More Chad Talk

[BengalByTheBay]

If a double standard exists, and it obviously does, then why should I be ashamed to acknowledge it? Haven't I correctly acknowledged the very same double standard in hundreds of posts written during the "Character Wars"? And haven't I acknowledged that while a double standard my be deplorable, you ignore it's impact at your own risk?

So, it's okay if TJ calls out the coach, but it's not okay for Chad to do TD dances and commercials? Exactly what double-standard are you referring to in connection with "character"? You've lose me completely. And acknowledging that your opinion is "deplorable" while continuing to try to support it seems odd, at best.

As to you -- I'm saying that you delight in attacking CJ for behavior that calls attention to himself -- at best a neutral act in my book -- but you have no problem when your favorite, TJ, "goes to the press" with comments directed at the team. I get it -- you don't like Chad and you like TJ -- resulting in your incredible ability to make excuses for one and not the other. I'm saying there's no reason to make excuses for either when they make damaging comments. After all, isn't what started this the whole idea that Chad's a distraction and hurting the team? All of your heated championing of TJ seems misplaced when he's basically directly made himself a Corey Dillon like distraction by criticizing the coach to the media. If that's the type of conduct you think is okay as long as nobody's doing a dance in the end zone then fine for you.

As far as ignoring anything at my "own risk" -- again, you've lost me. I'm not risking anything by observing the current blatant two-facing of Chad. Sure, he brought himself into the light and he has to deal with the "build 'em up and tear 'em down" spotlight. I don't disagree that is Chad's cross to bear. But I don't see how that translates into hurting the team.

[HairOnFire]

So, it's okay if TJ calls out the coach, but it's not okay for Chad to do TD dances and commercials?

I've repeatedly said that my problems with Chad don't have a great deal to do with his TD celebrations and almost nothing to do with any commercials he's made. So again, if you're going to play a role in this debate...how about responding to what I'm saying?

Exactly what double-standard are you referring to in connection with "character"?

Weren't you paying attention to the press during the last year and a half?

And acknowledging that your opinion is "deplorable" while continuing to try to support it seems odd, at best.

Please, you're not stupid. I acknowledged the double standard you're complaining about, admitted it was deplorable, and then said you'd have to be naive to ignore it's impact. So what is it you're having such a hard time understanding?

I'm saying that you delight in attacking CJ for behavior that calls attention to himself -- at best a neutral act in my book -- but you have no problem when your favorite, TJ, "goes to the press" with comments directed at the team. I get it -- you don't like Chad and you like TJ -- resulting in your incredible ability to make excuses for one and not the other.

Why shouldn't you get it? After all, you're obviously attempting to make excuses for Chad's behavior by overstating the things TJ does. I say, good luck with that.

I'm saying there's no reason to make excuses for either when they make damaging comments.

And I'm saying your attempts to compare Chad's behavior to TJ's are laughable. At best you can find a common point now and then, but what's that worth?

I'm not risking anything by observing the current blatant two-facing of Chad. Sure, he brought himself into the light and he has to deal with the "build 'em up and tear 'em down" spotlight. I don't disagree that is Chad's cross to bear. But I don't see how that translates into hurting the team.

Ask yourself a simple question. Does press coverage have any impact on the team or on one of it's players?

[BengalByTheBay]

So, it's okay if TJ calls out the coach, but it's not okay for Chad to do TD dances and commercials?

I've repeatedly said that my problems with Chad don't have a great deal to do with his TD celebrations and almost nothing to do with any commercials he's made. So again, if you're going to play a role in this debate...how about responding to what I'm saying?

But you conveniently ignored my direct question about what exactly it is that Chad does that has you so exercised. I asked it about 12 different ways and you never did address it. You gonna do it this time, or will it spin around again with no answer?

And I would say "no" -- "press coverage" alone doesn't affect the team negatively. CJ drawing attention to himself does not affect the team negatively. It's easy to support that because we have all agreed that he's been the same Chad since before 2005. So, the team has gone 11-5 and its gone 8-8 with "Chad being Chad." Trade rumors - especially when they're completely and admittedly made up - don't negatively affect the team either as far as I can see. On the other hand, players saying the offense coordinator doesn't throw them the ball and the head coach made the wrong judgment call does affect the team negatively.

[BengalByTheBay]

Exactly what double-standard are you referring to in connection with "character"?

Weren't you paying attention to the press during the last year and a half?

Sure -- the question of character risk vs. talent level was completely overanalyzed. As I recall, the issue was whether it was worth risking draft picks on guys who were more likely to get into trouble than others. I have trouble matching that up with a double-standard, which is treating the same behavior two different ways. What was your point?

