More Chad Talk

[HairOnFire]

I'm convinced there's a complete, and misleading, over-emphasis on what 85 says in interviews. He can be easily lead and consistently contradicts himself in interviews. The whole Keyshawn interview was full of statements that he immediately backtracked on.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you seem to be describing an unsophisticated person who lacks the skills needed to communicate properly in the media. Not that I disagree, but it does make you wonder why a person like that would seek out the media so often and demand it's constant attention, ehh?

And a quick question for those who insist on defending Chad. What are you suggesting everyone do when he plays the clown? Just ignore the guy? How is that even possible?

I am also completely ready to believe that he's kind of a difficult teammate because everything he does appears calculated to bring attention to just Chad. So, while he may not be a perfect teammate, I just don't see him being a chemistry problem like, say, Corey Dillon, who never missed a chance to say he wanted to leave.

Why does everything have to flow through a Corey Dillon filter? Chad may not be a malcontent, but long before any trade talk was heard I wrote a whole series of "More TJ/Less Chad" posts that were motivated by my belief that a football team might fare better if it's image were built around toughness and focus instead of the grinning mug of a hyperactive spastic manchild.

As for the issue of chemistry, I think you do have a problem when one of a teams best players demands constant attention and mucho coin, but repeatedly refuses all requests to lead or play within a team structure. In fact, Chad has repeatedly balked whenever he's been asked to simply stop acting like a fool.

[HairOnFire]

The Bengals, not the fans, got themselves into this spot. It's their responsibility to get out.

Can I count that as another vote in favor of trading Chad?

[HairOnFire]

Everyone assumes that Chad is emotional, because he hates to lose. Could it be that he flips out, because for whatever reason, he is unable to back up his talk. When he was upset about being called down on the 1, was he mad because he feared the Bengals wouldn't score? Not likely. Was he upset because he had this great new routine he wanted to show off?......more likely.

Carson is not perfect, but he takes way too many bullets for this guy. It has to wear on him. Chad has to realize that sometimes a defense can take you away, allowing your teammates to make the plays. A 'team player' would realize this and not pout and put pressure on the qb to force a ball your way.

Well said.

[HoosierCat]

The Bengals, not the fans, got themselves into this spot. It's their responsibility to get out.

Can I count that as another vote in favor of trading Chad?

I wouldn't object to it because the organization hasn't built a locker room capable of handling a Chad. Give me another 2-3 high character drafts like last years, and maybe a couple FA signings where we "overpay" for aging but good character vets, and then we can go back to looking at the Chads and Henrys and Odells in the draft and the Mossses in FA.

[BengalByTheBay]

I'm convinced there's a complete, and misleading, over-emphasis on what 85 says in interviews. He can be easily lead and consistently contradicts himself in interviews. The whole Keyshawn interview was full of statements that he immediately backtracked on.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you seem to be describing an unsophisticated person who lacks the skills needed to communicate properly in the media. Not that I disagree, but it does make you wonder why a person like that would seek out the media so often and demand it's constant attention, ehh?

And a quick question for those who insist on defending Chad. What are you suggesting everyone do when he plays the clown? Just ignore the guy? How is that even possible?

I am also completely ready to believe that he's kind of a difficult teammate because everything he does appears calculated to bring attention to just Chad. So, while he may not be a perfect teammate, I just don't see him being a chemistry problem like, say, Corey Dillon, who never missed a chance to say he wanted to leave.

Why does everything have to flow through a Corey Dillon filter? Chad may not be a malcontent, but long before any trade talk was heard I wrote a whole series of "More TJ/Less Chad" posts that were motivated by my belief that a football team might fare better if it's image were built around toughness and focus instead of the grinning mug of a hyperactive spastic manchild.

As for the issue of chemistry, I think you do have a problem when one of a teams best players demands constant attention and mucho coin, but repeatedly refuses all requests to lead or play within a team structure. In fact, Chad has repeatedly balked whenever he's been asked to simply stop acting like a fool.

