Let me hear from the Brat Bashers!

[walzav29]

I read alot of people complaining about Brat, but on the other hand the Bengals have a great offense. I really have no Brat complaints. I was just curious to see what everyone else thought. I notice in the losses everyone says that the Bengals should have ran more, but if you can't run I don't know what good it would do. I think Zampese would be the next OC though, and that would be fine. Are people pro Brat? Or anti-Brat?

[walshfan]

Every team's OC is under scrutiny if the offense fails to produce..

Mark Martz for all his supposedly genius makes plays that leave the fans wondering...

Is Brat the best ?? prbably not but I dont think he's in the bottom half either....

More issues than a different OC right now...

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I hate when people just say "run the ball more." As if it's that easy - against Pitt Rudi and Perry were getting nothing in the 2nd and 3rd quarters after Rudi's 20 yard TD run (which he pretty much got on his own with a nice stiff arm and a decent hole for once so he could get through the first line of defense). Prior to that he was lucky to get 2-3 yards a carry - there were no holes.

You can't run the ball on 3rd and long...or every down, or when you're down by 10 points late in the 2nd half like they were - what are they supposed to do? Get 2 yards on a running play, and end up with 3rd and 6-8 every series where the defense knows what your'e going to do?

Pitt was putting 7-8 guys or more in the box on every play and forcing the pass - Kitna couldn't deliver and the 0-line was garbage all day long.

The problem here is not Brat - it's the talent on the field - Brat was attacking their weakeness and knew he had to get points on the board because the defense was going to give up 30+ points as usual.

This team just wasn't ready for prime time yet - Carson was their only chance. It wasn't just last Sunday - but typical of most of the year.

Get rid of Braham and fatty Williams and you'll notice more push up the middle and more consistency in pass protection etc..., if they can upgrade those guys IMO.

Once again, some people here are just too in love with the current players and immediately blame the coaches for a lack of talent.

[Interceptor]

They should have stuck with the quick short passes like they were doing in the first half. Very hard to defend, especially a slant with a 3-step drop & shoot. At one point they had like three 1st downs in a row with that. We were beating them short, why go long? And that short passing opened up the running game a bit more.

[HoosierCat]

I hate when people just say "run the ball more." As if it's that easy - against Pitt Rudi and Perry were getting nothing in the 2nd and 3rd quarters after Rudi's 20 yard TD run (which he pretty much got on his own with a nice stiff arm and a decent hole for once so he could get through the first line of defense). Prior to that he was lucky to get 2-3 yards a carry - there were no holes.

Conveniently ignoring Rudi's 18 yarder to star the second half, I see. And apparently you haven't been watching this team much the last few years, or you'd realize that what you're describing is Rudi's style. He's your prototypical power back, and he's only going to be effective with 20+ carries in order to wear down the defense. Didn't you read all those post by pushy last offseason where he bemoaned Rudi's poor ypc average? A typical breakdown of a Rudi game with 25 carries will look something like this: 20 carries, 40 yards, 5 carries 60 yards. And that's pretty much what you got last Sunday: 2 runs for 38 and another dozen or so for 20. Rudi was fine and the line was fine.

You can't run the ball on 3rd and long...or every down, or when you're down by 10 points late in the 2nd half like they were - what are they supposed to do?

Who said every down? Fine, thow on third and long. How about first and long and second and long, when theyre only rushing two and dropping nine into coverage. You think it makes sense to ask Kitna to pass then???? Run a delay, Rudi can pick up a couple blockers since 3/5ths of the o-line's not doing anything and you cut that "long" in half, at least. More: next play they can't drop nine again, they have to respect the run, and that gives you a better chance to complete a pass. As for time issues, they ran one running play in the final 20 mins. Even down 10 that's plenty of time for 2 scores.

Get rid of Braham and fatty Williams and you'll notice more push up the middle and more consistency in pass protection etc..., if they can upgrade those guys IMO.

Yeah, yeah, yeah,we know, cut the whole team, they all suck, blah,blah, blah...

[walshfan]

should woulda coulda about Brat... how come no one on this board is an NFL OC????

the guy is decent .....

the problem is defense..

maybe he feels he has to put lots of points on the board to compensate for the pititful crew we have on the other side of the ball...

