The Dirt On The Bengals' Defense from Fox Sports

[ShulaSteakhouse]

A lot of this is already known by us - but it justifies my opinions of what is happening certainly, and further indicates that more change than fans think is necessary should happen next year here on defense.

Bills Stun Bengals

Without interceptions, the Bengals defense is severely flawed. They rank in the league's bottom 10 in yards allowed, completion percentage, and sacks. Giving up more big plays in order to make interceptions is a strategy that has paid off for most of the season but backfired on Saturday.

If we remove interceptions from the equation for all teams, the Cincinnati defense's DVOA drops from 13th to 30th. No other team is even close to being as reliant on interceptions; the second largest drop-off is only seven spots.

Over the course of a season, Cincinnati's aggressive defense has picked off a league-high 31 passes. But when the interceptions do not come, the Bengals let players like Kelly Holcomb suddenly look like they belong in the Pro Bowl.

The Bengals hope to explain this loss away as a game they controlled but lost on two exceptional plays by McGee, the kick return and a game-clinching interception returned for a touchdown. They did gain more total yards than Buffalo and got more first downs. Still, they were far from dominant, staying in the game thanks to surprisingly stout red zone defense. Three times they held Buffalo to a field goal inside the 10-yard line despite being among the worst red zone defenses in the league this season.

The Bengals finish the season with a difficult game at Kansas City. With a playoff berth already secured, they will likely rest some regulars and fall to the Chiefs. A loss coupled with a win by New England over Miami would put the Bengals into the fourth seed hosting Jacksonville in the first round of the playoffs. Such a match-up is problematic for the Bengals because Byron Leftwich throws very few interceptions, only five in over 300 attempts this season.

If Leftwich is fully healthy, Jacksonville poses a serious threat to the Bengals. They would be best served by returning to their early-season strategy, stopping the pass and allowing Fred Taylor to get his yards. This defense is still a work in progress and is only strong enough to limit one aspect of an opponent's attack. Between stopping the run and stopping the pass, they are better off stopping the pass to prevent yardage from coming in chunks. Pressuring the box and allowing Leftwich to make plays down the field will lead to a quick exit for the Bengals in their long-awaited return to the playoffs.

Bottom line, 3 years into his tenure, Marvin's defense is still ranked consistently at the bottom of the league and his unit is holding his team back from a Superbowl appearance with that kind of offense.

I cannot imagine a coach like him putting up with this much longer, and I have to think some really tough personnel decisions will have to be made in the off-season...

Literally the whole d-line has to be turned over for one - and that will take a while - better get started.

As for the playoffs - I agree with this article - go back to what you were doing early in the year and let it ride on defense.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Bottom line, injuries hit us hard in key positions on defense again. KK has been starting for us all season. That's not a dream position to be in, and he's definately not the guy we want starting 15 games for us. However, he has certainly shown he can show up and play well as a backup. On the other hand, when our other safety went down, we had no 4th stringer worth playing. We knew this was a weak point before the season started. Losing Kim Herring and Madieu Williams for the season hurts, plain and simple.

At the same time, we are still a player away on the defensive line, and a year away from our extremely young linebacking core to be mature enough to make the plays they need to.

Marvin has been building his defense. He will put the final pieces to it next draft. Remember folks, when he came here, he gutted the team and started a complete rebuild. Only a few players got to stick around. Of our players, 47 of the total 67 players associated with the team have five or less seasons experience in the league. We are a very young team, particularly on defense.

We have a young bunch of guys learning their second defensive scheme in three years.

[Kirkendall]

OK. Take away interceptions? Isn't that something a little too BIG to find the net of this defense? Silly me. I thought interceptions were big...

[GROIIIDayton]

When he took away our intercepts did he take away the other teams to? It doesn't sound like it.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

OK. Take away interceptions? Isn't that something a little too BIG to find the net of this defense? Silly me. I thought interceptions were big...

Come on now, it's not like if they took paychecks away from your reason to go to work it would be THAT big a deal!

[Jet23]

[richmond_mat]

Anyone who truly believes this Bengal team can win the super bowl this year has some issues. I'd love to see it, but it isn't going to happen.

This is the best Bengal team in a LONG time and should be applauded for whatever it accomplishes this year. Be it a first round win or loss, I'll be toasting the team and their resurgence.

As for the quotes, they're interesting. I'd hate to see the D resort to giving up on the run.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Anyone who truly believes this Bengal team can win the super bowl this year has some issues. I'd love to see it, but it isn't going to happen.

Anyone who believes it is impossible for this Bengals team to win the Super Bowl this year has even more issues than someone who believes that the Bengals CAN INDEED win on ANY given Sunday, including Super Bowl Sunday.

