The Liberal Thread

[Kirkendall]

Congrats dude. Whatever you do, don't let him turn into a liberal.

[The Big Orange]

Capt. Kirk,

Whoa, Where did that come from? Boy, could i play devils advocate on that one..I have a sneaking suspicion I could get you ire up real quick like.

As far as decorating your room, you can take any picture (Bengals or other wise) and send it to http://www.muralsyourway.com and they can make a full wall mural. Nothing will grow your son growing up right then the watchful eye of a 6' X 8' Bengals tiger head.

[Bobcat Bengal]

Capt. Kirk,

Whoa, Where did that come from? Boy, could i play devils advocate on that one..I have a sneaking suspicion I could get you ire up real quick like.

you ain't know?

This dude's a staunch republican.

Hates us liberal types.

[UofLnMU]

Actually Kirk, we had planned on raising him to be an NRA member, and arrange for him to throw the switch on a drug offender's execution when he's 6. WTH did all this anti-liberal stuff come from? I'm to the left, but what the hell does that have to do with a baby boy's room?

[HairOnFire]

Congrats dude. Whatever you do, don't let him turn into a liberal.

Turn the baby into a liberal?

Doesn't that imply that everyone is born a conservative and some people change later only after being exposed to the education system and real life experiences?

Ok, that does sound fairly plausible when put that way. So perhaps I should consider this "Everyone Is Born Republican" theory at length before finishing the first draft of my latest book. It might be changed at a later date, but the working title is....

"Surviving the New Dark Ages, or How I Learned to Punch Conservatives in their Scrawny Throats Over and Over Again Until They Eventually Stop Breathing." --- by Paul Myfinger

Don't let the title fool you...it's a love story.

Last, congrats to the breeders of the previously mentioned baby. Nice job.

[walshfan]

No liberals stem from the brain washing they get in collage by professors that are afraid to take a stance agaisnt anything but getting thru the day and getting tenure.

[UofLnMU]

No liberals stem from the brain washing they get in collage by professors that are afraid to take a stance agaisnt anything but getting thru the day and getting tenure.

They get brainwashing in "collage"? Perhaps someone should have paid more attention to spelling in grade school. When the hell were liberals afraid to take a stance against anything? That's a red herring of an argument.

Dammit people...more talk about cool stuff for my baby. Less about why liberals are evil.

[Kirkendall]

Wow, didn't realize this place became so humorless. My bad guys.

[walshfan]

No liberals stem from the brain washing they get in collage by professors that are afraid to take a stance agaisnt anything but getting thru the day and getting tenure.

They get brainwashing in "collage"? Perhaps someone should have paid more attention to spelling in grade school. When the hell were liberals afraid to take a stance against anything? That's a red herring of an argument.

Dammit people...more talk about cool stuff for my baby. Less about why liberals are evil.

Well excuse me for hitting an a in place of an e.. Now do I get a better grade professor?

As for liberalism... I stand by what I said... Liberals take a stand allright.. a negative one most of the time... Spineless creatures they are.....

As for your baby...Its the time you spend teaching them not What you buy them..You definatelly sound like a lilberal....

[HairOnFire]

Dammit people...more talk about cool stuff for my baby. Less about why liberals are evil.

I say we blame Kirk entirely for the nasty outbreak of political sniping, and suggest that as a penalty any Bengalzone poster who describes their political views as being conservative....(wait for it)...immediately send to your newest and stickiest offspring some form of sports memorabilia appropriate for the new room.

There, that should do it. Just wait and the stuff will start rolling in.

[Ox]

I think it is more like you are born liberal, but as you grow older you become republican as you mature. There is a famous quote about that, I am just too lazy to look it up. Blew the ol' knee out again tonight playing softball, so I am motivated enough to get on here, that's bout it.

Anyways, congrats man, I hear it is the greatest time of your life. The most frusterating, too. Just raise him a Bengals Fan!

[BengalszoneBilly]

Wow, didn't realize this place became so humorless. My bad guys.

Oh that's not it Josh. There's plenty of "humor" within the members here. It's just most are probably saving it for when the next religious argument breaks out!

[UofLnMU]

Well excuse me for hitting an a in place of an e.. Now do I get a better grade professor?

As for liberalism... I stand by what I said... Liberals take a stand allright.. a negative one most of the time... Spineless creatures they are.....

As for your baby...Its the time you spend teaching them not What you buy them..You definatelly sound like a lilberal....

