Odell vs Shawne

[rizzy]

Ok so Shawne Merriman is going to the pro bowl as a rookie and Odell is not. I think Odell is having a better than him and Odell has had the most impact on his team.

Shawne Stats

G Tk Ast Sck Stf FF FR PD Int Yds TD

13 35 11 9.0 5.0 2 0 4 0 0 0

Odell Stats

G Tk Ast Sck PD Int Yds TD

14 62 30 1.5 9 5 59 1

I just don't get it I am Merriman will get DROTY also since he made the pro bowl. I know I want the bengal players to win everything, but this I just don't understand. The only Merriman has done is sack more. Just don't get it. Odell deserves DROTY more than him but I don't see that happening now that this guy is going to the pro bowl.

[Spain]

Sacks mean everything. Sad but true!

[bengalindian]

I thought picks meant everything?

[Whur CHad At?]

Picks don't mean everything....

Shawne Made the Pro Bowl cuz he pretty much wuupped Peyton Mannings ass.

[Stripes]

An interception surely means more than a sack as far as its value to a football game, but not in Rookie of the Year Land.

[bengalindian]

I know, I was just mocking Spain. And I think that Merriman got the Pro Bowl because of his performance against the Colts, and the fact that there aren't many amazing OLBs. The two that are going in front of Odell (Al Wilson and Zach Thomas) are pretty good.

[rizzy]

I know, I was just mocking Spain. And I think that Merriman got the Pro Bowl because of his performance against the Colts, and the fact that there aren't many amazing OLBs. The two that are going in front of Odell (Al Wilson and Zach Thomas) are pretty good.

Yeah that is what I think is bullsh*T. He sacks Peyton 3 times and everyone is all over him. Of course it really shouldn't matter we know Odell has helped the Bengals by leaps and bounds. He just isn't getting the respect he deserves outside of the Bengals orginization.

[turnip]

Was Merriman voted in? I thought voting ended before the Chargers-Colts game, though I could be very wrong

[bengalboomer7]

No Turnip, actually I think Odell was ahead of him in fan votes, which makes it that much harder to argue, cause that means Merrriman ws picked by the players and coaches. Harder to argue that

[buck3y3d]

Personally, I think Merriman has made fewer mistakes than Odell. Odell still plays like a rookie in some games. I know linebacker mistakes are more noticeable, but I do think Merriman is having the better season. I don't really care if Odell wins because he'll just end up getting Super Bowl MVP. Actually, I better reserve that for Carson.

[Kazkal]

An interception surely means more than a sack as far as its value to a football game, but not in Rookie of the Year Land.

diden't a CB win it last year? and odells a LB and will get more Int's then any rookie cb

Personally, I think Merriman has made fewer mistakes than Odell. Odell still plays like a rookie in some games. I know linebacker mistakes are more noticeable, but I do think Merriman is having the better season. I don't really care if Odell wins because he'll just end up getting Super Bowl MVP. Actually, I better reserve that for Carson.

harder to make mistakes when all your doing is blitzing

[Stripes]

diden't a CB win it last year? and odells a LB and will get more Int's then any rookie cb

Johnathan Vilma (linebacker) won it over D.J. Williams (linebacker) and Dunta Robinson (cornerback). Vilma had all the tackles, but a lot of people, myself included, thought Robinson had the best season.

[LB51]

I thought picks meant everything?

Unfortunately, a sack is considered a more "glamorous" stat in the NFL. Not sure why though. I would figure that an INT has more game impact than a sack. He's probably gonna get screwed out of the D-ROY honor but that'll put a chip on his shoulder for next year. Imagine how good this guys gonna be. It makes me giddy!

[membengal]

Personally, I think Merriman has made fewer mistakes than Odell. Odell still plays like a rookie in some games.