Lots of stratgy goes into play cllling...

If it was that easy they could hire most of you guys!

[kingwilly]

Ok, let's break it down.

On the Bengals first possession in the second half, they moved the ball nicely then stalled in the redzone, on two Rudi rushes.

1-10-CIN23 (14:52) R.Johnson right tackle to CIN 41 for 18 yards (D.Townsend). {C.Haggans (PIT#52) injured on the play, came off the field limping}

1-10-CIN41 (14:01) R.Johnson right tackle to CIN 45 for 4 yards (J.Farrior).

2-6-CIN45 (13:40) J.Kitna pass to C.Johnson to PIT 30 for 25 yards (I.Taylor). FUMBLES (I.Taylor), ball out of bounds at PIT 28. Play Challenged by PIT and REVERSED. J.Kitna pass incomplete to C.Johnson (I.Taylor).

3-6-CIN45 (13:37) J.Kitna pass to K.Walter to PIT 40 for 15 yards (B.McFadden).

1-10-PIT40 (12:56) J.Kitna pass incomplete to T.Houshmandzadeh (D.Townsend).

2-10-PIT40 (12:48) J.Kitna pass to K.Walter to PIT 35 for 5 yards (I.Taylor).

3-5-PIT35 (12:01) (Shotgun)

PENALTY on CIN-R.Kelly, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 35 - No Play.

3-10-PIT40 (11:36) J.Kitna pass to C.Johnson pushed ob at PIT 19 for 21 yards (T.Carter).

1-10-PIT19 (11:21) R.Johnson right guard to PIT 16 for 3 yards (D.Townsend; A.Frazier).

2-7-PIT16 (10:39) R.Johnson right tackle to PIT 15 for 1 yard (C.Hampton).

3-6-PIT15 (10:03) J.Kitna pass incomplete to T.Houshmandzadeh.

4-6-PIT34 (9:52) (Field Goal formation) K.Larson Aborted. B.St. Louis FUMBLES at PIT 15, recovered by CIN-S.Graham at PIT 34. S.Graham to PIT 34 for no gain (S.Morey).

Then Pitt scores on the possession change from the botched FG, from a PI call on KK, who had ben beat. Pitt goes up 21-17 with more than 5:00 to go in the 3rd. Hardly panic button time.....unless you are Bratkowski.

1-10-CIN34 (5:07) J.Kitna sacked at CIN 25 for -9 yards (sack split by L.Foote and C.Haggans).

2-19-CIN25 (4:24) J.Kitna pass to R.Kelly to CIN 29 for 4 yards (T.Carter).

3-15-CIN29 (3:46) (Shotgun)

PENALTY on CIN-T.Houshmandzadeh, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CIN 29 - No Play.

3-20-CIN24 (3:22) (Shotgun) J.Kitna sacked at CIN 15 for -9 yards. FUMBLES, and recovers at CIN 20. J.Kitna to CIN 20 for no gain (A.Smith). {J.Kitna (CIN#3) dropped the ball while behind the line; Scored as a 4- yard sack}

4-24-CIN20 (2:48) K.Larson punts 30 yards to 50, Center-B.St. Louis, downed by CIN-M.Wilkins.

After 2:30 minutes of possession, 3 poor pass playcalls, and a booming 30 yrd Larson punt, Pitt gets ball and promplty uses a gadget play to score again. This is the critical possession. BRat's bad calls combined with Kitna coming back to earth undid us right there. If we go down and scoge, even a fg to pull back to 21-20, and burn some clock, then Kitna does not have to force, as he did on the next possession.

1-10-CIN38 (1:08) J.Kitna to CIN 42 for 4 yards (J.Farrior).

2-6-CIN42 (:19) J.Kitna sacked at CIN 40 for -2 yards (C.Hoke).

Fourth Quarter

Cincinnati Bengals continued...

3-8-CIN40 (15:00) J.Kitna pass to C.Johnson to CIN 48 for 8 yards (D.Townsend).

1-10-CIN48 (14:21) C.Perry left end pushed ob at 50 for 2 yards (I.Taylor).

2-8-50 (13:41) J.Kitna pass incomplete to K.Walter.

