More Chad Talk

[HairOnFire]

[That's the first I have ever heard that Marvin wanted to cut players and Mike Brown "wakes up the next day" and decides not to.]

First, the snippet doesn't mention Marvin Lewis. Second, the rant about refusing to discipline troublesome players is the very core of Bob Trumpy's decade long rant about players knowing the coaching staff is powerless if their playing time, production, or the size of their contract gives them a certain amount of security.

Sadly, I'm not sure what the rant is based upon because as many times as I've heard it I've never heard Trumpy break guy code by giving an actual example.

Frankly, the whole premise seems built upon the idea of many of the Bengals best players have never cared very much about winning, an idea that seems ludicrous until you remember that Bengal teams have a long history of doing as little as possible the moment a head coach makes the fatal mistake of treating players like men. In addition, the players have to know by now that most Bengals fans will never hold them accountable for their behavior. (Chad's NOT the problem!!!)

[Jet23]

[That's the first I have ever heard that Marvin wanted to cut players and Mike Brown "wakes up the next day" and decides not to.]

First, the snippet doesn't mention Marvin Lewis. Second, the rant about refusing to discipline troublesome players is the very core of Bob Trumpy's decade long rant about players knowing the coaching staff is powerless if their playing time, production, or the size of their contract gives them a certain amount of security.

Sadly, I'm not sure what the rant is based upon because as many times as I've heard it I've never heard Trumpy break guy code by giving an actual example.

Frankly, the whole premise seems built upon the idea of many of the Bengals best players have never cared very much about winning, an idea that seems ludicrous until you remember that Bengal teams have a long history of doing as little as possible the moment a head coach makes the fatal mistake of treating players like men. In addition, the players have to know by now that most Bengals fans will never hold them accountable for their behavior. (Chad's NOT the problem!!!)

Not that I make it a habit of listening to Andy Fuhrman, but he had David Fulcher in studio talking about how the CJ trade talk was ridiculous. Moron after moron called the show proclaiming how important Chad was to this town. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we have won exactly how many playoff games with Chad? That would be ZERO. Have we been beat down to the point where we have no standards whatsoever? I question whether the Bengals can win a Championship with a guy that acts like that. I try to think back to a team that won a Championship with a guy like that. I could not recall one in football. The closest I could come is Manny Ramirez. Man-Ram has a similar personality, but if I am not mistaken, the guys in the dugout love him. I do not believe the same can be said about Chad. Lapham said that guys were tired of having to cash checks that Chad's mouth writes.

I understand that he does not play defense, but he could be a major reason why they do not play as a team.

[The PatternMaster]

Don't you just love the national media, they spend about 30 seconds researching a topic that includes reading someone's article and then they get on TV and act they are experts on the subject. Salisbury says the Bengals are the most immature team in the league, how much time has he spent with our guys on and off the field. Isn't Salisbury the same guy who once cut a Christmas tree in the back of his head and didn't he almost get fired for sexual harrassment recently from ESPN, sounds like a expert on maturity to me.

The media is on this whole "Chad Johnson is evil" thing, like the reason why the defense isn't performing is because of Chad. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, just plain stupid.

You mean to tell me that Jonathan Joseph and Deltha O'Neal stunk it up in the first half of the Jets game because of Chad? That when we played Cleveland we had broken coverage after broken coverage because of Chad? How about the Seattle game, the reason why Madieu kept letting guys get behind him when he's supposed to be the deep safety in the Cover 2 was because of Chad too right? Why stop there, why not blame global warming, the war in Iraq, the reason why you didn't get that promotion, that flat tire you got last week, that time when a bird pooped on your car after you had just gotten it washed was all because of Chad Johnson, right?

Let's not kid ourselves the main reason why we are 2-4 is because the defense has been awful, the one game where we held our opponent to less than 21 pts we won. No offense should have to feel like they have to score 30 pts a game to win, but our offense does and that is the problem, not Chad Johnson. People just don't like Chad because he's flashy and his confidence can be seen as arrogence, but those are personal issues people have with him. Until Chad plays defense please stop blaming him for the way the season has turned out.