Feel free to think that would cause a problem. That's your opinion. What I'm hearing from the current media bleat is that Chad is all-of-the-sudden a team killer when, by all appearances, he is what he has pretty much been for the past several years. My principal point is that it's disingenuous to claim you like the guy (which pretty much every hack does) and that he's just "funloving" when the team is winning, and then dump the entire weight of whatever is causing the team to lose on him when they lose. I know you're not a CJ fan, but even you have to see that this latest round of bashing Chad for being immature is pretty ridiculous. First of all, production-wise, he's still pretty much doing what he always does. So, blaming the 4 losses on CJ is just wrong. Second, latching on to the Whitlock rant that Chad is a "bojangles" or whatever is just lame. In this day and age, suggesting that a black man who's vying for attention and a media whore is somehow playing the white man's game is totally offensive. Sports is irrevocably tied to marketing and Chad's just doing what tons of other athletes and celebrities want to do -- only he's been more successful at it. If he's playing the fool -- guess who the joke is on.

As for putting the words in my mouth, you're missing the point. Chad may be inherently contridictory if you listen to him, but nobody is really listening. They're eating up the quotes and overlooking the hedges. He's not saying much of anything -- certainly not anything new. He's actually right when he says "I'm not going to change." He hasn't changed. He's always "spoken his mind" even if it doesn't amount to much of anything. As for being "unsophisticated" I would suggest to you that someone who craves attention, does an interview which is garnering such incredible (over-inflated IMO) interest and re-play, is anything but unsophisticated. Similarly, he certainly doesn't lack the skills to work the media -- look at your tv. He's getting all the attention in the world and his team is all of 2-4. He hasn't once bashed the team. He has said on every recent occasion that it's not the right thing to celebrate when his team is losing....isn't that a team-first attitude? Again, everybody wants to hear that he hasn't denied that he might play somewhere else, but he hasn't crapped on the team once by my count -- unless you completely read into what he says something that's not there. So, he certainly hasn't gone to the (much easier to play) TO card that everybody hates him and he would be so great if he were just on another team.

You have correctly perceived that I don't believe that Chad is the sharpest tool in the shed. That said, he obviously doesn't have to be a genius to get a lot of attention, as you correctly concede ("is it even possible"). I believe he's more like a media savy idoit savant. People like to hear him talk -- no matter what gibberish he's talking.

Finally, I compare CJ to Dillon because it's the obvious contradiction. What's missing from the "Chad as team killer" argument is that he doesn't crap on the team. The overwhelming suggestion that he's ruining the character of the team seems stupid to me. Was he ruining the team when it went 11-5? No. You can claim all you want that he made the team lose the PO game by going crazy at halftime, but you and I don't know anything about it. You might as well be Florio at that point -- cause you don't have anything to back it up. And if CJ did explode at halftime, I totally get it. His guy is lying on a gurney while Kitna is (predictably) just about to shot-put the game. If you can tell me that you honestly felt like Kitna would win that game, I will lose a lot of my current respect for your understanding of this team. Nonetheless, I didn't see CJ do anything to warrant putting that loss on his shoulders. On the contrary, I did see CJ do a lot to get the team to the playoffs to begin with.

Maybe you don't want Chad to be the face of the team -- fair enough. You want somebody tough -- presumably on the defense, right? Who do you elect. I don't see anybody grabbing the mantle of team leadership that is putting a "tough" stamp on it. I happen to think Carson's doing a pretty good job. I like him. I like his humility and willingness to put defeats on him -- even when it's obviously not his fault. That said -- I don't fault Chad for not being Palmer. I think the two personalities can coexist. The fact that CJ gets more run than Palmer is attributable to Chad's love of the spotlight, Palmer's humility, and the fact that the public wants something a little more dynamic. It is what it is and it's hardly surprising. Chad is bling. Do I care if he's the face of the team? Hell no. I'm also going to call it for what it is when the going gets a little tough and all the sudden Chad the media darling becomes Chad the distraction/disruption. BS -- he hasn't changed and I don't see any reason he should. It's much ado about nothing and nothing that winning some games won't silence. And I'll be the first one to point out when Chad has a bad game -- because he does. But so does Palmer and whoever else you can mention on the team.

[HairOnFire]

I don't want him to be traded, I actually like the guy, I just want him to knock it off a bit. I am just so tired of the different agendas. The New England Patriots have 1 agenda, to win a Super Bowl. SOP wouldn't mind that either, provided he made every nickel he is making now. SOP's agenda is money, and everyone knows it. I really think Chad wants to win, but he damn well better look good doing it. Chad's true agenda is to be a star.

Once again, well said.

