Forget the GM

[COB]

I see Mike Brown maybe, maybe hiring a GM after this season. But it won't matter. Because the guy will be GM in name only. Mike and Pumpkin will still run everything, the GM will just be a rubber stamp to deflect criticism. Paul Alexander comes to mind. It is truly horrible to contemplate.

Thus, I am now convinced that hiring a GM will do nothing for this organization.

The only thing that will change the Bengals is a complete overhaul of the personnel department. By that I mean hire a personnel guru, then hire about 12 scouts.

Mike Brown came out of hiding mid-season last year to calm the waters. One of the specific things he addressed was his scouting department. He said it was working, and that it didn't need changed.

In one respect, he's right. There is such a huge quantity of information out there on draft-eligible college players, that Mike's scheme to be a bottom-feeder and sponge off the work of other organizations is basically workable.

But what he is ignoring is the monumental contribution that your scouts and personnel guys make regarding your own players. For example, if we had the quality and quantity of personnel some other teams have, they could have looked at Levi and Guycheck before the 07 season. Watched them in drills, watched them in practice. And those personnel people would have come to the conclusion that both players needed to be replaced. Instead the Bengals just wait until the player fails in place before making a change.

Imagine that kind of scrutiny being applied across the board to our roster. Real football people evaluating who stays and who goes.

Instead what we have now is Pumpkin and Mike, both shark lawyers who manage our roster from a legal/contract standpoint. The emphasis on our last draft was to deal with the eventual departure of TJ and Chad. It should have been on an obviously depleted D-line (credit to them, they addressed it) and an offensive line that was in crisis. But you have to know it is in crisis first. Which means you have to scout and evaluate your own team. Which we can't do because we don't have enough of the right kinds of eyes watching our players.

Mike didn't treat the Lumina this way. He didn't just drive it until something broke and left him stranded on the highway. He undoubtedly had a mechanic do preventive maintenance. That mechanic also hooked the Lumina up to diagnostic machines that evaluated the performance of various components and signaled when it was time to replace a wearing part.

Mike, you need to buy one of those diagnostic machines. And hook your football team up to it. Because right now I'm stranded on the side of the NFL superhighway watching other teams fly by. Holy s**t, the Raiders just went by. The Raiders! I get stuck here just about every year, and it's getting old.

[HoosierCat]

It's a nice thought, COB, but the fact is that the Bengals use the player personnel department as a place to stash family members (Pete & Paul) and loyal family retainers (Lippentoady).

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Yep it's obvious no one in the front office either has the time, or the ability, to manage personnel and mix it with the cap to stagger their contracts wisely and address real needs. Katie freakin Blackburn cannot do that, she has been a miserable failure. Anyone can stay comfy under the cap and lose 16 out of 17 years. I can do that. Jim Lippincott is horrible, what has he done in all these years? Paul Brown Jr.? Miserable failure at personnel evaluation.

Furthermore you have coaches, instead of working on things that involve coaching, out scouting players in-person as soon as the season ends. They have always quietly complained about having to hit the road after a long, grueling season.

I can't see this changing, Paul Brown's dying last words were not to give up too much power to outside people after his fiasco in Cleveland a long time ago. Brown still does everything with that in mind.

The thing is, in today's market/game, there is no way in hell a GM and a group of scouts who take over personnel and cap decisions (i.e. who gets paid what and when) is of any threat to the Brown family and their stadium lease. This is not the 1950's.

There is no excuse, just blind ignorance and a stubborn group of 3-4 family people who won't give up their jobs and let other people who are more qualified run the show, while they rake in the cash from the success.

[DesperateDerelict]

...you have coaches, instead of working on things that involve coaching, out scouting players in-person as soon as the season ends.

Having talented position coaches get involved in the decision-making vis-a-vis who to draft? and who is coachable? is a good thing IMHO. It's not like they're THAT busy in January. Actually, some take spouses and make them 'working vacations'.

Unfortunately, the key word is talented. Mike Brown, Pete Brown, Katie Blackburn, Paul Brown, Jim Anderson, Chip Morton, Ray Oliver, Darrin Simmons, and especially Jonathan Hayes and Jay Hayes are (arguably) the poorest judge of NFL talent at their respective positions than any of their countrrparts in the NFL. Don't believe me??? Check the draft they've been involved in, then check the roster.

There are dozens of individuals ON THIS FORUM that are better at recognizing talent than any of the idiots above.

Not only are they bad, but some are actually the WORST.