3-8-50 (13:35) (Shotgun) J.Kitna pass intended for T.Houshmandzadeh INTERCEPTED by J.Farrior at PIT 38. J.Farrior pushed ob at CIN 40 for 22 yards (T.Houshmandzadeh).

Now, Tab had a decent run back, We get a key 1st down and are now at mid-field with just about a whole quarter to play. The C. Perry call was good but Kitna tried to make two Palmer throws (incomplete to Walter, in traffic to TJ) and gets picked. THYE WERE playing the PASS here, not the run. Rudi has not had a tocuh since the 3rd quarter? Kitna has the game on his shoulders, based on the calls and personnel? This possession loses the game.

Ok, then after an ensuing FG from Pitt, we get the ball back with more then TEN MINUTES, down 2 TD's. The game is in Kit's hands...rusdi is riding pine.

1-10-CIN20 (10:22) J.Kitna pass incomplete. {Thrown away}

2-10-CIN20 (10:12) J.Kitna pass incomplete to K.Walter.

3-10-CIN20 (10:08) J.Kitna pass incomplete to C.Perry.

4-10-CIN20 (10:00) K.Larson punts 51 yards to PIT 29, Center-B.St. Louis. A.Randle El to PIT 36 for 7 yards (T.Stewart).

Now we get a Defensive stop and force a punt. Still down 2 td's, Rudi rides pine, more than 6 minutes left...Pitt D drops 7.

1-10-CIN20 (6:42) J.Kitna pass incomplete to T.Houshmandzadeh (D.Townsend).

2-10-CIN20 (6:38) (Shotgun) J.Kitna pass to C.Perry to CIN 22 for 2 yards (T.Carter).

3-8-CIN22 (6:10) (Shotgun) J.Kitna pass to K.Walter pushed ob at CIN 46 for 24 yards (D.Townsend).

1-10-CIN46 (5:51) (Shotgun) J.Kitna pass to M.Schobel ran ob at CIN 49 for 3 yards.

2-7-CIN49 (5:28) J.Kitna pass to M.Schobel to PIT 43 for 8 yards (T.Carter).

1-10-PIT43 (5:02) (Shotgun) J.Kitna pass to C.Perry to PIT 45 for -2 yards (T.Carter).

2-12-PIT45 (4:33) (Shotgun) J.Kitna pass INTERCEPTED by T.Polamalu at PIT 28. T.Polamalu to PIT 32 for 4 yards. Lateral to C.Hope to CIN 45 for 23 yards (T.Houshmandzadeh).

PENALTY on PIT-J.Porter, Illegal Block Above the Waist, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 37. {C.Hope (PIT#28) credited with 5 interception yards due to the penalty}

3 first downs, 2 mintues off the clock, in Pitt territory, not a single rush...Pitt rushes 3, waiting for Kit to force it...game over.

For the Brat defenders, please explain how these possessions, after the botched FG, make any sense or indicate that Brat should keep his job. 41 pass attempts, 20 rushes. Loss of a winnable game.

[bengalsfansince68]

Perhaps some of you guys are too young and have not seen enough of the history of the NFL to recognize the importance of running the football.

This season, when Rudi gets 20 or more carries, the Bengals were 9-0.

This season when Rudi gets less than 20 carries, the Bengals were 2-6.

Do the math, fellas. Throughout history it has been proven that the team who runs the ball the most, even if they do not run it particularly well, usually wins. Running the ball shortens the game, keeps the opposing defense on the field and keeps our defense off the field.

Bratkowski does not get it. I will take any OC who has a clue of the importance of running the football. Brat clearly does not.

Do the math, guys.

[Stripes]

In my opinion, Bratkowski does well enough to allow this vastly talented offense to succeed. We saw that this year in the stat books. Still, with all these players to work with, couldn't a whole bunch of coordinators have at least that level of success? What would set Brat apart would be his situational playcalling, and he just seems to have no grasp of that.

His calls on 3rd or 4th and short are mind boggling on some occassions, and he abandons the run with less than a huge deficit on the scoreboard.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

They should have stuck with the quick short passes like they were doing in the first half. Very hard to defend, especially a slant with a 3-step drop & shoot. At one point they had like three 1st downs in a row with that. We were beating them short, why go long? And that short passing opened up the running game a bit more.