One other branch of Bob Trumpy's familiar rant is based upon the belief that Bengals players are incapable of truly buying into any head coaches plan. Instead, they're drafted by a team they don't want to play for, dictating they live in a city they don't want to be in, and play for a franchise they don't really believe can win championships. So they never really"buy in" and never really commit to anything beyond cashing a check for as long as possible. Or for the chosen few....doing whatever they can to become the biggest fish in the NFL's smallest pond.

The above rant has always dovetailed very nicely with Paul Daugherty's screed about the Bengals turning great players into average players and average players into busts. They come, unpack, and quickly and unexpectedly fail in every way possible except for financially.

The funny thing about both rants is how rarely a Bengals fan will question why a player will accept failure simply because he can. And along those same lines, why are so many of us so quick to defend an asshat or a malcontent?

[Spor_tees]

I don't want him to be traded, I actually like the guy, I just want him to knock it off a bit. I am just so tired of the different agendas. The New England Patriots have 1 agenda, to win a Super Bowl. SOP wouldn't mind that either, provided he made every nickel he is making now. SOP's agenda is money, and everyone knows it. I really think Chad wants to win, but he damn well better look good doing it. Chad's true agenda is to be a star.

Once again, well said.

One other branch of Bob Trumpy's familiar rant is based upon the belief that Bengals players are incapable of truly buying into any head coaches plan. Instead, they're drafted by a team they don't want to play for, dictating they live in a city they don't want to be in, and play for a franchise they don't really believe can win championships. So they never really"buy in" and never really commit to anything beyond cashing a check for as long as possible. Or for the chosen few....doing whatever they can to become the biggest fish in the NFL's smallest pond.

The above rant has always dovetailed very nicely with Paul Daugherty's screed about the Bengals turning great players into average plays and average players into busts. They come, unpack, and quickly and unexpectedly fail in every way possible except for financially.

The funny thing about both rants is how rarely a Bengals fan will question why a player will accept failure simply because he can. And along those smae lines, why are so many of us so quick to defend an asshat or a malcontent?

But do you notice that most of the time when a player that most fans think is a big signing or a fairly decent player, gets cut by the Bengals he rarely even surfaces with another team let alone make an impact? Where is Sam Adams now? Can anyone name a player that left the Bengals and actually made something of themselves OTHER than Dillon who might have just been at the right place at the right time? Pickens never really had a good year after he left...and the only guy that came even close was Big Daddy...

[BengalByTheBay]

But do you notice that most of the time when a player that most fans think is a big signing or a fairly decent player, gets cut by the Bengals he rarely even surfaces with another team let alone make an impact? Where is Sam Adams now? Can anyone name a player that left the Bengals and actually made something of themselves OTHER than Dillon who might have just been at the right place at the right time? Pickens never really had a good year after he left...and the only guy that came even close was Big Daddy...

I dunno. Steve Foley was doing pretty damn well before he got shot. Lamont Thompson played for the Titans for awhile. There were a few. BTW - Sam is in Denver.

As for the Bengals ruining players (ie, making them "average"), since this thread is about CJ, I just have to point out that there's nothing average about him or his game -- like him or hate him. He's an elite receiver from whom little was expected except character problems when he was drafted.

[HoosierCat]

Feel free to think that would cause a problem. That's your opinion. What I'm hearing from the current media bleat is that Chad is all-of-the-sudden a team killer when, by all appearances, he is what he has pretty much been for the past several years. My principal point is that it's disingenuous to claim you like the guy (which pretty much every hack does) and that he's just "funloving" when the team is winning, and then dump the entire weight of whatever is causing the team to lose on him when they lose. I know you're not a CJ fan, but even you have to see that this latest round of bashing Chad for being immature is pretty ridiculous. First of all, production-wise, he's still pretty much doing what he always does. So, blaming the 4 losses on CJ is just wrong. Second, latching on to the Whitlock rant that Chad is a "bojangles" or whatever is just lame. In this day and age, suggesting that a black man who's vying for attention and a media whore is somehow playing the white man's game is totally offensive. Sports is irrevocably tied to marketing and Chad's just doing what tons of other athletes and celebrities want to do -- only he's been more successful at it. If he's playing the fool -- guess who the joke is on.

