Mike Brown being cheap. You won't find it. Does he pay outsiders? No. Does he pay insiders ABSOFREAKINGLUTELY. Is he ever off the cap? No. Does he spend as much as he is allowed? Yes. Does he bend the rules of the cap like some others that overspend? No.

TNBT, you are smarter than this...

Mike Brown has been NOTORIOUSLY CHEAP IN EVERY WAY AND EVERYONE KNEW IT. Show you real evidence.....do you need old airline tickets or something? how about the FACT that at the old Bengals facility, they did not even have towel service for the team??.. or had a weght room that couldn't hold a candle to many high school facilities...or were in such a CHEAP/RIDICULOUS setting out W. 8th tht had them surrounded on two sides (i'm talking right over the fence) by 55 gallns drums filed with "who knows what"...or how about the fact that we are only 2 of the 32 teams that do not have a practice bubble..."not cheap", we are the only cold weather climate team without one...to this some would say, big deal, but when it is mid Nov. and sleeting, your practice isn't going to be as effective, guys who are nicked up don;t get warmed up and risk further injury and guys are impacted by colds/flu just like everyne else...it is a real big deal and a perfect testatment to how CHEAP Brown is...not spending money on things that help facilitate a better team.

IS he ever off the cap....he has only been ON the cap for about the past 3 years...and that is a fact....I'lltry to re-dig that one up, as it is flat factual...and part of one of the previous actions the county had about "Not fielding a competitive team", the logic being with such a woeful record and history of not using all the space in the cap there must be a connection with money spent and winning.

There is more to being cheap than simply hitting the cap...

It really is only with the advent of Katie Blackburn that the tide began to trun, from one of the most poorly competitive teams that cut orners wherever they could, AKA being cheap, to one that understands competition does not start and end on the field. Once they raised the profile (ML, Scouts, new facility, new stadium, etc) did they actually get some players of value to ome here and we still are the leverage point for some players...bear in mind Mike Brown was running his team like Paul did: before Free Agency, before a salary cap, before the NFL really hit the bigtime as it relats to bonuses, costs, TV, popularity...

I think they are obviously doing better but please drop the hystrianics of the "Show me proof" BS.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

I always think of the story Jimmy Johnson former coach of Dallas tells when he and his staff were evaulating draft talent and leave

the airport to get into a limo while Mikey and his staff leave the airport and all try squeeze in some little rental car.....the point really illuminates Mikeys style and spending habits.

Uh that's not being cheap, that's avoiding a waste of money. Is there a reason you need a limo instead of a rental car to get around? Frugal is not cheap. Thrifty is not cheap.

[kingwilly]

you are obtuse in your observation of cheap vs lavish.

I gave you specifics about Brown's overall cheapness and you retort with a coment about "thriftiness"...I guess it is thrifty to shuttle guys out to Soccerworld to have an indoor practice, or bring thier own towels in...come to think of it, maybe they can take thier laundry home too, or wear a jersey twice before getting it cleaned....

TNBT = Thrifty New Bengals Team

[Sox]

Mike Brown would rather make 2 million dollars and have the Bengals finish the season 2-14 with the first pick in the draft and have all the fans excited about who they will pick, than lose 2 million dollars and win a Superbowl. That's the cold hard facts.

I disagree.

Mike Brown WANTS TO WIN. He has ALWAYS wanted to win. He has NEVER spent less money than other owners. He hasn't spent it in the right places, but it's not about making more money. It has ALWAYS been about being loyal to his guys. Mike Brown has always been about building the team through the draft, as Paul Brown intended, and paying his own free agents to stick around.

Get off the Mike Brown should be replaced kick. He's a good guy.

Fixed.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

you are obtuse in your observation of cheap vs lavish.

I gave you specifics about Brown's overall cheapness and you retort with a coment about "thriftiness"...I guess it is thrifty to shuttle guys out to Soccerworld to have an indoor practice, or bring thier own towels in...come to think of it, maybe they can take thier laundry home too, or wear a jersey twice before getting it cleaned....

TNBT = Thrifty New Bengals Team

What's so bad about shuttling guys out to Soccerworld for an indoor practice? We do it what, one or two weeks all year round? As opposed to spending MILLIONS on an indoor practice field and increasing the cost of tickets? Remember, our ticket costs are also among the lowest in the league because Mike Brown is thrifty.

They don't bring their own towels. They don't wear jersey's twice before getting them cleaned, in fact, they get cleaned after a game and then sold in the Pro Shop. You're just plain making s**t up.

[HoosierCat]

Why the agita, fellas? It isn't like we didn't know the Bengals were going to be...well...the Bengals in FA this year. Hobson's been signaling it for months in his articles and columns. SSDY.

At this point, my advice to the team would be, shut it down. But that of course would imply that they ever started it up in the first place, which they really didn't.

With the possible exceptions of Putzier and Bernard, it looks like most of the cream has been skimmed from the top of the FA cup o' joe, at least as far as positions of need for the Bengals are concerned. Not sure I'd even bother with a QB like Jamie Martin; no offense but is he really all that much better an option than our current scrub 1 and scrub 2 (Johnson and Krenzel)? There's a couple second/third tier types (like Sam Adams) who might help...but the Bengals' experience with bargain FAs shows they are almost uniformly a waste of money. Better to spend the money nailing down Levi and Steinbach.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

That is why I propose matching/signing Walter, and keeping some continuity - by losing FA's, not extending, and not signing any FA's of note - this team will fall to the bottom of the division faster than you think.

this Bengals' team needs all the help it can get next season.