Look here, guy, I started this post loking to see if anyone had any ideas on cute accessories sport-wise. I didn't really care to come here for a fifth-grade political name-calling spat. I really didn't come here to have someone else moralize to me that it was "the time (I) spent teaching, not What [sic] (I) buy them." While you want to generalize me to be "spineless," as apparently, I "definatelly [sic] sound like a lilberal [sic]," I won't do the same to suggest that all right-wingers are mindless idiots. I have a number of conservative friends who are just fine.

You must throw off that average toward mindless idiot, eh?

Best to your husband, too, walsh.

[HoosierCat]

I think it is more like you are born liberal, but as you grow older you become republican as you mature. There is a famous quote about that, I am just too lazy to look it up.

You're probably thinking of Churchill's comment that if you aren't a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you aren't a conservative at 40, you have no head.

The problem these days is that there no longer is any real conservative option. Liberalism has triumphed utterly. But don't get me started...

[San Antonio Bengal]

Is the offseason so boring that y'all have to start arguments like this?

The problem these days is that there no longer is any real conservative option. Liberalism has triumphed utterly.

Really? It doesn't seem that others agree with you. These are just the numbers...

President: GOP

Senate: 55 GOP / 44 Dem / 1 Ind

House: 232 GOP / 201 Dem / 1 Ind / 1 Vacant

Governors: 28 GOP / 22 Dem

[HoosierCat]

Is the offseason so boring that y'all have to start arguments like this?

Eh, it kills time. No worse than debating some self-proclaimed-football-experts.com's pre-everything power rankings, or reading the latest bengals.com puff piece on on how this year's 7th round pick is going to be a Pro Bowler, I suppose.

Really?  It doesn't seem that others agree with you.

You're equating Republican with conservative. That may still be true on a local level in some place, but nationally it's hard to get more liberal than the GOP is today. Traditional conservatism favors a smaller, limited Federal government; reduced spending; and a foreign policy built around John Adams' famous words that "America goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy." All this has been tossed in the trash in favor of a foreign policy that could have been authored by Woodrow Wilson and domestic initiatives that have greatly expandied the breadth and depth of Federal power, not to mention Federal spending (go look at what that prescription drug bill will cost!).

[Kirkendall]

There is a difference between traditional conservatism and modern conservatism as there is in traditional liberalism and modern liberalism. And there's too much emphasis on modern conservatism equaling republicans.

Take me for example, I tend to side with modern conservatism in regards to foreign policy, but traditional conservatism on the economy (which does not exist today, too much regulation). I tend to side liberally on most social issues, but that's an issue-by-issue analysis; not some word that sums up everything I believe in.

And as a sidenote, I'm NOT a registered republican. I'm an independant. I use my own mind, brain-power, and position, on who I think is the best choice for the job on the major issues at the time.

I say we blame Kirk

Blame me all you want. I said one word in joking that had nothing to do with politics, just idealism -- some of y'all went ape-s**t on it. Which tells me some are naive and ignorant on idealisms or just don't have a clue and use popular talking points heard on CNN, FoxNews, and _______ (enter supposed biased channel/website here). Personally I believe if you can't debate without having a little fun -- or can't avoid name-calling -- then don't do it at all.

Damn it, I said I wouldn't respond.

UofLnMU -- my apologizes for causing this stir and many congrats on the new family member.

[HoosierCat]

There is a difference between traditional conservatism and modern conservatism as there is in traditional liberalism and modern liberalism.

Exactly right. The conservative position I described -- small government, etc. -- is consistent with what's known as "classical liberalism." Terms have flip-flopped over the years.

And there's too much emphasis on modern conservatism equaling republicans.

Oh, no doubt. If there's any question about how "liberal" the current GOP administration is, consider the Supreme Court's recent decision on medical marijuana, which declared that state laws were superceeded by Federal ones and that the FBI could still bust you even if your state said it was OK for you to grow pot. That outcome -- which was what the Bush Administration wanted -- was determined by the Court's liberal members (Breyer, Kennedy, Souter, Ginsberg and Stevens). The only conservative who supported the Administration was Scalia, Dick Cheney's duck-hunting buddy; Thomas, O'Conner and Rhenquist all dissented.

[Kirkendall]

Exactly right. The conservative position I described -- small government, etc. -- is consistent with what's known as "classical liberalism." Terms have flip-flopped over the years.

Woooh. Are we agreeing here?

Absolutely. In fact, I've ripped the Bush administration a few times on their careless use of discretionary spending and rise in government presence in our daily lives -- something I didn't care for with Clinton, but I guess it's the reality of the times we live in today.