As for teams that won SuperBowls with guys like Chad, I know a guy named Deion Sanders aka "Primetime" who was quite the character in his day. Chad's not keeping us from winning a SuperBowl, the defense is. As we all know defense wins championships and right now our defense is far from being a championship caliber defense.

[Jet23]

As for teams that won SuperBowls with guys like Chad, I know a guy named Deion Sanders aka "Primetime" who was quite the character in his day. Chad's not keeping us from winning a SuperBowl, the defense is. As we all know defense wins championships and right now our defense is far from being a championship caliber defense.

Bad example. Deion won Championships and didn't diappear in big games. Everyone knows that Chad doesn't play defense, but has a divided locker room ever been a good thing? Like Carson, Chad has HOF potential. He should be part of the solution, not the problem. He needs to stop making his coach look like a fool.

[The PatternMaster]

As for teams that won SuperBowls with guys like Chad, I know a guy named Deion Sanders aka "Primetime" who was quite the character in his day. Chad's not keeping us from winning a SuperBowl, the defense is. As we all know defense wins championships and right now our defense is far from being a championship caliber defense.

Bad example. Deion won Championships and didn't diappear in big games. Everyone knows that Chad doesn't play defense, but has a divided locker room ever been a good thing? Like Carson, Chad has HOF potential. He should be part of the solution, not the problem. He needs to stop making his coach look like a fool.

Why is Deion a bad example, you asked for team that won with guys like Chad the Cowboys and 49er's both won with Deion, just the Buc's won with MeShawn, like the Cowboys won with Hollywood Henderson etc...Regardless of what the idiots at ESPN are saying, Chad is not the problem.

So your telling me that the locker room is divided and it's all Chad's fault. Who is your source or are you just making this up, sounds like the latter to me. I know it's en vouge thing to blame Chad for everything but that is not the answer to the problem.

If we had a defense that could stop the run and not give up big plays in the passing game this would be a non-issue and I'm not buying the "Chad is ruining the team" crap either. I would say everytime Madieu blows a coverage or Joseph wiffs on a tackle Marvin looks just as a bad as when he gets into an arguement with Chad on the sidelines. I think you guys discount how much emotion these guys play with, when your in the heat of the battle it's hard to have your emotions in check.

At this point we are 2-4 and everyone from Marvin on down needs to step it up, why Chad has become the whipping boy of the hour is beyond me.

It's Steeler's week, we need this game to stay alive in the division and for the season and the only thing everybody wants to talk about is how Chad is bad for the team because ESPN said so, that is ridiculous.

[bwillycuse]

As for teams that won SuperBowls with guys like Chad, I know a guy named Deion Sanders aka "Primetime" who was quite the character in his day. Chad's not keeping us from winning a SuperBowl, the defense is. As we all know defense wins championships and right now our defense is far from being a championship caliber defense.

Bad example. Deion won Championships and didn't diappear in big games. Everyone knows that Chad doesn't play defense, but has a divided locker room ever been a good thing? Like Carson, Chad has HOF potential. He should be part of the solution, not the problem. He needs to stop making his coach look like a fool.

Why is Deion a bad example, you asked for team that won with guys like Chad the Cowboys and 49er's both won with Deion, just the Buc's won with MeShawn, like the Cowboys won with Hollywood Henderson etc...Regardless of what the idiots at ESPN are saying, Chad is not the problem.

So your telling me that the locker room is divided and it's all Chad's fault. Who is your source or are you just making this up, sounds like the latter to me. I know it's en vouge thing to blame Chad for everything but that is not the answer to the problem.

If we had a defense that could stop the run and not give up big plays in the passing game this would be a non-issue and I'm not buying the "Chad is ruining the team" crap either. I would say everytime Madieu blows a coverage or Joseph wiffs on a tackle Marvin looks just as a bad as when he gets into an arguement with Chad on the sidelines. I think you guys discount how much emotion these guys play with, when your in the heat of the battle it's hard to have your emotions in check.