[Riagogogoindanati]

Anyone who truly believes this Bengal team can win the super bowl this year has some issues. I'd love to see it, but it isn't going to happen.

This is the best Bengal team in a LONG time and should be applauded for whatever it accomplishes this year. Be it a first round win or loss, I'll be toasting the team and their resurgence.

As for the quotes, they're interesting. I'd hate to see the D resort to giving up on the run.

It is funny to hear other teams fans on this site dogging us out. RichMat....I ditto your response. We are a young team...........Black Jesus has only been here for 3 seasons.......We (Bengals fans) are excited in regards to our fantastic year.....the thing is.....the Bengals have more potential for next year and many years to come, if we draft responsibly............Don't get me wrong......it would be great to go to the big dance. Football fans across the country have no idea what is to come................

To Marvin: DRAFT RESPONSIBLY!

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

To Marvin: DRAFT RESPONSIBLY!

What makes you think he wouldn't continue to do what he has been doing? Following the advice of the nearly miraculously improved scouting department that joined our front office just before Marvin Lewis.

[bengalboomer7]

Here's what I don't get. How can you take away INT's. Why not take away our passing Td's or Rudi's rushing yards. To me that statement is bogus That's like saying if I wasn't retarded I'd be a pretty smart guy

[richmond_mat]

Anyone who truly believes this Bengal team can win the super bowl this year has some issues. I'd love to see it, but it isn't going to happen.

Anyone who believes it is impossible for this Bengals team to win the Super Bowl this year has even more issues than someone who believes that the Bengals CAN INDEED win on ANY given Sunday, including Super Bowl Sunday.

Nothing is impossible, but the bengals in the super bowl (this year) is very improbable. They're very young and the defense stinks. But if they can get the turnovers then they will have a chance. But remember Pitt II? They were PLUS FOUR and Pitt still had a chance to win at the end.

Which leads me to question the O-coordinator, but I know you eat from the Brat Brownies

IF they get to the big dance then yes I agree that they will have a good chance. I just do not see them getting there.

I know this is not a popular opinion but sometimes the truth hurts. I'll be cheering as hard as anyone, but I expect it to be in vain at some point during the playoffs.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Here's what I don't get. How can you take away INT's. Why not take away our passing Td's or Rudi's rushing yards. To me that statement is bogus That's like saying if I wasn't retarded I'd be a pretty smart guy

Is this an admission to being retarded? All we need now is for Spain to do the same!

[ShulaSteakhouse]

As for the playoffs - I agree with this article - go back to what you were doing early in the year and let it ride on defense.

I know what you are saying, but I believe their best bet is to go with the formula that beat Pittsburgh. What they are saying about Byron is the same thing they said about Ben, but he threw 3 picks. Like Ben, he doesn't throw picks, because they are a running team and they don't ask him to throw the ball as much as other qbs. Letting them run all over us is playing right into their hands.

Arguments can be made either way, but the author's point is that, you have to take your defense for what it is - a defense that is TOTALLY reliant on INT's almost - and play to your defense's strengths - at this point in the season at least, accept them for what they are - not very good. If you take away a passing game and the big plays and long 3rd down conversions - the running game isn't nearly as significant as long as it's reasonably contained. Stop the big passing plays - it's KILLING them (see Indy and Buffalo games for a good example).

There is NOTHING worse than watching a team grind out first down after first down, with our high powered offense sitting on the sidelines.

This is exactly what happened last week, and many times prior to that - long drives - big 3rd downs given up - keeping our offense off the field. In this particular area - not sure there is much of a difference either way they play - they can't get off the field too often.

I understand that the probem has been that we have played better against the run, but 3rd down defense is killing us. I know ML and Chucky are not big blitz guys, but maybe we need to mix a few more in there.

I agree, with this offense ready to score points - take more chances - mix it up - use your team speed to make plays and be aggressive - way too passive for my taste lately - they give up big 3rd down plays any ways - just gamble and let your offense get them back in it if they give up a big play or two as a result - it's better than milking 7 minutes off the clock and giving up a TD or FG.

As for my comments on the defense next year - wasn't everyone saying how this 23-28th ranked defense last year could be in the top 10 or 15 this year after the "young guys get better?" Err what happened?

So we're back to that mantra again eh? You really think Madeiu is going to vault them into the top 15 alone?

I don't care if someone thinks my opinion isn't agreeable or valid - you'll see what I'm talking about when some of those supposed "untouchable players" who have been here a while are gone next year, or not starting. Just watch!

Here's what I don't get. How can you take away INT's. Why not take away our passing Td's or Rudi's rushing yards. To me that statement is bogus That's like saying if I wasn't retarded I'd be a pretty smart guy

Made this point in my reply above - everyone takes any kind of criticism about the Bengals' too personally here - he's just pointing out how reliant the defense is on INT's - much more so than any other team by far. They are a smoke and mirrors defense that relies on something they can't control.