Here are ALL the decision-makers for the Cincinnati Bengals:

Mike Brown President

Pete Brown Senior Vice President - Player Personnel

Katie Blackburn Executive Vice President

Paul Brown Vice President - Player Personnel

John Sawyer Vice President

Troy Blackburn Vice President

Marvin Lewis Head Coach

Paul Alexander Assistant Head Coach/Offensive Line

Jim Anderson Running Backs

Bob Bratkowski Offensive Coordinator

Louie Cioffi Assistant Defensive Backs

Kevin Coyle Defensive Backs

Jeff FitzGerald Linebackers

Paul Guenther Assistant Special Teams/Assistant Linebackers

Jonathan Hayes Tight Ends

Jay Hayes Defensive Line

Chip Morton Strength and Conditioning

Ray Oliver Associate Strength and Conditioning

Mike Sheppard Wide Receivers

Darrin Simmons Special Teams

Bob Surace Assistant Offensive Line

Ken Zampese Quarterbacks

Mike Zimmer Defensive Coordinator

Think we'll win in '09?? 2010??? Ever???

[COB]

I can't see this changing, Paul Brown's dying last words were not to give up too much power to outside people after his fiasco in Cleveland a long time ago.

Is this meant literally or figuratively? I don't doubt that keeping power in the family was a common refrain from Paul Brown. But if that was really his dying declaration, I almost feel sorry for him. You're about to exit the mortal world and the last thing you can think about is the administrative end of your business?

He had good reason to worry. As you pointed out, his experience in Cleveland, and he must have known how Al Davis basically stole controlling interest in the Raiders from his partners. Those days are truly past. Mike and Pumpkin surely can keep a close watch on the financial end of things and turn the football operations over.

And I can evision Mike Brown's last moments on earth. Instead of the Bengals, he's thinking back to his younger years, a more simple, innocent time. Then as he slips the surly bonds of earth, one word falls from his mouth. No, not Rosebud. Instead, one perplexing, cryptic word...

"Lumina".

[Ickey44]

I can't see this changing, Paul Brown's dying last words were not to give up too much power to outside people after his fiasco in Cleveland a long time ago.

Is this meant literally or figuratively? I don't doubt that keeping power in the family was a common refrain from Paul Brown. But if that was really his dying declaration, I almost feel sorry for him. You're about to exit the mortal world and the last thing you can think about is the administrative end of your business?

He had good reason to worry. As you pointed out, his experience in Cleveland, and he must have known how Al Davis basically stole controlling interest in the Raiders from his partners. Those days are truly past. Mike and Pumpkin surely can keep a close watch on the financial end of things and turn the football operations over.

And I can evision Mike Brown's last moments on earth. Instead of the Bengals, he's thinking back to his younger years, a more simple, innocent time. Then as he slips the surly bonds of earth, one word falls from his mouth. No, not Rosebud. Instead, one perplexing, cryptic word...

"Lumina".

[Pidge]

I see Mike Brown maybe, maybe hiring a GM after this season. But it won't matter. Because the guy will be GM in name only. Mike and Pumpkin will still run everything, the GM will just be a rubber stamp to deflect criticism. Paul Alexander comes to mind. It is truly horrible to contemplate.

Thus, I am now convinced that hiring a GM will do nothing for this organization.

The only thing that will change the Bengals is a complete overhaul of the personnel department. By that I mean hire a personnel guru, then hire about 12 scouts.

Mike Brown came out of hiding mid-season last year to calm the waters. One of the specific things he addressed was his scouting department. He said it was working, and that it didn't need changed.

In one respect, he's right. There is such a huge quantity of information out there on draft-eligible college players, that Mike's scheme to be a bottom-feeder and sponge off the work of other organizations is basically workable.

But what he is ignoring is the monumental contribution that your scouts and personnel guys make regarding your own players. For example, if we had the quality and quantity of personnel some other teams have, they could have looked at Levi and Guycheck before the 07 season. Watched them in drills, watched them in practice. And those personnel people would have come to the conclusion that both players needed to be replaced. Instead the Bengals just wait until the player fails in place before making a change.

Imagine that kind of scrutiny being applied across the board to our roster. Real football people evaluating who stays and who goes.

Instead what we have now is Pumpkin and Mike, both shark lawyers who manage our roster from a legal/contract standpoint. The emphasis on our last draft was to deal with the eventual departure of TJ and Chad. It should have been on an obviously depleted D-line (credit to them, they addressed it) and an offensive line that was in crisis. But you have to know it is in crisis first. Which means you have to scout and evaluate your own team. Which we can't do because we don't have enough of the right kinds of eyes watching our players.

Mike didn't treat the Lumina this way. He didn't just drive it until something broke and left him stranded on the highway. He undoubtedly had a mechanic do preventive maintenance. That mechanic also hooked the Lumina up to diagnostic machines that evaluated the performance of various components and signaled when it was time to replace a wearing part.