At this point we are 2-4 and everyone from Marvin on down needs to step it up, why Chad has become the whipping boy of the hour is beyond me.

It's Steeler's week, we need this game to stay alive in the division and for the season and the only thing everybody wants to talk about is how Chad is bad for the team because ESPN said so, that is ridiculous.

#1 - If Clayton said that then I am going to stop defending him when that white piece of mouth #$%$ is stuck to his lip while giving an analysis. Drink some water. Get that dry mouth addressed..please.

#2 - Levi Jones is more to blame about dividing the locker room. Has Chad publically undermined his coach like Levi. Ill take Chad all day. So will any other team in the league - They are all salivating thinking of the chance at getting Chad on the cheap.

Where is our defensive leadership.....Jackson..Thornton? Step up and do your jobs. Even if Chad is causing problems in the clubhouse - He and a very few others are the only ones earning their paycheck. Suck it up and do you frickin job. Leave Chad be. Just three weeks ago the whole nation was salivating at what celebration he could think up. Now he is a cancer.

Shouldnt Denver be the headline due to their questionable character issues they have now. Its funny too - Koren Robinson is back early from battling his demons at 110 mph. After his struggle with alcoholism and suspension(even though he had knee surgery, so he couldnt play anyway) he is now a success story. But Odells struggle is just a character issue.

Man I am so pumped up to beat the Steelers this week.

If Cleveland is first in the AFC North this Monday then it would be the perfect week.

[HoosierCat]

In an attempt to keep duus' thread from Pitt on topic, I have split these posts out into their own thread.

[HairOnFire]

In addition, the players have to know by now that most Bengals fans will never hold them accountable for their behavior. (Chad's NOT the problem!!!)

Well done guys, keep proving my point.

[Jet23]

As for teams that won SuperBowls with guys like Chad, I know a guy named Deion Sanders aka "Primetime" who was quite the character in his day. Chad's not keeping us from winning a SuperBowl, the defense is. As we all know defense wins championships and right now our defense is far from being a championship caliber defense.

Bad example. Deion won Championships and didn't diappear in big games. Everyone knows that Chad doesn't play defense, but has a divided locker room ever been a good thing? Like Carson, Chad has HOF potential. He should be part of the solution, not the problem. He needs to stop making his coach look like a fool.

Why is Deion a bad example, you asked for team that won with guys like Chad the Cowboys and 49er's both won with Deion, just the Buc's won with MeShawn, like the Cowboys won with Hollywood Henderson etc...Regardless of what the idiots at ESPN are saying, Chad is not the problem.

So your telling me that the locker room is divided and it's all Chad's fault. Who is your source or are you just making this up, sounds like the latter to me. I know it's en vouge thing to blame Chad for everything but that is not the answer to the problem.

If we had a defense that could stop the run and not give up big plays in the passing game this would be a non-issue and I'm not buying the "Chad is ruining the team" crap either. I would say everytime Madieu blows a coverage or Joseph wiffs on a tackle Marvin looks just as a bad as when he gets into an arguement with Chad on the sidelines. I think you guys discount how much emotion these guys play with, when your in the heat of the battle it's hard to have your emotions in check.

At this point we are 2-4 and everyone from Marvin on down needs to step it up, why Chad has become the whipping boy of the hour is beyond me.

It's Steeler's week, we need this game to stay alive in the division and for the season and the only thing everybody wants to talk about is how Chad is bad for the team because ESPN said so, that is ridiculous.

Like Chad, Deion talked a bunch of smack. Like Chad, Deion usually backed it up. Unlike Chad, Deion didn't pout when he was unable to back up his talk. Unlike Chad, Deion never threw a punch at an assitant coach in his team's most important game in more than a decade.

I have heard from Dave Lapham and Chick Ludwig that Chad is far from the most popular Bengal in the locker room. Both of those guys spend a lot more time in the locker room than us, that is for sure.

[The PatternMaster]

As for teams that won SuperBowls with guys like Chad, I know a guy named Deion Sanders aka "Primetime" who was quite the character in his day. Chad's not keeping us from winning a SuperBowl, the defense is. As we all know defense wins championships and right now our defense is far from being a championship caliber defense.