INT's are great - counting on a QB in the playoffs to throw 2-3 of them a game is unrealistic, and not going to win you many games in the postseason.

So, you might as well accept it, and play to your strengths from here on out and see what happens.

[Spain]

I think this d had a chance to improve to help us get the big one, but with Injuries, hold outs and age they seem to to be sliding. Not the front seven but the secondary. The fall off when Deltha went down was horrible. So lets see what this writer has to say when he is back in there. In short you cant take a microcosim of a season and say thats how it is. This D is well on its way to being dominant , it just probably wont happen this year.

[Riagogogoindanati]

To Marvin: DRAFT RESPONSIBLY!

What makes you think he wouldn't continue to do what he has been doing? Following the advice of the nearly miraculously improved scouting department that joined our front office just before Marvin Lewis.

HEY BIGGS.........I ONLY MEANT FOR HIM TO KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK WITH THE DRAFTS........YOU ARE RIGHT................WE'VE MADE HUGEMONGOUS IMPROVEMENTS IN OUR SCOUTING DEPT......I AM SURE THAT IS ONLY ONE OF THE REASONS WHY MARV CAME HERE. I JUST WOULD HATE TO SEE 'OL MIKEY BOY PULL THE RUG OUT FROM UNDER US. EVEN THOUGH THE BENGALS ARE EXCEEDING THIS YEAR AND MIKEY HAS TAKEN A BACK SEAT...I STILL HAVE THIS FEAR........A RECURRING NIGHTMARE...........THAT MIKE BROWN WILL WAKE ME UP FROM THIS GLORIOUS DREAM.......BUT, I KNOW HE WANTS TO WIN, TOO.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

This D is well on its way to being dominant , it just probably wont happen this year.

How does a 22nd ranking (recently as low as 28th) despite all the INT's - tell anyone that this defense will be "dominant" anytime soon with the current personnel and Breshnahan?

I just don't see it. I suspect 3-4 new starters and/or situational players will be brought in next year if possible. I just don't see how you can accept the performance this year or just keep the status quo of the last 3+ years in tact on defense here.

If you do that, I guarantee they'll be 8-8 again with a tougher schedule next year.

[HoosierCat]

As for the playoffs - I agree with this article - go back to what you were doing early in the year and let it ride on defense.

It's not about strategy, it's about personnel. Specifically, it's about Bryan Robinson and Shaun Smith. I went into it over on the "blame game" thread.

[buck3y3d]

Here's what I don't get. How can you take away INT's. Why not take away our passing Td's or Rudi's rushing yards. To me that statement is bogus That's like saying if I wasn't retarded I'd be a pretty smart guy

You guys are really, really optimistic. How about I just take away int's from the games against the NFC North? Now we only have 13 interceptions in 11 games and our record is 7 - 4. We are not that good now are we? The fact is that we are not a consistent defense and we don't get that many interceptions. You guys can ignore the statistics, but they're true. We are not going to the Super Bowl, we might not even make it out of the Wild Card round.

Finally, it's not an injury problem. Williams is the only player who we are truly missing. Herring would not start on 20 teams in this league. Delta and Tory are slow and make up for it with fantastic ball skills, but they are only average overall. If they don't intercept it, they give up huge plays. We need two big DT's, at least one more end, and one more safety. I'd even like a shutdown corner.

We are two drafts and free agent signing periods from a legitimate super bowl contender. We could make it next year, but that would require the optimistic "any given sunday" scenario. Let me remind you, the intensity in the playoffs means good team whip up on the bad ones. That is why you see scores like 41 to 14. If I had to guess, we won't be the one only allowing 14 points.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Finally, it's not an injury problem. Williams is the only player who we are truly missing. Herring would not start on 20 teams in this league.

Says you. Marvin says otherwise. Remember, he recruited Herring to be our starting strong safety. Herring is a hell of a player, he's just been injury prone since he got here.

Delta and Tory are slow and make up for it with fantastic ball skills, but they are only average overall.

So let me get this straight, Tory went to the Pro Bowl last year, and Deltha is going this year, but they are only average? Put down Spain's crack-pipe and pay attention. Both are top tier CBs. They may have average SPEED, but they are above average corners. Would you rather have a guy who's super fast but can't cover for crap?

[Jet23]

Here's what I don't get. How can you take away INT's. Why not take away our passing Td's or Rudi's rushing yards. To me that statement is bogus That's like saying if I wasn't retarded I'd be a pretty smart guy

You guys are really, really optimistic. How about I just take away int's from the games against the NFC North? Now we only have 13 interceptions in 11 games and our record is 7 - 4. We are not that good now are we? The fact is that we are not a consistent defense and we don't get that many interceptions. You guys can ignore the statistics, but they're true. We are not going to the Super Bowl, we might not even make it out of the Wild Card round.