Mike, you need to buy one of those diagnostic machines. And hook your football team up to it. Because right now I'm stranded on the side of the NFL superhighway watching other teams fly by. Holy s**t, the Raiders just went by. The Raiders! I get stuck here just about every year, and it's getting old.

Having an actual system in place with enough bodies also means you can pick up useful players, very probably even starting calibre players, in the later rounds by having enough bodies to scout players who might not have great intangibles but will fit the system of the coaching staff well. Most of the good teams are built through the mid-late rounds.

But anyway, nice dream COB. Would require a real commitment (emotionally and financially) to at least have a go at winning from Brown et al. And really, why bother (from his perspective) when you can make a good profit year after year by doing nothing.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I can't see this changing, Paul Brown's dying last words were not to give up too much power to outside people after his fiasco in Cleveland a long time ago.

Is this meant literally or figuratively? I don't doubt that keeping power in the family was a common refrain from Paul Brown. But if that was really his dying declaration, I almost feel sorry for him. You're about to exit the mortal world and the last thing you can think about is the administrative end of your business?

He had good reason to worry. As you pointed out, his experience in Cleveland, and he must have known how Al Davis basically stole controlling interest in the Raiders from his partners. Those days are truly past. Mike and Pumpkin surely can keep a close watch on the financial end of things and turn the football operations over.

I'm not privy to what Paul bestowed Mikey on his deathbed (obviously nothing of substance, judging by results), but if it's as reported, then Mikey is confusing power with control. As long as they own more than 50% of the team, they still call the shots. They still have all the power. The important thing there is to have a plan for inheritance of the team when Mikey dies such that it doesn't get splintered and end up in the hands of an outsider (like might happen to the Steelers).

But none of that means they need to make football decisions. As long as the guy making those decisions is an employee, you still have power, even if you choose to cede control of operations. Surely Paul would be sickened by the levels of cronyism, nepotism, and resulting incompetence in the Bengals management.

Besides, advice from a man who died in 1991 (no matter how brilliant) is completely irrelevant to today's NFL. The league today is barely recognizable from a vantage point of 17 years ago, a time when real free agency didn't exist and there was no salary cap.

[GregCook]

I can't see this changing, Paul Brown's dying last words were not to give up too much power to outside people after his fiasco in Cleveland a long time ago.

Is this meant literally or figuratively? I don't doubt that keeping power in the family was a common refrain from Paul Brown. But if that was really his dying declaration, I almost feel sorry for him. You're about to exit the mortal world and the last thing you can think about is the administrative end of your business?

He had good reason to worry. As you pointed out, his experience in Cleveland, and he must have known how Al Davis basically stole controlling interest in the Raiders from his partners. Those days are truly past. Mike and Pumpkin surely can keep a close watch on the financial end of things and turn the football operations over.

I'm not privy to what Paul bestowed Mikey on his deathbed (obviously nothing of substance, judging by results), but if it's as reported, then Mikey is confusing power with control. As long as they own more than 50% of the team, they still call the shots. They still have all the power. The important thing there is to have a plan for inheritance of the team when Mikey dies such that it doesn't get splintered and end up in the hands of an outsider (like might happen to the Steelers).

But none of that means they need to make football decisions. As long as the guy making those decisions is an employee, you still have power, even if you choose to cede control of operations. Surely Paul would be sickened by the levels of cronyism, nepotism, and resulting incompetence in the Bengals management.

Besides, advice from a man who died in 1991 (no matter how brilliant) is completely irrelevant to today's NFL. The league today is barely recognizable from a vantage point of 17 years ago, a time when real free agency didn't exist and there was no salary cap.

Mike Brown apologies to nobody and doesn't need too. He is a good earner and that is all that counts in his world.

Imagine selling a defective product to 10's of thousands of gullible people year after 17 years who willing pay more and more each year to use it, display it, paint their pride all over their faces.

Its genius. We all need to applaud his business intelligence. He is accountable to nobody. Except maybe his wife and his extended family to the extent he provides a lifestyle they enjoy. Beyond that, he marches to his own drummer. We Bengal fans had better just shut up and enjoy what he gives us.

I think that sums up his attitude, as best I can figure without the benefit of Patron in this early hour.

[Kazkal]

I wouldn't say Jim Anderson is a poor coach IMO he's one of the best we have it's not his fault Paul Alexander Fails unless he has first day picks plugged in every spot of the line...

2005 line our best ever

Levi Jones- Before he hot his big new contract 1st rounder

Eric Steinbach-Very high 2nd rounder

Rich Braham-3rd Rounder (lowest pick)

Bobbie Williams-2nd Rounder

Willie Anderson-1st rounder

Imo we also made a mistake not bringing hue back when he was available.