As for putting the words in my mouth, you're missing the point. Chad may be inherently contridictory if you listen to him, but nobody is really listening. They're eating up the quotes and overlooking the hedges. He's not saying much of anything -- certainly not anything new. He's actually right when he says "I'm not going to change." He hasn't changed. He's always "spoken his mind" even if it doesn't amount to much of anything. As for being "unsophisticated" I would suggest to you that someone who craves attention, does an interview which is garnering such incredible (over-inflated IMO) interest and re-play, is anything but unsophisticated. Similarly, he certainly doesn't lack the skills to work the media -- look at your tv. He's getting all the attention in the world and his team is all of 2-4. He hasn't once bashed the team. He has said on every recent occasion that it's not the right thing to celebrate when his team is losing....isn't that a team-first attitude? Again, everybody wants to hear that he hasn't denied that he might play somewhere else, but he hasn't crapped on the team once by my count -- unless you completely read into what he says something that's not there. So, he certainly hasn't gone to the (much easier to play) TO card that everybody hates him and he would be so great if he were just on another team.

You have correctly perceived that I don't believe that Chad is the sharpest tool in the shed. That said, he obviously doesn't have to be a genius to get a lot of attention, as you correctly concede ("is it even possible"). I believe he's more like a media savy idoit savant. People like to hear him talk -- no matter what gibberish he's talking.

Finally, I compare CJ to Dillon because it's the obvious contradiction. What's missing from the "Chad as team killer" argument is that he doesn't crap on the team. The overwhelming suggestion that he's ruining the character of the team seems stupid to me. Was he ruining the team when it went 11-5? No. You can claim all you want that he made the team lose the PO game by going crazy at halftime, but you and I don't know anything about it. You might as well be Florio at that point -- cause you don't have anything to back it up. And if CJ did explode at halftime, I totally get it. His guy is lying on a gurney while Kitna is (predictably) just about to shot-put the game. If you can tell me that you honestly felt like Kitna would win that game, I will lose a lot of my current respect for your understanding of this team. Nonetheless, I didn't see CJ do anything to warrant putting that loss on his shoulders. On the contrary, I did see CJ do a lot to get the team to the playoffs to begin with.

Maybe you don't want Chad to be the face of the team -- fair enough. You want somebody tough -- presumably on the defense, right? Who do you elect. I don't see anybody grabbing the mantle of team leadership that is putting a "tough" stamp on it. I happen to think Carson's doing a pretty good job. I like him. I like his humility and willingness to put defeats on him -- even when it's obviously not his fault. That said -- I don't fault Chad for not being Palmer. I think the two personalities can coexist. The fact that CJ gets more run than Palmer is attributable to Chad's love of the spotlight, Palmer's humility, and the fact that the public wants something a little more dynamic. It is what it is and it's hardly surprising. Chad is bling. Do I care if he's the face of the team? Hell no. I'm also going to call it for what it is when the going gets a little tough and all the sudden Chad the media darling becomes Chad the distraction/disruption. BS -- he hasn't changed and I don't see any reason he should. It's much ado about nothing and nothing that winning some games won't silence. And I'll be the first one to point out when Chad has a bad game -- because he does. But so does Palmer and whoever else you can mention on the team.

That gets my nomination for post of the month...nay...the year...

[Spor_tees]

But do you notice that most of the time when a player that most fans think is a big signing or a fairly decent player, gets cut by the Bengals he rarely even surfaces with another team let alone make an impact? Where is Sam Adams now? Can anyone name a player that left the Bengals and actually made something of themselves OTHER than Dillon who might have just been at the right place at the right time? Pickens never really had a good year after he left...and the only guy that came even close was Big Daddy...

I dunno. Steve Foley was doing pretty damn well before he got shot. Lamont Thompson played for the Titans for awhile. There were a few. BTW - Sam is in Denver.

As for the Bengals ruining players (ie, making them "average"), since this thread is about CJ, I just have to point out that there's nothing average about him or his game -- like him or hate him. He's an elite receiver from whom little was expected except character problems when he was drafted.

Steve "Mr. DUI and Fight with the Po-Po" Foley? Maybe Cincy didn't keep him for a reason. Which I know is quite hard to believe considering all the other guys...but hey we can assume right? LaMont Thompson never made a Pro-Bowl or anything...point is, the Bengals have never released or traded a guy that was a Randy Moss....or someone that was still actually good. Serviceable sometimes, actually rarely, but not good.

[BengalByTheBay]

Steve "Mr. DUI and Fight with the Po-Po" Foley? Maybe Cincy didn't keep him for a reason. Which I know is quite hard to believe considering all the other guys...but hey we can assume right? LaMont Thompson never made a Pro-Bowl or anything...point is, the Bengals have never released or traded a guy that was a Randy Moss....or someone that was still actually good. Serviceable sometimes, actually rarely, but not good.