[HairOnFire]

But you conveniently ignored my direct question about what exactly it is that Chad does that has you so exercised. I asked it about 12 different ways and you never did address it. You gonna do it this time, or will it spin around again with no answer?

If you've asked the question a dozen different way you've ignored the dozen or so ways I've answered every time. I've said point blank that a player can't ask for a huge salary and for the offense to be built around him and then defer leadership to others. And I've said point plank that a player can't play individually within a team sport. And when it comes to spinning things let me remind you that no matter how many times I mention those things, and no matter how I word them, you somehow can't seem to grasp what I'm saying, pretending that all I've ever complained about is stupid commercials and TD celebrations.

Again, for the last time....try responding to what I'm saying.

[HairOnFire]

And I would say "no" -- "press coverage" alone doesn't affect the team negatively. CJ drawing attention to himself does not affect the team negatively.

You're spinning....like a top.

I asked a simple question, if press coverage has any impact on a team. You promptly ducked the question. So, do you want to try again or do I need to ask the same question a dozen times?

[HairOnFire]

Exactly what double-standard are you referring to in connection with "character"?

Weren't you paying attention to the press during the last year and a half?

Sure -- the question of character risk vs. talent level was completely overanalyzed. As I recall, the issue was whether it was worth risking draft picks on guys who were more likely to get into trouble than others. I have trouble matching that up with a double-standard, which is treating the same behavior two different ways. What was your point?

Silently ask yourself these questions. Did the press use a double-standard when analyzing the Bengals draft strategy? Are the Bengals alone in the way they weigh risk and reward? Do other teams draft the same types of character risks as the Bengals? Were the Bengals the only team to have multiple player arrests last season? Were many of the Bengals arrests associated with players who weren't previously thought of as character risks? And in many examples did the press treat each arrest exactly the same...regardless of the seriousness of the charges?

It's obvious to me the press frequently uses a double-standard when reporting stories, and it's just as obvious that acknowledging the existence of that double-standard, or it's fundamental unfairmess, doesn't count for spit when it come to things like image. More importantly though, is the real impact of decisions that are made based upon that image.

[BengalByTheBay]

But you conveniently ignored my direct question about what exactly it is that Chad does that has you so exercised. I asked it about 12 different ways and you never did address it. You gonna do it this time, or will it spin around again with no answer?

If you've asked the question a dozen different way you've ignored the dozen or so ways I've answered every time. I've said point blank that a player can't ask for a huge salary and for the offense to be built around him and then defer leadership to others. And I've said point plank that a player can't play individually within a team sport. And when it comes to spinning things let me remind you that no matter how many times I mention those things, and no matter how I word them, you somehow can't seem to grasp what I'm saying, pretending that all I've ever complained about is stupid commercials and TD celebrations.

Again, for the last time....try responding to what I'm saying.

You're upset about Chad asking for a "huge salary"? I haven't heard him mention anything about money -- he's working off an extended contract and has been for more than a year. When has he asked for "the offese to be built around him"? No wonder you didn't answer the question before -- that's ridiculous. Every player asks for the biggest salary they can get. It's a free-market economy. If he's asking for a huge salary and he's not worth it he won't get it. In any event, you're defending trade rumors that began within the last couple of weeks by saying he's demanding a "huge salary" based on a deal renegotiated more than a year ago. The two have nothing to do with each other. Moreover, based on production and what he's being paid -- I'm guessing just about 31 other teams would say he's a good deal or underpaid.

And I don't recall any demands that the offense go through Chad -- certainly nothing recent. And if you're referring to last year or something like that -- it's certainly nothing different than what TJ is doing right now.

You're right that I didn't see that as answer to my question because it's even less legitimate than being pissed at TD dances and commercials. Forgive me not seeing that as the basis to your argument -- I had given you more credit.

[BengalByTheBay]

Silently ask yourself these questions. Did the press use a double-standard when analyzing the Bengals draft strategy? Are the Bengals alone in the way they weigh risk and reward? Do other teams draft the same types of character risks as the Bengals? Were the Bengals the only team to have multiple player arrests last season? Were many of the Bengals arrests associated with players who weren't previously thought of as character risks? And in many examples did the press treat each arrest exactly the same...regardless of the seriousness of the charges?

It's obvious to me the press frequently uses a double-standard when reporting stories, and it's just as obvious that acknowledging the existence of that double-standard, or it's fundamental unfairmess, doesn't count for spit when it come to things like image. More importantly though, is the real impact of decisions that are made based upon that image.