Merriman has one job: "kill the quarterback"---I would hope he has less mistakes, he really has f**kall little to do on the field but that. Thurman has been entrusted with being the leader of the defense as a rookie. I am hugely impressed with what he has gotten done at MLB. Put it this way, if he had had that kind of year for the Giants, we would all be tired of hearing how great he is.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Personally, I think Merriman has made fewer mistakes than Odell. Odell still plays like a rookie in some games. I know linebacker mistakes are more noticeable, but I do think Merriman is having the better season. I don't really care if Odell wins because he'll just end up getting Super Bowl MVP. Actually, I better reserve that for Carson.

Agreed. The MLB position carries more responsibility and the Bengals defense was notorious for not being able to stop the running game the first half of the season. I'm sure that hurt Odell's chances. Plus he still does make plenty of mistakes - plays he should make - he doesn't too often. Merriman has also been very steady and has improved with time - Odell has been inconsistent.

Also, pass rushers are at a premium - they are hard to find - much like franchise QB's or good starting pitchers in pro baseball...and finally Merriman plays in a bigger market and gets more exposure.

Odell will probably get there some day if he works hard enough. He's a great, raw talent.

But like Levi, I think we tend to overrate our own team's players obviously.

Just because someone doesn't go to the pro bowl, doesn't mean they aren't as talented, or not a good or even a great player - football's such a true team sport that nothing is cut and dry and production can be a lot harder to measure than a sport like baseball or basketball where individual stats carry more weight.

Just the way it is, and why I really don't care about the Pro Bowl at all or if someone goes or not - it's "nice," but ultimately I could care less - just makes them less likely to be re-signed!

[CantStop85]

I don't know...Odell's been much more consistent and has more stats, but of course he's also started more games than Merriman. Merriman simply has more of those highlight reel plays than Odell.

Personally, I don't think Odell or Merriman deserved to go to the pro bowl this year.

[Stripes]

Personally, I don't think Odell or Merriman deserved to go to the pro bowl this year.

I agree, and this point may be all that matters. Both of these players have been a bit overrated all season long. Either is deserving of this recognition, it is hard to make a strong case for one over the other.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I thought picks meant everything?

Unfortunately, a sack is considered a more "glamorous" stat in the NFL. Not sure why though. I would figure that an INT has more game impact than a sack. He's probably gonna get screwed out of the D-ROY honor but that'll put a chip on his shoulder for next year. Imagine how good this guys gonna be. It makes me giddy!

The idea, I think, is that many picks for LBs come from "right place, right time" bounces from tipped balls, etc. And to be fair, that does explain a majority of Odell's picks if I recall correctly. On the other hand, sacks for a LB are perceived as being more of an individual effort, and thus rewarded. Not saying that's necessarily correct, but ya know.

I have to say, I might give the nod to Merriman right now, he's a bit more polished and Odell still makes some glaring mistakes - though I will say, not so many recently.

Don't get me wrong, we hit the lottery with Odell, as long as he doesn't start carpooling with Chris Henry.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Personally, I think Merriman has made fewer mistakes than Odell. Odell still plays like a rookie in some games. I know linebacker mistakes are more noticeable, but I do think Merriman is having the better season. I don't really care if Odell wins because he'll just end up getting Super Bowl MVP. Actually, I better reserve that for Carson.

Merriman has made fewer mistakes because he's not in on as many plays. He sits down a lot more than Odell. Odell is a 4 down player, Merriman is a 2 or 3 down player depending on if it's 3rd and short. All he does is rush the quarterback. He doesn't tackle for crap (thus less than HALF of Odell's total tackles).

[The Brew Man]

Tough choice here. Odell was the obvious frontrunner up until the last month or so, but Merriman made a huge charge(no pun intended) and the Indy game put the icing on the cake for players and coaches. If Im not mistaken, the fan voting closed before last weekends games, but the players and coaches votes were cast after that....?

At any rate, this one was too close to call as I feel both players had a very positive effect on their teams D's this year.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

The_Next_Big_Thing wrote:

Merriman has made fewer mistakes because he's not in on as many plays. He sits down a lot more than Odell. Odell is a 4 down player, Merriman is a 2 or 3 down player depending on if it's 3rd and short. All he does is rush the quarterback. He doesn't tackle for crap (thus less than HALF of Odell's total tackles).