I think you're right that the Bengals (and the Chargers for that matter) were well aware that Foley was a nut-job. He was sure able to get after the QB playing the end for San Diego though. Yeah, I was never real fond of Thompson's game. I do recall some highlights where he got a few picks playing for the Titans. He was such a gambler though that I'm certain he got burned way more times than he made a play. TKO could've had a chance to succeed in Buffalo if he hadn't gotten hurt. Hey, probably the best one would be Neil Rackers -- he loves kicking in AZ. In any event, your point is well-taken that there are few examples of former Bengals getting resurrected elsewhere. Whether that's because their spriit was broken or whether they just weren't as good as they were supposed to be is a good question.

[Spor_tees]

Steve "Mr. DUI and Fight with the Po-Po" Foley? Maybe Cincy didn't keep him for a reason. Which I know is quite hard to believe considering all the other guys...but hey we can assume right? LaMont Thompson never made a Pro-Bowl or anything...point is, the Bengals have never released or traded a guy that was a Randy Moss....or someone that was still actually good. Serviceable sometimes, actually rarely, but not good.

I think you're right that the Bengals (and the Chargers for that matter) were well aware that Foley was a nut-job. He was sure able to get after the QB playing the end for San Diego though. Yeah, I was never real fond of Thompson's game. I do recall some highlights where he got a few picks playing for the Titans. He was such a gambler though that I'm certain he got burned way more times than he made a play. TKO could've had a chance to succeed in Buffalo if he hadn't gotten hurt. Hey, probably the best one would be Neil Rackers -- he loves kicking in AZ. In any event, your point is well-taken that there are few examples of former Bengals getting resurrected elsewhere. Whether that's because their spriit was broken or whether they just weren't as good as they were supposed to be is a good question.

Actually Rackers is probably the best example, but the answer to him is obvious, it was all mental. Losing and being depended upon so heavily as a kicker. When on the rare occasion the Bengals were in the game and had a shot, a lot of the time it came down on Rackers shoulders to determine the outcome of the game. Obviously when he missed it weighed more heavily on him than it would on a guy like Vinatari who's teams won more often. It was never a case of talent or leg strength, and the change of scenery has done wonders for his career.

After giving a little more thought to it, the only person close to a star that still played well after leaving the Bengals that I can think of is Boomer. He didn't go to any Pro-Bowls as a Cardinal or Jet, but he did throw some 300+ yard games and still looked like a starting NFL QB.

[BengalByTheBay]

After giving a little more thought to it, the only person close to a star that still played well after leaving the Bengals that I can think of is Boomer. He didn't go to any Pro-Bowls as a Cardinal or Jet, but he did throw some 300+ yard games and still looked like a starting NFL QB.

Yeah, it's easy to overlook the obvious, huh? In fact, Boomer had a game for the Cards against the Redskins in which he set the (then) record for passing yards in a single game of something over 500 yards. I remember because my buddy is a 'skins fan and I gave him endless crap for that one.

[The PatternMaster]

I'm convinced there's a complete, and misleading, over-emphasis on what 85 says in interviews. He can be easily lead and consistently contradicts himself in interviews. The whole Keyshawn interview was full of statements that he immediately backtracked on.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you seem to be describing an unsophisticated person who lacks the skills needed to communicate properly in the media. Not that I disagree, but it does make you wonder why a person like that would seek out the media so often and demand it's constant attention, ehh?

And a quick question for those who insist on defending Chad. What are you suggesting everyone do when he plays the clown? Just ignore the guy? How is that even possible?

I am also completely ready to believe that he's kind of a difficult teammate because everything he does appears calculated to bring attention to just Chad. So, while he may not be a perfect teammate, I just don't see him being a chemistry problem like, say, Corey Dillon, who never missed a chance to say he wanted to leave.

Why does everything have to flow through a Corey Dillon filter? Chad may not be a malcontent, but long before any trade talk was heard I wrote a whole series of "More TJ/Less Chad" posts that were motivated by my belief that a football team might fare better if it's image were built around toughness and focus instead of the grinning mug of a hyperactive spastic manchild.

As for the issue of chemistry, I think you do have a problem when one of a teams best players demands constant attention and mucho coin, but repeatedly refuses all requests to lead or play within a team structure. In fact, Chad has repeatedly balked whenever he's been asked to simply stop acting like a fool.