I prefer to ask myself the question (again) of what the heck that has to do with the point of this thread. Your double standard applied to TJ vs. Chad is the issue. If you're saying it's naive to think the press is reasonable, I can only repeat that reporting something stupid, while not surprising, shouldn't be assumed to be legitimate.

[BengalByTheBay]

And I would say "no" -- "press coverage" alone doesn't affect the team negatively. CJ drawing attention to himself does not affect the team negatively.

You're spinning....like a top.

I asked a simple question, if press coverage has any impact on a team. You promptly ducked the question. So, do you want to try again or do I need to ask the same question a dozen times?

Of course "press coverage" by itself doesn't necessarily have any impact on a team. There are reporters in the locker room after every game and interviews after every practice if they allow it. What has a potential impact is the nature of the story. And that only matters if the impact is negative -- so pardon me for skipping over your rhetorical question to focus on the substance of the thread. If that's spinning like a top, I suppose I will continue to spin so that you can avoid ignoring the point. If there's "press coverage" that "impacts the team" that is not negative -- like I said -- it 'aint a problem IMO. If there's "press coverage" and the player questions the coaches, team philosophy, other players in a negative way -- then I do think that's a problem. If Chad Johnson is asking for a "huge salary" how does that rise to the level of a team disruption? It doesn't and you're the only one who's talking about that. The reason CJ is a story right now is the Keyshawn interview and the trade rumors that he hasn't denied.

Rather than you and I ducking each other's questions, why don't we agree to disagree and let this thread die. It's only you & me talking to each other and, speaking only for myself, I've contributed to this circle-jerk long enough. I think I'm right & you're being a douche and you think you're right & I'm being a douche. I doubt 5 more pages will change that. Let's find something else to disagree about, shall we?

[HairOnFire]

But you conveniently ignored my direct question about what exactly it is that Chad does that has you so exercised. I asked it about 12 different ways and you never did address it. You gonna do it this time, or will it spin around again with no answer?

If you've asked the question a dozen different way you've ignored the dozen or so ways I've answered every time. I've said point blank that a player can't ask for a huge salary and for the offense to be built around him and then defer leadership to others. And I've said point plank that a player can't play individually within a team sport. And when it comes to spinning things let me remind you that no matter how many times I mention those things, and no matter how I word them, you somehow can't seem to grasp what I'm saying, pretending that all I've ever complained about is stupid commercials and TD celebrations.

Again, for the last time....try responding to what I'm saying.

You're upset about Chad asking for a "huge salary"?

I think we're done until you learn how to comprehend what you've read. (Hint: Not once have I complained about Chad asking for a huge salary.)

[HairOnFire]

You're right that I didn't see that as answer to my question because it's even less legitimate than being pissed at TD dances and commercials. Forgive me not seeing that as the basis to your argument -- I had given you more credit.

Until now I've given you too much credit for being able to comprehend what you read. No more.

[HairOnFire]

Rather than you and I ducking each other's questions, why don't we agree to disagree and let this thread die. It's only you & me talking to each other and, speaking only for myself, I've contributed to this circle-jerk long enough. I think I'm right & you're being a douche and you think you're right & I'm being a douche. I doubt 5 more pages will change that. Let's find something else to disagree about, shall we?

I haven't ducked a single one of your questions, and your refusal to respond to the things I'm actually saying only makes you a douche, not me. In fact, I think your attempts to portray TJ's behavior as exactly the same as Chad's, or even worse, is not only ridiculous, but ample proof of your intent to make this discussion a circle jerk.

As for letting the thread die, why not? Who could listen to five more pages of you ignoring the answers to your own questions, your empty excuses about how everything else is a bigger problem than Chad and thus ample reason to coddle him further, or another dozen examples of you uttering..."you've lost me."

Done.

[BengalByTheBay]

Rather than you and I ducking each other's questions, why don't we agree to disagree and let this thread die. It's only you & me talking to each other and, speaking only for myself, I've contributed to this circle-jerk long enough. I think I'm right & you're being a douche and you think you're right & I'm being a douche. I doubt 5 more pages will change that. Let's find something else to disagree about, shall we?

I haven't ducked a single one of your questions, and your refusal to respond to the things I'm actually saying only makes you a douche, not me. In fact, I think your attempts to portray TJ's behavior as exactly the same as Chad's, or even worse, is not only ridiculous, but ample proof of your intent to make this discussion a circle jerk.

As for letting the thread die, why not? Who could listen to five more pages of you ignoring the answers to your own questions, your empty excuses about how everything else is a bigger problem than Chad and thus ample reason to coddle him further, or another dozen examples of you uttering..."you've lost me."

Done.

What, no closing "fugtard"?