alleycat Posted January 4, 2006 Report Posted January 4, 2006 Gang tackle.I just watched the Steelers short cuts with the Lions, and though they did everything they could to lose the game, their d and special teams saved them. The one thing that really jumped out (after watching the Bengals shortcuts just before) is that there were 2-3 steelers bringing a guy down on every play, sometimes more. Watch the other top D's in the league. They all swarm. We don't.I truly think this is a coaching deficiency. Quote
NJ29 Posted January 4, 2006 Report Posted January 4, 2006 And what prevents teams from gang tackling?Team Speed.What else? Inability to hold people up so thers can come to help. We can't freaking wrap people up. Quote
HairOnFire Posted January 4, 2006 Report Posted January 4, 2006 What else? Watch great defenses and you'll often see defensive lineman who are unable to make the play themselves grind and string a play out wide, slowing things up until help arrives. On the Bengals only much maligned Justin Smith does this with any regularity. Quote
walshfan Posted January 4, 2006 Report Posted January 4, 2006 Odell Thurman and Deltha Oneal are playmakers....Every other player on the defense could leave for all I care.... Quote
Paul Robinson Posted January 4, 2006 Report Posted January 4, 2006 Gang tackle.I just watched the Steelers short cuts with the Lions, and though they did everything they could to lose the game, their d and special teams saved them. The one thing that really jumped out (after watching the Bengals shortcuts just before) is that there were 2-3 steelers bringing a guy down on every play, sometimes more. Watch the other top D's in the league. They all swarm. We don't.I truly think this is a coaching deficiency.Interesting take on the Steelers-Lions game. After watching the highlights on NFL Network, I'm convinced the defensive game plan was pure vanilla--it looked like a preseason game. I'm not sure how much the Bengals will learn from watching that game tape.I agree with the gang tackling observation, but the young guys (Thurman in particular) need watch that they don't overpursue. Look out for at least one reverse with Ward or Randle El this week. Quote
walzav29 Posted January 4, 2006 Report Posted January 4, 2006 I think the Bengals know everything about the Steelers that they need too. I also feel that they confused Palmer the first 3 times they played, but he figured them out. Once he figures you out, I think Palmer has your #. His 1st games against Baltimore was brutal, and then the light went on the 2nd game and he has now lit them up 3 straight. Quote
The_Next_Big_Thing Posted January 4, 2006 Report Posted January 4, 2006 Odell Thurman and Deltha Oneal are playmakers....Every other player on the defense could leave for all I care....Tory James is a playmaker. Keiwan Ratliff is a playmaker. Brian Simmons is a playmaker. Madieu Williams is a playmaker. Kevin K is a playmaker (not as physically gifted, but a bigtime playmaker for his spot on the team). Quote
walshfan Posted January 4, 2006 Report Posted January 4, 2006 Odell Thurman and Deltha Oneal are playmakers....Every other player on the defense could leave for all I care....Tory James is a playmaker. Keiwan Ratliff is a playmaker. Brian Simmons is a playmaker. Madieu Williams is a playmaker. Kevin K is a playmaker (not as physically gifted, but a bigtime playmaker for his spot on the team).Tory James has a few interceptions granted..he's also being burnt alot and gets no help in covrage from the safties.Ratliff is decent and one of the worst punt returners Ive ever seen.Simmons gets his assed chewed out by Marvin more and more.. and why is that?Williams gets hurt allot.. playmakers have to be on the field..KK is a backup.. please! Quote
bengalboomer7 Posted January 4, 2006 Report Posted January 4, 2006 I don't know if I'd give half those guys "playmaker status"I think Tory has looked slow all year, he can make up a step with his length, but he's been beat by more than a step on the regularI don't get Marvin's use of Keiwan. I think he's too slow on man coverage(noticably too slow), but a good run support CB. I honestly see Keiwan ratliff + 10 pounds as Marvin perfect interchangable SS.I don't know if I'd give half those guys "playmaker status"I think Tory has looked slow all year, he can make up a step with his length, but he's been beat by more than a step on the regularI don't get Marvin's use of Keiwan. I think he's too slow on man coverage(noticably too slow), but a good run support CB. I honestly see Keiwan ratliff + 10 pounds as Marvin perfect interchangable SS.Simmons is solid, but can also often go unnoticed in gamesNo argument on Madieu, you can just see the hole from losing him out there. Quote