Finally, it's not an injury problem. Williams is the only player who we are truly missing. Herring would not start on 20 teams in this league. Delta and Tory are slow and make up for it with fantastic ball skills, but they are only average overall. If they don't intercept it, they give up huge plays. We need two big DT's, at least one more end, and one more safety. I'd even like a shutdown corner.

We are two drafts and free agent signing periods from a legitimate super bowl contender. We could make it next year, but that would require the optimistic "any given sunday" scenario. Let me remind you, the intensity in the playoffs means good team whip up on the bad ones. That is why you see scores like 41 to 14. If I had to guess, we won't be the one only allowing 14 points.

Wow, the ship is taking on water. I'm not ready to give up on this year. Too many times I have seen teams / fans say, we will be better next year. Just wait till next year. Many times next year never comes. The 2006 Bengals will be a lot like the 2005 Chargers. Good team, really tough schedule. Who knows what will happen.

I am realistic, they have weaknesses, but my hope is that the defense has yet to play their best ball. Guys are still maturing. And when this team plays inspired ball, it is something to see. I think they lost focus and even became bored at times. One playoff victory and this year has to be labeled as a success, but that doesn't mean I will be happy when / if they are eliminated. They have a decent shot. Stranger things have happened...

[schweinhart]

Super Bowl Baby

It's just like starting the season all over again....Anything less than the players thinking they would take a 9-0 record into the bye was doing a disservice to themselves. Didn't happen, but was closeer to reality than farther away from it. Same goes for the Super Bowl.

We're 1 week away from the 2nd season now. None of this going into hobbled or overexposed. It's a brand new season and whoever keeps delivering the goods takes it all. The Bengals got the goods to get there and they just got to get them delivered is all. Time for the coaches to step and really earn their bread to see that the best chances are given to deliver the goods. Enough of the pieces are in place right now to do it, even with the shortcomings, which every team has.

[richmond_mat]

Super Bowl Baby

It's just like starting the season all over again....Anything less than the players thinking they would take a 9-0 record into the bye was doing a disservice to themselves. Didn't happen, but was closeer to reality than farther away from it. Same goes for the Super Bowl.

We're 1 week away from the 2nd season now. None of this going into hobbled or overexposed. It's a brand new season and whoever keeps delivering the goods takes it all. The Bengals got the goods to get there and they just got to get them delivered is all. Time for the coaches to step and really earn their bread to see that the best chances are given to deliver the goods. Enough of the pieces are in place right now to do it, even with the shortcomings, which every team has.

I love your optimism. WHO DEY

[Ox]

And optimism, my friend, is a hellaova lot nicer than constant pessimism around these parts. Something that we haven't had the luxury of having since I was 12.

[Kirkendall]

Anyone who truly believes this Bengal team can win the super bowl this year has some issues. I'd love to see it, but it isn't going to happen.

This is the best Bengal team in a LONG time and should be applauded for whatever it accomplishes this year. Be it a first round win or loss, I'll be toasting the team and their resurgence.

As for the quotes, they're interesting. I'd hate to see the D resort to giving up on the run.

It is funny to hear other teams fans on this site dogging us out. RichMat....I ditto your response. We are a young team...........Black Jesus has only been here for 3 seasons.......We (Bengals fans) are excited in regards to our fantastic year.....the thing is.....the Bengals have more potential for next year and many years to come, if we draft responsibly............Don't get me wrong......it would be great to go to the big dance. Football fans across the country have no idea what is to come................

I agree mostly what you're saying...

But why not this year? They still have to play the game and other than Pittsburgh I, were they out of the game at any point in time. In each game, other than Pittsburgh I, the Bengals were either winning or damned close to tying the game.

But I would like to ask the other pessimists (you know, the one's that told us we'd be 8-8 again, or 9-7 "at best" (for the record, I said 12-4 )-- who's going to beat us?

We beat Pittsburgh once and if we play them, they're coming to our house in the first post season game in how many seasons at Cincy? The energy alone in the city, I believe, will carry this team and fire them up more than ever. We lost to Jax and the Colts by a touchdown. We kicked the hell out of Denver last season and I think we can beat them as much as a Denver fan thinks they can beat us. We don't have to worry about Buffalo's 8-game winning streak against us (aye-aye).

Sure, we could just say, "oh this team isn't as good as it could be" (and I do think we're exactly on pace with Indy's growth two seasons ago) but why? I say to everyone, f**k it, let's ride this baby as far as it goes. If it doesn't go all the way, fine, "there's always next season". If we do, well, I'm inviting everyone to my mansion for some drinkin'...