I also think it's important to weigh your QB options in training camp/preseason by bringing in some competition, because next season is going to ride on how well the QB plays for the first half of the season, period.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Mike Brown would rather make 2 million dollars and have the Bengals finish the season 2-14 with the first pick in the draft and have all the fans excited about who they will pick, than lose 2 million dollars and win a Superbowl. That's the cold hard facts.

You are about as ignorant of the truth as a blind man who has lost his hearing, lost both his arms and legs in a car accident, and has severe allergies that prevent him from hearing.

Mike Brown WANTS TO WIN. He has ALWAYS wanted to win. He has NEVER spent less money than other owners. He hasn't spent it in the right places, but it's not about making more money. It has ALWAYS been about being loyal to his guys. Mike Brown has always been about building the team through the draft, as Paul Brown intended, and paying his own free agents to stick around.

So get a clue you moronic dolt, and get off the Mike Brown should be replaced kick. He's a good guy.

Well, you have two choices: 1) Mike Brown doesn't care about winning. 2) Mike Brown is completely f***ing incompetent. Myself, I'll concede that Mike likes to win but is completely clueless. Good guys can be incompetent, and the team only got better when he stepped back from day to day operations a bit and let some people who knew what they were doing run some things.

Seriously, what other organization would repeatedly hire head coaches from basically within the organization (Coslet, Shula, LeBeau) for 12 years while averaging 4 wins a year?

Really, in the parity-driven NFL, you almost have to try to lose that many games for 15 years in a row.

[walshfan]

Lets not go out and overpay players... What message does that send to our own guys??

Outside of a couple players who has signed that the team reallly needs?

At what price?

The priority will be the Draft and signing our offensive line..

the teams that are grabbing up all these money grabbers are low end teams anyway.....

Isnt it possible the Bengals have their eye on a couple players that are Still on the Board?? ( Adams, Bernard, Grady Jackson, Milloy, Dexter Jackson )

[HoosierCat]

That is why I propose matching/signing Walter, and keeping some continuity - by losing FA's, not extending, and not signing any FA's of note - this team will fall to the bottom of the division faster than you think.

Maybe. You also have to consider the quality of the guys who have moved or are moving on. Right now we are basically down Clemons (cut) and Schobel (signed by Philly), will likely see Kitna go to either NY or Detroit, and Walters has been offered by Houston. Nothing there the Bengals can't live without, IMHO.

I also think it's important to weigh your QB options in training camp/preseason by bringing in some competition, because next season is going to ride on how well the QB plays for the first half of the season, period.

I'll pass on the QB competitions, thank you very much. Bad enough we're back to picking over scrub QBs as potential starters again. No need to compound the error with another LeBeau-ian two- or three-headed hydra act in camp. Martin, Johnsons, Krenzel, BillyBob the Backwoods Sensation, I don't give a crap, just pick one and give him as many reps and as much time with the wideouts and o-line as possible.

[richmond_mat]

Richmond nails it right on the head there

Thanks for the props.

Apparently you are correct in the responses mikey has gotten.

I love TNBT new moniker.

[cover2]

you are obtuse in your observation of cheap vs lavish.

I gave you specifics about Brown's overall cheapness and you retort with a coment about "thriftiness"...I guess it is thrifty to shuttle guys out to Soccerworld to have an indoor practice, or bring thier own towels in...come to think of it, maybe they can take thier laundry home too, or wear a jersey twice before getting it cleaned....

TNBT = Thrifty New Bengals Team

What's so bad about shuttling guys out to Soccerworld for an indoor practice? We do it what, one or two weeks all year round? As opposed to spending MILLIONS on an indoor practice field and increasing the cost of tickets? Remember, our ticket costs are also among the lowest in the league because Mike Brown is thrifty.

They don't bring their own towels. They don't wear jersey's twice before getting them cleaned, in fact, they get cleaned after a game and then sold in the Pro Shop. You're just plain making s**t up.

you are obtuse in your observation of cheap vs lavish.

I gave you specifics about Brown's overall cheapness and you retort with a coment about "thriftiness"...I guess it is thrifty to shuttle guys out to Soccerworld to have an indoor practice, or bring thier own towels in...come to think of it, maybe they can take thier laundry home too, or wear a jersey twice before getting it cleaned....

TNBT = Thrifty New Bengals Team

What's so bad about shuttling guys out to Soccerworld for an indoor practice? We do it what, one or two weeks all year round? As opposed to spending MILLIONS on an indoor practice field and increasing the cost of tickets? Remember, our ticket costs are also among the lowest in the league because Mike Brown is thrifty.

They don't bring their own towels. They don't wear jersey's twice before getting them cleaned, in fact, they get cleaned after a game and then sold in the Pro Shop. You're just plain making s**t up.

Of course there is always the one about the Airline ticket (coach seat) for the nose tackle from Baltinore

Tony Seragusa. He cashed the ticket and kept the money. He is still laughing about it.

You can't make this studd up much less defend the indefendsible. The signing today almost smells of Mikey

......hope I'm wrong.