In fairness, even dimwitted Cowher eventually realized that, as Kitna lacks an arm that can throw past 10 yards, those passes were all they really had to defend. That made them tougher to complete, forcing Kitna to attempt throws that aren't in his repetroire anymore, with predictably disasterous results.

I'm with the "run more" crowd, at least for that game. Rudi does best when given an opportunity to soften defenses. And you know, without a doubt anymore, that if Kitna throws 30 times you will lose. Especially against a good team. Take it to the bank.

[USMC203]

We got him like or not. You don't see any teams knocking the door down to get him.

[Sportsdoc]

He is not the best. He lacks the ability to adapt his design to the talent of his people; his design is very downfield pass oriented and with Carson, Chad TJ and Henry, it works well.

My big problem is with our o line coach-- Paul Alexander-- with virtually 3 first round picks on the line, they should be perfect. Half the time they don't block a good hole for Rudy and Levi blows so many pass rushes from the ends, it is not funny.

If Brat leaves to coach somewhere else, get Mularky

[BlainThePain]

He is not the best. He lacks the ability to adapt his design to the talent of his people; his design is very downfield pass oriented and with Carson, Chad TJ and Henry, it works well.

My big problem is with our o line coach-- Paul Alexander-- with virtually 3 first round picks on the line, they should be perfect. Half the time they don't block a good hole for Rudy and Levi blows so many pass rushes from the ends, it is not funny.

If Brat leaves to coach somewhere else, get Mularky

The O-line only set a franchise record for fewest sacks allowed in a season and Rudi only set the Bengals single season rushing record and averaged 4.3 yards a carry. Levi Jones is also outpreforming both tackles that were drafted ahead of him. It doesn't get much better than what we have.

[walshfan]

He is not the best. He lacks the ability to adapt his design to the talent of his people; his design is very downfield pass oriented and with Carson, Chad TJ and Henry, it works well.

My big problem is with our o line coach-- Paul Alexander-- with virtually 3 first round picks on the line, they should be perfect. Half the time they don't block a good hole for Rudy and Levi blows so many pass rushes from the ends, it is not funny.

If Brat leaves to coach somewhere else, get Mularky

How many sacks did the line give up this year?? How many did Levi give up.. He goes up against the best best rushers ...KGB, Freeney, Stubbs to name a few.. he have up 5 sacks in 16 games... he should have been mentioned for the probowl...

the question I have with Alexander is how will the next line of linemen fare.. they are not blue chippers as the first team.. ( Bluto, Kieft, Viera, Andrews and Wilkinson need someone that can raise them to another level.. I hope Alexander can do that....

[buck3y3d]

See, I have a problem with Brat because I sit at home and watch Bengals game once a week. Every game I watch I can guess at least 25% of the plays based on situation and formation. This is ridiculous.

There is a reason to run the ball even when you can't run well. See. if you run, defenders will move into the box and bite on play fakes. Now the recievers are open, genius I know, but don't credit me. I didn't invent the play action. Therefore the Bengals should be running, especially with a backup QB and a lead.

Brat gets cute with his play calling. I mean I love Jeremy Johnson catching a screen for 1 yard, and the Chad bomb even when he is double covered. I love the run on second down following a pass on 1st down (I bet this happened about 80% of the time). I like how we get in the redzone and stall. I like the fact that a naked bootleg has never been called from the five, even after pounding Rudi. I love that Bob is drawing interest from other teams.

Zampese will run the same system. I think he has deserved a chance after his results with Carson.

[cincy9275]

brat can not adjust when his plan is not working . he is not very creative . and he don't understand how to take advantage off weaker teams with the players he has they could make any oc look great .

Levi is a beast he had a great season a lot of people think he should be in the prow bowl. some think he is more deserving of a pro bowl slot than willie i agree.

[richmond_mat]

Why I do not like Brat? HMMM

His game management skills are very poor. He seems to struggle most when the team is leading. He NEVER seems to pay attention to the clock.

He is predictable. (same plays out of same formations.....)

He never runs a delay type run. I only recall one draw play over the last five games.

He panics, forgets about Rudi and loses the game, as we saw again last week.

He doesn't use the TE to do anything but block.

He lacks creativity and the nads to call a gadget play.

Unfortunately, I think we are stuck with another year ahead of us where we get to complain about his weaknesses every week.

Bratkowsuckski