Bad example. Deion won Championships and didn't diappear in big games. Everyone knows that Chad doesn't play defense, but has a divided locker room ever been a good thing? Like Carson, Chad has HOF potential. He should be part of the solution, not the problem. He needs to stop making his coach look like a fool.

Why is Deion a bad example, you asked for team that won with guys like Chad the Cowboys and 49er's both won with Deion, just the Buc's won with MeShawn, like the Cowboys won with Hollywood Henderson etc...Regardless of what the idiots at ESPN are saying, Chad is not the problem.

So your telling me that the locker room is divided and it's all Chad's fault. Who is your source or are you just making this up, sounds like the latter to me. I know it's en vouge thing to blame Chad for everything but that is not the answer to the problem.

If we had a defense that could stop the run and not give up big plays in the passing game this would be a non-issue and I'm not buying the "Chad is ruining the team" crap either. I would say everytime Madieu blows a coverage or Joseph wiffs on a tackle Marvin looks just as a bad as when he gets into an arguement with Chad on the sidelines. I think you guys discount how much emotion these guys play with, when your in the heat of the battle it's hard to have your emotions in check.

At this point we are 2-4 and everyone from Marvin on down needs to step it up, why Chad has become the whipping boy of the hour is beyond me.

It's Steeler's week, we need this game to stay alive in the division and for the season and the only thing everybody wants to talk about is how Chad is bad for the team because ESPN said so, that is ridiculous.

Like Chad, Deion talked a bunch of smack. Like Chad, Deion usually backed it up. Unlike Chad, Deion didn't pout when he was unable to back up his talk. Unlike Chad, Deion never threw a punch at an assitant coach in his team's most important game in more than a decade.

I have heard from Dave Lapham and Chick Ludwig that Chad is far from the most popular Bengal in the locker room. Both of those guys spend a lot more time in the locker room than us, that is for sure.

Please stop with the rumors, you don't know that Chad threw a punch at anyone, just stop it Mike Florio, ok? Just because he's not everyone's best friend doesn't mean he's dividing the locker room either, there is a difference. Also Chick Ludwig doesn't have his finger on the pulse of the Bengals lockerroom, you need to lay off the ESPN and PFT.com for a least one month.

[The PatternMaster]

In addition, the players have to know by now that most Bengals fans will never hold them accountable for their behavior. (Chad's NOT the problem!!!)

Well done guys, keep proving my point.

so Hair, going into the season were you more concerned with the defense performance or Chad's post-TD celebrations? Be honest.

The media has made Chad into a problem, the performance of the defense is THE problem. Chad is the best wr in football this year, once again the defense is damn near in last place, you tell me whose the problem. It's not our job to hold players accountable for their behavior, that's the coaches job. Many fans love Chad's behavior, he's quite popular with the kids if you didn't know.

Did you know that Chad started some fires in southern California, damn you Chad Johnson!!!! Are you happy now?

[HairOnFire]

Nothing says asshat quite like Chad Johnson being interviewed.

The Bengals' wide receiver, in an interview published in the Nov. 7 issue of GQ magazine, muses that he might have been better off in an individual sport.

"The way I am," he told Nate Penn in an August sitdown at Johnson's Cincinnati residence, "I should be a boxer, I should be a tennis player, I should be a golfer - because those are individual sports."

Then he added, in an assessment his critics would surely agree with:

"I'm playing a team game, but the way I approach the game, it's like I'm playing by myself."

Johnson has no desire to be a leader, despite the urging of head coach Marvin Lewis. "I don't like that role. Other people just go into the game and hope they win. I'm telling you I'm going to. And that means everybody else has to step up, too."

[HairOnFire]

It's not our job to hold players accountable for their behavior, that's the coaches job.

So if the coaches and front office decide that Chad needs to be traded you'll support their choice?

[kingwilly]

This seems more and more about Chad celebrating and less and less about his blow-ups when things don't work out.