Feel free to think that would cause a problem. That's your opinion. What I'm hearing from the current media bleat is that Chad is all-of-the-sudden a team killer when, by all appearances, he is what he has pretty much been for the past several years. My principal point is that it's disingenuous to claim you like the guy (which pretty much every hack does) and that he's just "funloving" when the team is winning, and then dump the entire weight of whatever is causing the team to lose on him when they lose. I know you're not a CJ fan, but even you have to see that this latest round of bashing Chad for being immature is pretty ridiculous. First of all, production-wise, he's still pretty much doing what he always does. So, blaming the 4 losses on CJ is just wrong. Second, latching on to the Whitlock rant that Chad is a "bojangles" or whatever is just lame. In this day and age, suggesting that a black man who's vying for attention and a media whore is somehow playing the white man's game is totally offensive. Sports is irrevocably tied to marketing and Chad's just doing what tons of other athletes and celebrities want to do -- only he's been more successful at it. If he's playing the fool -- guess who the joke is on.

As for putting the words in my mouth, you're missing the point. Chad may be inherently contridictory if you listen to him, but nobody is really listening. They're eating up the quotes and overlooking the hedges. He's not saying much of anything -- certainly not anything new. He's actually right when he says "I'm not going to change." He hasn't changed. He's always "spoken his mind" even if it doesn't amount to much of anything. As for being "unsophisticated" I would suggest to you that someone who craves attention, does an interview which is garnering such incredible (over-inflated IMO) interest and re-play, is anything but unsophisticated. Similarly, he certainly doesn't lack the skills to work the media -- look at your tv. He's getting all the attention in the world and his team is all of 2-4. He hasn't once bashed the team. He has said on every recent occasion that it's not the right thing to celebrate when his team is losing....isn't that a team-first attitude? Again, everybody wants to hear that he hasn't denied that he might play somewhere else, but he hasn't crapped on the team once by my count -- unless you completely read into what he says something that's not there. So, he certainly hasn't gone to the (much easier to play) TO card that everybody hates him and he would be so great if he were just on another team.

You have correctly perceived that I don't believe that Chad is the sharpest tool in the shed. That said, he obviously doesn't have to be a genius to get a lot of attention, as you correctly concede ("is it even possible"). I believe he's more like a media savy idoit savant. People like to hear him talk -- no matter what gibberish he's talking.

Finally, I compare CJ to Dillon because it's the obvious contradiction. What's missing from the "Chad as team killer" argument is that he doesn't crap on the team. The overwhelming suggestion that he's ruining the character of the team seems stupid to me. Was he ruining the team when it went 11-5? No. You can claim all you want that he made the team lose the PO game by going crazy at halftime, but you and I don't know anything about it. You might as well be Florio at that point -- cause you don't have anything to back it up. And if CJ did explode at halftime, I totally get it. His guy is lying on a gurney while Kitna is (predictably) just about to shot-put the game. If you can tell me that you honestly felt like Kitna would win that game, I will lose a lot of my current respect for your understanding of this team. Nonetheless, I didn't see CJ do anything to warrant putting that loss on his shoulders. On the contrary, I did see CJ do a lot to get the team to the playoffs to begin with.

Maybe you don't want Chad to be the face of the team -- fair enough. You want somebody tough -- presumably on the defense, right? Who do you elect. I don't see anybody grabbing the mantle of team leadership that is putting a "tough" stamp on it. I happen to think Carson's doing a pretty good job. I like him. I like his humility and willingness to put defeats on him -- even when it's obviously not his fault. That said -- I don't fault Chad for not being Palmer. I think the two personalities can coexist. The fact that CJ gets more run than Palmer is attributable to Chad's love of the spotlight, Palmer's humility, and the fact that the public wants something a little more dynamic. It is what it is and it's hardly surprising. Chad is bling. Do I care if he's the face of the team? Hell no. I'm also going to call it for what it is when the going gets a little tough and all the sudden Chad the media darling becomes Chad the distraction/disruption. BS -- he hasn't changed and I don't see any reason he should. It's much ado about nothing and nothing that winning some games won't silence. And I'll be the first one to point out when Chad has a bad game -- because he does. But so does Palmer and whoever else you can mention on the team.

Man this is amazing, simply amazing...I'm going to send this to my friends as we are having a similar discussion..great post though.