See I'm more of a fence sitting moderate than a "stanch republican conservative".

[HoosierCat]

Woooh. Are we agreeing here?

Hey, stuff happens

Absolutely.  In fact, I've ripped the Bush administration a few times on their careless use of discretionary spending and rise in government presence in our daily lives -- something I didn't care for with Clinton, but I guess it's the reality of the times we live in today.

Exactly -- because neither the Dems nor the GOP have anything to be gained by curbing Federal power and spending. Why attack your own power base?

[San Antonio Bengal]

You're equating Republican with conservative.

Yes, I was making that assumption that conservative = republican. It does bring up an interesting point about the language we use to describe political viewpoints. There's "republican" and "democrat" and "conservative" and "liberal" and then you can add the "modern" prefix or "classic" prefix. Unfortunately some people will use strict definitions while others are thinking of generalities or vice versa. This can lead to some interesting debates -- the kind where you think you disagree and then you figure out that you agree, but the language the other person was using was "backwards."

It is true that over the years terms have flip-flopped. But I don't think that you can go so far as to say "The problem these days is that there no longer is any real conservative option. Liberalism has triumphed utterly." First of all, which kind of "conservative" and "liberal" are you referring to? See above paragraph. With the specific example of small government, just because the current administration has run up a huge deficit and has been throwing money around like it's nothing, that doesn't mean that the core fiscally conservative beliefs have changed. I and a lot of my "conservative" buddies have complained a lot about Bush's fiscal non-policy. Our beliefs are no different, but it just happens that the current administration has the title "Republican" but the guy is too fiscally liberal.

And in interest of full disclosure, my voter registration card has me down as a Republican. In general I tend to agree more with the Republican stances on the issues, but the real reason I'm a registered Republican is that it allows me to vote in the primaries which I wouldn't be allowed to do as an Independent.

[HoosierCat]

But I don't think that you can go so far as to say "The problem these days is that there no longer is any real conservative option. Liberalism has triumphed utterly." First of all, which kind of "conservative" and "liberal" are you referring to? See above paragraph. With the specific example of small government, just because the current administration has run up a huge deficit and has been throwing money around like it's nothing, that doesn't mean that the core fiscally conservative beliefs have changed.

Well, I'm not sure how you can think their core fical beliefs haven't changed when you go on to admit the administration hasn't been fiscally conservative. Unless, of course, you're suggesting that the Bush Administration never had fiscally conservative beliefs to begin with, in which case I would agree completely.

As for what I mean by conservative and liberal right now, I'd paraphrase Ronald Reagan: liberals see government as a solution, conservatives see government as a problem. That's an extremely broad categorization, and each side has its exceptions, but those are the basic impulses underlying each side's thinking. And at this point, the liberal viewpoint is indeed triumphant -- utterly.

On the Dem's side, I don't see any significant calls for fiscal restraint, smaller government, etc., and their answer to every question still seems to be, raise taxes (for example: Social Security going bust? Answer: raise the payroll tax). The GOP these days is the same, except that instead of raising taxes on us now, they foist the burden off on our kids by borrowing. And the borrow and borrow and borrow and borrow...for what? Things like bazillion dollar prescription drug benefits and farm subsidies that would make the stanchest FDR Dem proud.

[Kirkendall]

And at this point, the liberal viewpoint is indeed triumphant -- utterly.

In that government is the solution, then yea, I'd agree. They absolutely have every hand up our ass today.

[BengalszoneBilly]

And in interest of full disclosure, my voter registration card has me down as a Republican.  In general I tend to agree more with the Republican stances on the issues, but the real reason I'm a registered Republican is that it allows me to vote in the primaries which I wouldn't be allowed to do as an Independent.

Wow! I thought I was the only one who did that. There is definite shortcomings in our voting system. Why can't you just register, party affiliation be damned. I've never voted a straight ticket in my life. Never will either.

[Kirkendall]

And in interest of full disclosure, my voter registration card has me down as a Republican.  In general I tend to agree more with the Republican stances on the issues, but the real reason I'm a registered Republican is that it allows me to vote in the primaries which I wouldn't be allowed to do as an Independent.

Wow! I thought I was the only one who did that. There is definite shortcomings in our voting system. Why can't you just register, party affiliation be damned. I've never voted a straight ticket in my life. Never will either.

Because the party is voting for their candidate and it removes other entities from voting for a guy (or woman) the party chooses. The preliminaries are a party thing, not a general election.