As it relates to the team and the Defense, it is a balancing act. If the D were even just a small bit better, it would not seem so drastic when a play goes wrong or a route is blown. It would also mean that when Chad scores a TD, a celebration might be in order.

Under the pressure of a tight game, like KC and Seattle, had the D been even a bit better (healthier/more effective) these games would not ave been close. Win those and then the issues in the NE game are not so extreme. Then where is the story?

This entire situation is a story generation from the media.

Chad does not play on Defense. The Defense does not play poorly because they resent Chad. Carson does not throw bad passes to make Chad angry. Chad does not act like a fool just to disrespect ML.

Look at it this way. Let's say Chad stops doing TD celebrations. Will that make him try harder, practice harder, work harder?

Will it make the D play better, Thornton get off a block or Leon learn the CB position faster? Will it make Special Teams be more disciplined?

No, no and no.

This is a non-story.

[BengalByTheBay]

Nothing says asshat quite like Chad Johnson being interviewed.

The Bengals' wide receiver, in an interview published in the Nov. 7 issue of GQ magazine, muses that he might have been better off in an individual sport.

"The way I am," he told Nate Penn in an August sitdown at Johnson's Cincinnati residence, "I should be a boxer, I should be a tennis player, I should be a golfer - because those are individual sports."

Then he added, in an assessment his critics would surely agree with:

"I'm playing a team game, but the way I approach the game, it's like I'm playing by myself."

Johnson has no desire to be a leader, despite the urging of head coach Marvin Lewis. "I don't like that role. Other people just go into the game and hope they win. I'm telling you I'm going to. And that means everybody else has to step up, too."

I'm convinced there's a complete, and misleading, over-emphasis on what 85 says in interviews. He can be easily lead and consistently contradicts himself in interviews. The whole Keyshawn interview was full of statements that he immediately backtracked on. He's a "good" interview in the sense that he says a lot of things, but when you listen to it as a whole, it's filled with so many contradictions that it's pretty clear that Chad doesn't really know what Chad thinks about much of anything. He likes to have people be interested in him. He likes to claim that nobody understands him. He likes to talk about how he came from nothing. And he likes to play the victim. But he doesn't like to sound as if he doesn't care about the team except inadvertently. Whether he really does care about the team, or only Chad, is subject to interpretation, but all the interviews I've seen shed little light on that basic question.

IMO he spices up interviews with "quotable" comments because he likes the attention he gets from them. I do believe he lives & dies with wins and losses and, to that extent, the success of the team is his goal. I am also completely ready to believe that he's kind of a difficult teammate because everything he does appears calculated to bring attention to just Chad. So, while he may not be a perfect teammate, I just don't see him being a chemistry problem like, say, Corey Dillon, who never missed a chance to say he wanted to leave. Just my opinion.

[HoosierCat]

In addition, the players have to know by now that most Bengals fans will never hold them accountable for their behavior. (Chad's NOT the problem!!!)

Well done guys, keep proving my point.

So the fans ought to do exactly...what? Start chadjohnsonsucks.com? Fly aerial banners that read "CUT OCHO STINKO!!!" over PBS? Boycott home games until the Bengals cut Chad?

None of that has ever budged the organization before, and it wouldn't now. At "best," it just bums Chad out and his play falls off -- and isn't that just a great idea?

The Chad issue has nothing to do with the fans. It has to do with Chad Johnson being who he is, and a bargain-hunting Bengals organization that took him knowing full well what he was.

If the Pats' experiences with Dillon and Moss have any lesson, it's this: you can have head cases, keep them under control, and get them to perform ONLY when you already have a professional locker room in which to place them. The Bengals have never been concerned with building such a locker room; they way they willfully ignore character is equivalent to gift-wrapping the asylum for the head cases. Pickens, Scott, Dillon, Odell, Wilkinson, Nicholson, Henry, Chad, Mack...the list goes on and on.

The Bengals, not the fans, got themselves into this spot. It's their responsibility to get out.