[HairOnFire]

As for putting the words in my mouth, you're missing the point. Chad may be inherently contridictory if you listen to him, but nobody is really listening. They're eating up the quotes and overlooking the hedges. He's not saying much of anything -- certainly not anything new. He's actually right when he says "I'm not going to change." He hasn't changed. He's always "spoken his mind" even if it doesn't amount to much of anything.

You're defending an idiots right to be an idiot. Which is fine to a point, but even if the only thing anyone agrees is that Chad is being an asshat their are consequences....especially when the face of the franchise is suddenly viewed as fugtard. Granted, a very lovable fugtard, but a fugtard nonetheless.

I know you're not a CJ fan, but even you have to see that this latest round of bashing Chad for being immature is pretty ridiculous. First of all, production-wise, he's still pretty much doing what he always does. So, blaming the 4 losses on CJ is just wrong. Second, latching on to the Whitlock rant that Chad is a "bojangles" or whatever is just lame. In this day and age, suggesting that a black man who's vying for attention and a media whore is somehow playing the white man's game is totally offensive.

Chad has nobody but himself to blame for the current media storm. He's demanded the attention, ignored the criticism, and offered enough idiotic statements for people to assume that he may indeed be an idiot. As for Whitlock's bojangle angle, I've never defended it, but I will add two points that I will defend. First, Chad brought this upon himself. It's naive to assume that anyone in his position could control all aspects of the media storm he's actively cultivated. Second, Whitlock is on very solid ground when he mocks the "Me First" culture that has cropped up everywhere, including in team sports. And there's the rub because Chad Johnson's actions AND words place him in the "Me First" spotlight.

You have correctly perceived that I don't believe that Chad is the sharpest tool in the shed. That said, he obviously doesn't have to be a genius to get a lot of attention, as you correctly concede ("is it even possible"). I believe he's more like a media savy idoit savant. People like to hear him talk -- no matter what gibberish he's talking.

Above all things the media adores spectacle. Lavish, comic, or tragic hardly matters. In fact, the only thing that won't be tolerated is dead air...so bring on the fool and strike up the band. Perhaps he will dance for us.

Finally, I compare CJ to Dillon because it's the obvious contradiction. What's missing from the "Chad as team killer" argument is that he doesn't crap on the team. The overwhelming suggestion that he's ruining the character of the team seems stupid to me.

The Dillon comparison is too over the top for my tastes, but it does offer a handy example of a talented player finally supressing his own ego for the overall good of a team. Sadly, Dillon was probably capable of doing this only if traded to a team already awash in championship trophies. It's not hard to image him returning to his malcontented ways if traded to many other teams....if not most of them. As for Chad changing his ways, he's on my television right this moment, yammering about how he doesn't have to answer to anyone, doesn't have to listen to anyone, doesn't care about anyones opinion, and isn't about to change for anyone. And if there's anything remarkable about his interview with Keyshawn Johnson is how defiant he was, how angry he seemed, and how everything could be defended by labeling it as entertainment.

Maybe you don't want Chad to be the face of the team -- fair enough. You want somebody tough -- presumably on the defense, right? Who do you elect. I don't see anybody grabbing the mantle of team leadership that is putting a "tough" stamp on it. I happen to think Carson's doing a pretty good job. I like him. I like his humility and willingness to put defeats on him -- even when it's obviously not his fault.

I think Palmer is the obvious choice, in equal parts because of his talent, the position he plays, and his willingness to assume the role of team leader. Sadly, the media largely determines who the face of a franchise will be and they've picked Chad due to his talent and his willingness to play the fool. And whether you think it's fair or not....the media is turning on Mister Chad-erbox.

[HairOnFire]

In any event, your point is well-taken that there are few examples of former Bengals getting resurrected elsewhere. Whether that's because their spriit was broken or whether they just weren't as good as they were supposed to be is a good question.

If you follow the Trumpy rant to it's logical conclusion the answer is fewer players are resurrected elsewhere because most never leave. They either get their coaches fired or they stick around cashing undeserved paychecks until old age or injury finally claims them. (Pickens, Scott, Simmons, etc.) But the only players who leave here in their prime do so only when the team endlessly changes schemes (Thompson, Manuel, Williams, etc.) or when they gain their freedom in free agency. (Spikes, Goff, Steinbach, etc.)

[HoosierCat]

The Dillon comparison is too over the top for my tastes, but it does offer a handy example of a talented player finally supressing his own ego for the overall good of a team. Sadly, Dillon was probably capable of doing this only if traded to a team already awash in championship trophies.