Not sure about that - a MLB is going to have a lot more opportunities than a pass rushing OLB to make tackles - and a pro bowl MLB is going to have well over 100 tackles this time of year. Odell doesn't, and that really hurt his chances at making it. I surely don't think Merriman "tackles like crap" either.

If he has 130 tackles this time next year and a # of combined sacks/INT's/TFL, then I can see him making it.

I do agree with you that Odell has more opportunities to make mistakes - but that comes with the responsibility of his position - I thought pro bowlers were chosen based on their specific positions any ways - you can't line-up Merriman at MLB in the pro bowl - so i'm not sure why we're arguing one over the other as it is.

If Pollack were used like Merriman like he should be, and wasn't a long hold out, he might be in Merriman's place possibly.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

The_Next_Big_Thing wrote:

Merriman has made fewer mistakes because he's not in on as many plays. He sits down a lot more than Odell. Odell is a 4 down player, Merriman is a 2 or 3 down player depending on if it's 3rd and short. All he does is rush the quarterback. He doesn't tackle for crap (thus less than HALF of Odell's total tackles).

Not sure about that - a MLB is going to have a lot more opportunities than a pass rushing OLB to make tackles - and a pro bowl MLB is going to have well over 100 tackles this time of year.

You mean like the guy Al Wilson from Denver who actually has FEWER tackles than Odell?

Al Wilson - 58 solo tackles, 9 assists, 3 sacks, 0 interceptions, 0 TDs 2 Forced Fumbles, 8 Passes Defensed

Odell 56 solo tackles, 28 assists, 1.5 sacks, 5 interceptions, 1 TD, 4 Forced Fumbles, 4 Passes Defensed.

Hrmn yeah, Odell doesn't belong....

[Tasher]

Fan voting was wrapped up through 12/16 with Player/Coach voting on 12/19 and 12/20. I think that the Indy game with all the hype of undefeated ya da ya da and the attention that Merry man got due to his performance accounts for his selection, especially considering that Odell really did not do anything vs Lions to jump off the page, not to mention that it was no where near national TV exposure that Indy vs SD had. considering that the SD game came the week prior to the vote has to have had an impact. If Odell had a performance like vs Tenn then we might have seen different results, or at least the inclusion of Odell along with Shawne.

Roty is still a separate issue, and Odell has a couple of weeks to perform to reestablish his credentials for the award.

Have to remember, Cincinnati is still one of the smallest markets and despite the year we are having, Indy is getting the Lions share of the attention due to the undefeated season from the national media that we would undoubtably be getting without that story. I think that we may see a very dramatic shift now that Indy is no longer undefeated in the amount of attention that we get from here on out.

[CantStop85]

The_Next_Big_Thing wrote:

Merriman has made fewer mistakes because he's not in on as many plays. He sits down a lot more than Odell. Odell is a 4 down player, Merriman is a 2 or 3 down player depending on if it's 3rd and short. All he does is rush the quarterback. He doesn't tackle for crap (thus less than HALF of Odell's total tackles).

Not sure about that - a MLB is going to have a lot more opportunities than a pass rushing OLB to make tackles - and a pro bowl MLB is going to have well over 100 tackles this time of year.

You mean like the guy Al Wilson from Denver who actually has FEWER tackles than Odell?

Al Wilson - 58 solo tackles, 9 assists, 3 sacks, 0 interceptions, 0 TDs 2 Forced Fumbles, 8 Passes Defensed

Odell 56 solo tackles, 28 assists, 1.5 sacks, 5 interceptions, 1 TD, 4 Forced Fumbles, 4 Passes Defensed.

Hrmn yeah, Odell doesn't belong....

Yeah, you're right...Odell doesn't belong. No one said Al Wilson belonged either because he really doesn't. There are other MLB's in the AFC more deserving than Al Wilson and Odell. I would even put Andra Davis in before both of them.

And like someone said before, Merriman is an OLB, Odell is a MLB...Merriman didn't make the pro bowl in place of Odell, they both play different positions.

[Kazkal]

damn more brown fans have more faith in odell