[Jet23]

Everyone assumes that Chad is emotional, because he hates to lose. Could it be that he flips out, because for whatever reason, he is unable to back up his talk. When he was upset about being called down on the 1, was he mad because he feared the Bengals wouldn't score? Not likely. Was he upset because he had this great new routine he wanted to show off?......more likely.

Carson is not perfect, but he takes way too many bullets for this guy. It has to wear on him. Chad has to realize that sometimes a defense can take you away, allowing your teammates to make the plays. A 'team player' would realize this and not pout and put pressure on the qb to force a ball your way.

[The PatternMaster]

Nothing says asshat quite like Chad Johnson being interviewed.

The Bengals' wide receiver, in an interview published in the Nov. 7 issue of GQ magazine, muses that he might have been better off in an individual sport.

"The way I am," he told Nate Penn in an August sitdown at Johnson's Cincinnati residence, "I should be a boxer, I should be a tennis player, I should be a golfer - because those are individual sports."

Then he added, in an assessment his critics would surely agree with:

"I'm playing a team game, but the way I approach the game, it's like I'm playing by myself."

Johnson has no desire to be a leader, despite the urging of head coach Marvin Lewis. "I don't like that role. Other people just go into the game and hope they win. I'm telling you I'm going to. And that means everybody else has to step up, too."

Just Chad being Chad..hey atleast he's honest.

Like he said, he's not a leader or doesn't claim to be. I think the problem is he puts his expectation on others that they can't live up to. Not necessarily a bad thing.

[The PatternMaster]

It's not our job to hold players accountable for their behavior, that's the coaches job.

So if the coaches and front office decide that Chad needs to be traded you'll support their choice?

I would but I don't think they would come to that conclusion, Mortenson already said he made up that stuff about trading Chad, no one in the front office is thinking of trading one of the most popular and productive players in franchise history.

[volcom69]

I am so sick of hearing this Chad Johnson thing anymore no he is not the reason this team is losing, but i just wonder how the locker room is right now with all of this going on. Im just so sick of it can this team just go out and play football without anyone mentioning these stupid comments.

[agreen_112]

Seriously, I can't believe this is even being talked about. NO WAY IN HELL CHAD GETS TRADED.

[Jet23]

Seriously, I can't believe this is even being talked about. NO WAY IN HELL CHAD GETS TRADED.

I don't want him to be traded, I actually like the guy, I just want him to knock it off a bit. I am just so tired of the different agendas. The New England Patriots have 1 agenda, to win a Super Bowl. SOP wouldn't mind that either, provided he made every nickel he is making now. SOP's agenda is money, and everyone knows it. I really think Chad wants to win, but he damn well better look good doing it. Chad's true agenda is to be a star.

I'm tired of this crap too. Stuff like this is allowed to fester because of WEAK MANAGEMENT. It kills me how beaten down this city is. Heck, we will accept mediocrity, as long as we get our time on Sports Center. Who the heck cares how much attention Chad brings to Cincinnati! That garners them exactly how many wins?

[bwillycuse]

Nothing says asshat quite like Chad Johnson being interviewed.

lol - it is painful to hear Chad talking to Adam Shine and Miller on Sirius on Fridays. He isnt a good interview at all.

[The PatternMaster]

You guys realize all of this trade Chad nonsense was started by the media, Chris Mortenson to be exact..

ESPN's Chris Mortensen doesn't think his report citing a prominent Bengals source on Sunday regarding Chad Johnson was misquoted, but he does think it was misinterpreted.

"There were two parts to it," Mortensen said Wednesday. "The first part dealt with the source saying that because of Chad's passion and pride, they have to figure out a way to deal with him. The second part was my analysis that the discussions could bring them to a crossroads and that could involve a trade. At no time did a Bengals source tell me they could possibly trade him."

[Bengals.com

[HairOnFire]

Under the pressure of a tight game, like KC and Seattle, had the D been even a bit better (healthier/more effective) these games would not ave been close. Win those and then the issues in the NE game are not so extreme. Then where is the story?

Just guessing, but I'd say the back story would have focused how inept the offense was playing in those games.