The_Next_Big_Thing Posted January 4, 2006 Report Posted January 4, 2006 Odell Thurman and Deltha Oneal are playmakers....Every other player on the defense could leave for all I care....Tory James is a playmaker. Keiwan Ratliff is a playmaker. Brian Simmons is a playmaker. Madieu Williams is a playmaker. Kevin K is a playmaker (not as physically gifted, but a bigtime playmaker for his spot on the team).Tory James has a few interceptions granted..he's also being burnt alot and gets no help in covrage from the safties.Ratliff is decent and one of the worst punt returners Ive ever seen.Simmons gets his assed chewed out by Marvin more and more.. and why is that?Williams gets hurt allot.. playmakers have to be on the field..KK is a backup.. please!Indeed, KK is a backup. I'm glad you are such a genius to realize that. It gives you great credit to be able to figure that out. However, that being said, for what he gets paid, he makes a LOT of plays. He is always around the ball and has recovered several fumbles, has intercepted the ball, and has been responsible for several tips that turned into interceptions. Your superior intellect, or lack thereof, extends even further as you say Williams gets hurt allot. I have never seen him assigning portions, and as for him being injured a lot, that's a bunch of BULL. He was injured ONCE, this season, and it ended his season. Last season he was called on to play each and every position in the secondary and did so admirably. I guess you are one of the mensa qualified asshats who thinks TJ gets injured a lot too since he missed a season once in his career.Simmons gets chewed out by Marvin because more is expected of him. He's still a quality player.As for James, if he's getting burnt because of a lack of safety help, does that make HIM less of a playmaker? I guess Carson Palmer isn't a playmaker since Chris Henry has dropped a lot of balls this season too. Quote
walshfan Posted January 4, 2006 Report Posted January 4, 2006 Odell Thurman and Deltha Oneal are playmakers....Every other player on the defense could leave for all I care....Tory James is a playmaker. Keiwan Ratliff is a playmaker. Brian Simmons is a playmaker. Madieu Williams is a playmaker. Kevin K is a playmaker (not as physically gifted, but a bigtime playmaker for his spot on the team).Tory James has a few interceptions granted..he's also being burnt alot and gets no help in covrage from the safties.Ratliff is decent and one of the worst punt returners Ive ever seen.Simmons gets his assed chewed out by Marvin more and more.. and why is that?Williams gets hurt allot.. playmakers have to be on the field..KK is a backup.. please!Indeed, KK is a backup. I'm glad you are such a genius to realize that. It gives you great credit to be able to figure that out. However, that being said, for what he gets paid, he makes a LOT of plays. He is always around the ball and has recovered several fumbles, has intercepted the ball, and has been responsible for several tips that turned into interceptions. Your superior intellect, or lack thereof, extends even further as you say Williams gets hurt allot. I have never seen him assigning portions, and as for him being injured a lot, that's a bunch of BULL. He was injured ONCE, this season, and it ended his season. Last season he was called on to play each and every position in the secondary and did so admirably. I guess you are one of the mensa qualified asshats who thinks TJ gets injured a lot too since he missed a season once in his career.Simmons gets chewed out by Marvin because more is expected of him. He's still a quality player.As for James, if he's getting burnt because of a lack of safety help, does that make HIM less of a playmaker? I guess Carson Palmer isn't a playmaker since Chris Henry has dropped a lot of balls this season too.Your such an idiot...You think this defense is good?? Are you that much of a homer!James cant tackle worth a damn on top of getting burnt.Williams for all his abillities is hurt so how does he help any?Simmons is out of position more times than not .. Thats why Marvin is in his face ..KK is around the ball after a big gain.. big deal.. Quote
The_Next_Big_Thing Posted January 4, 2006 Report Posted January 4, 2006 I'm the idiot? This from the asshat who says a guy is hurt allott (which by the way means to parcell out) because he has ONE INJURY?I didn't SAY this defense is good. We still need pieces. We need more qualified backups at several positions. Some of our starters on the Dline should be backups. Cornerbacks aren't SUPPOSED to be great tacklers. If your corners are your best tacklers, there's a big problem. Our defensive line isn't getting it done, plain and simple. Our very young linebackers are out of position too much. Our FREE SAFETY is around the ball more than just after long gains, of course you'd have to watch the freaking game to see that. You're busy seeing that a guy is allotted injury time. Quote