Uh...no. Dillon didn't suppress his ego. His ego was suppressed for him, by a team for which he was a luxury, not a ticket to the Super Bowl. He acts like a sh*t, he's gone, and no one cares. Ditto for current head case Randy Moss.

You can't build a team out of head cases; you build the team, then cherry-pick your head cases. In other words, you build the fire pit, not the fire, first. A lesson it seems Mike Brown has been extremely slow to learn.

[Spor_tees]

The Dillon comparison is too over the top for my tastes, but it does offer a handy example of a talented player finally supressing his own ego for the overall good of a team. Sadly, Dillon was probably capable of doing this only if traded to a team already awash in championship trophies.

Uh...no. Dillon didn't suppress his ego. His ego was suppressed for him, by a team for which he was a luxury, not a ticket to the Super Bowl. He acts like a sh*t, he's gone, and no one cares. Ditto for current head case Randy Moss.

You can't build a team out of head cases; you build the team, then cherry-pick your head cases. In other words, you build the fire pit, not the fire, first. A lesson it seems Mike Brown has been extremely slow to learn.

I wanna play...when you build a team you gotta make sure you build a barrier between your flammables and the fire, otherwise you might end up with nothing but ashes.

[HairOnFire]

Uh...no. Dillon didn't suppress his ego. His ego was suppressed for him, by a team for which he was a luxury, not a ticket to the Super Bowl. He acts like a sh*t, he's gone, and no one cares. Ditto for current head case Randy Moss.

You can't build a team out of head cases; you build the team, then cherry-pick your head cases. In other words, you build the fire pit, not the fire, first. A lesson it seems Mike Brown has been extremely slow to learn.

Seems like you're doing a little cherry-picking yourself. Dillon did suppress his ego, in part because fans in New England wouldn't have supported his behavior regardless of how talented he was. In Cincy it's a different story, largely because Bengal fans already have a favorite whipping boy.

[HoosierCat]

Uh...no. Dillon didn't suppress his ego. His ego was suppressed for him, by a team for which he was a luxury, not a ticket to the Super Bowl. He acts like a sh*t, he's gone, and no one cares. Ditto for current head case Randy Moss.

You can't build a team out of head cases; you build the team, then cherry-pick your head cases. In other words, you build the fire pit, not the fire, first. A lesson it seems Mike Brown has been extremely slow to learn.

Seems like you're doing a little cherry-picking yourself. Dillon did suppress his ego, in part because fans in New England wouldn't have supported his behavior regardless of how talented he was. In Cincy it's a different story, largely because Bengal fans already have a favorite whipping boy.

It. Has. Nothing. To Do. With The. Fans. Not in whole, not in part, not in any little bit. It has to do 100% with whether the locker room is capable of policing itself, which it can only do if it's stocked with pros and backed by the coaching staff and front office. That ain't Cincy.

[HairOnFire]

In other words, you build the fire pit, not the fire, first. A lesson it seems Mike Brown has been extremely slow to learn.

Perhaps he'd catch on quicker if you'd use animals in the lesson. For example, oxcarts in a ditch, needing rabbits to make rabbit stew, the subtle steps needed to produce a correctly laid egg. Or in this case, how the common cow wants and needs a bell cow to lead it to the barn.

[HairOnFire]

It. Has. Nothing. To Do. With The. Fans. Not in whole, not in part, not in any little bit.

I'd expect nothing else from a fan who backed Corey Dillon's malcontented act every step of the way.

[duus]

You two guys completely crack me up. I love reading the back and forth, regardless of the topic-of-the-day. If the two of you ever get together for a tailgate, PLEASE let me know ... I will make the trip on a moments notice.

[HairOnFire]

You two guys completely crack me up. I love reading the back and forth, regardless of the topic-of-the-day.

He's Frick.

I'm Frack.

Together we're known as Hopelessly Frucked.

Enjoy the show.

[HoosierCat]

It. Has. Nothing. To Do. With The. Fans. Not in whole, not in part, not in any little bit.

I'd expect nothing else from a fan who backed Corey Dillon's malcontented act every step of the way.

Actually, Dillon is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Bengals fans leveled more and much harsher criticism of CD, and for a far longer period of time, than has ever been laid on Chad. And all that opprobrium had precisely zero impact on Dillon's behavior or the team's treatment of him.