walshfan Posted January 4, 2006 Report Posted January 4, 2006 If a corner isnt a good tackler he better be shutdown then and James is neither of the two...Its not a question of backups dunce... its a questions of more playmakers everywhre on the field... Quote
The_Next_Big_Thing Posted January 4, 2006 Report Posted January 4, 2006 If a corner isnt a good tackler he better be shutdown then and James is neither of the two...Its not a question of backups dunce... its a questions of more playmakers everywhre on the field...First of all, once again, someone who doesn't know the difference between allott and a lot should not be calling someone a dunce.Secondly, we have playmakers on the field. We need a few more, and we need some of those playmakers to get more experience to improve the defense. We have a lot (please note, not allott) of very young players on the defensive side of the ball. We have a lack of depth at safety. That shows when our two starters go down and we only have 1 capable backup left. Safety play affects both the run defense AND pass defense. You talk about corners needing to be good tacklers. SHOW ME MORE THAN ONE GOOD TACKLING CORNER IN THE LEAGUE. James is a good corner. He is a playmaker who, because he isn't a superfast cornerback, NEEDS safety support to be effective. Hell, ALL of our corners need good safety coverage. Why? BECAUSE SUPERFAST, SHUTDOWN, cornerbacks are exceptionally rare. Quote
walshfan Posted January 4, 2006 Report Posted January 4, 2006 If a corner isnt a good tackler he better be shutdown then and James is neither of the two...Its not a question of backups dunce... its a questions of more playmakers everywhre on the field...First of all, once again, someone who doesn't know the difference between allott and a lot should not be calling someone a dunce.Secondly, we have playmakers on the field. We need a few more, and we need some of those playmakers to get more experience to improve the defense. We have a lot (please note, not allott) of very young players on the defensive side of the ball. We have a lack of depth at safety. That shows when our two starters go down and we only have 1 capable backup left. Safety play affects both the run defense AND pass defense. You talk about corners needing to be good tacklers. SHOW ME MORE THAN ONE GOOD TACKLING CORNER IN THE LEAGUE. James is a good corner. He is a playmaker who, because he isn't a superfast cornerback, NEEDS safety support to be effective. Hell, ALL of our corners need good safety coverage. Why? BECAUSE SUPERFAST, SHUTDOWN, cornerbacks are exceptionally rare.We have potential playmakers.. get it?? we hope they will step up and be consistent playmakers which they arent yet...you wish and hope but in reality this defense is not good at all.. they give up 30 per game in the second half of the season.. get real or quit posting threads to me... Quote
The_Next_Big_Thing Posted January 4, 2006 Report Posted January 4, 2006 If a corner isnt a good tackler he better be shutdown then and James is neither of the two...Its not a question of backups dunce... its a questions of more playmakers everywhre on the field...First of all, once again, someone who doesn't know the difference between allott and a lot should not be calling someone a dunce.Secondly, we have playmakers on the field. We need a few more, and we need some of those playmakers to get more experience to improve the defense. We have a lot (please note, not allott) of very young players on the defensive side of the ball. We have a lack of depth at safety. That shows when our two starters go down and we only have 1 capable backup left. Safety play affects both the run defense AND pass defense. You talk about corners needing to be good tacklers. SHOW ME MORE THAN ONE GOOD TACKLING CORNER IN THE LEAGUE. James is a good corner. He is a playmaker who, because he isn't a superfast cornerback, NEEDS safety support to be effective. Hell, ALL of our corners need good safety coverage. Why? BECAUSE SUPERFAST, SHUTDOWN, cornerbacks are exceptionally rare.We have potential playmakers.. get it?? we hope they will step up and be consistent playmakers which they arent yet...you wish and hope but in reality this defense is not good at all.. they give up 30 per game in the second half of the season.. get real or quit posting threads to me...So let me get this straight, you don't count picking off passes as "making plays"? Deltha O'Neal, with 10 interceptions this season, isn't a playmaker? Tory James with 5 isn't? Odell Thurman with 5 isn't? Keiwan in limited time with 3 and Kevin Kaesviharn with 3 isn't? Teams without playmakers DO NOT LEAD THE NFL IN TAKEAWAYS. David Pollack with 4.5 sacks playing PART TIME after missing training camp isn't a playmaker? Kevin Kaesviharn isn't a playmaker, despite having 63 tackles from the FREE SAFETY position where you aren't supposed to be tackling? Oh wait, that's right, he's our 3rd stringer who started all season, he's not SUPPOSED TO BE THE #2 Tackler on the team behind, that's right, the non-playmaker Odell Thurman at Middle Linebacker. And KK's 3 fumble recoveries aren't making plays either. SO WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR DEFINITION OF A FREAKING PLAYMAKER if it's not a guy who makes big plays?Indeed, as I said we are missing some pieces, however, it's not a lack of PLAYMAKERS. It's a lack of consistency, experience, and cohesion. Quote
NYBengalfan Posted January 4, 2006 Report Posted January 4, 2006 Gang tackle.I just watched the Steelers short cuts with the Lions, and though they did everything they could to lose the game, their d and special teams saved them. The one thing that really jumped out (after watching the Bengals shortcuts just before) is that there were 2-3 steelers bringing a guy down on every play, sometimes more. Watch the other top D's in the league. They all swarm. We don't.I truly think this is a coaching deficiency.Interesting take on the Steelers-Lions game. After watching the highlights on NFL Network, I'm convinced the defensive game plan was pure vanilla--it looked like a preseason game. I'm not sure how much the Bengals will learn from watching that game tape.I agree with the gang tackling observation, but the young guys (Thurman in particular) need watch that they don't overpursue. Look out for at least one reverse with Ward or Randle El this week.They have done the reverse more than once in both games this year. So look for them to do it to start the game, and somewhere in the third qtr. Quote
BengalByTheBay Posted January 4, 2006 Report Posted January 4, 2006 I'm not so much worried about reverses -- almost every team does this regularly against the Bengals -- probably to try to capitalize on the overpursuit. Sometimes it works. More often it would probably work better to just run straight at us. My concern is that I think Cowher will try a trick play at some point in the game. Last year he got us with the fake FG. They haven't tried a true trick play against us this season in either game (end of game onsides kicks don't qualify), so that's what I'm looking for on Sunday. Quote
buck3y3d Posted January 4, 2006 Report Posted January 4, 2006 I wish I could find the article espn ran on DBs but I can't.To summarize. Deltha was first in almost every statistical cetegory in the League!Tory was in the lower quartile in almost every statistical category in the League with the exception of ints! Maybe he could wave to the guy as they run by him.We need 1 more corner. I don't think its a move will make this year, but next year's draft could see us pick 1 up. Quote
Whodey420 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Posted January 5, 2006 This is off topic I know but "The_Next_Big_Thing" if you're gonna try and call someone out on their grammar make sure you get it right yourselffirst dumbass. It's alot (one word einstein) not a lot (2 words).You may continue. Quote
Stripes Posted January 5, 2006 Report Posted January 5, 2006 This is off topic I know but "The_Next_Big_Thing" if you're gonna try and call someone out on their grammar make sure you get it right yourselffirst dumbass. It's alot (one word einstein) not a lot (2 words).You may continue. Hmmm.... I am certain it is two words.... I seem to recall many old ladies at my elementary school blowing that in my face over and over.... Quote
membengal Posted January 5, 2006 Report Posted January 5, 2006 a lottwo words.awesome the direction that this thread has taken. Quote
TIMEsteelersfan Posted January 5, 2006 Report Posted January 5, 2006 Right you are TDB... right you are. You won't find "alot" in the dictionary. Quote
Whodey420 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Posted January 5, 2006 Maybe I'm the dumbass. Damn Florida public school system!! Quote
walshfan Posted January 5, 2006 Report Posted January 5, 2006 Big Thing typed a lot.. meaning i want to buy a lot to build a house on.I type fast so Im prone to typos allot... get it? Quote
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