The Official "Trade Rudi Johnson in the Offseason" Thread

[jungleman]

why would you want to trade rudi his stats are on pace to be similar to last season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=2649

[Benzoo]

why would you want to trade rudi his stats are on pace to be similar to last season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=2649

I actually wanted to spur conversation/pros and cons of trading Rudi BECAUSE he's got great stats.

I figured that they would lose a certain amount of production, but it could have been worth it for the Bengals if they could get something of value in return. Would they be robbing Peter to pay Paul? Well, yeah they would, but if it meant that the return on that trade would garner help in other areas it might be worth the risk.

Then someone pointed out that cap concerns might make the point moot, I had to somewhat re think it.

I did some more thinking about the emminent CBA talks, and realized that if there is no deal in place, and no strike being considered, the salary cap would be put on hold for at least a year, thus making all bets off as far as how much they'll have to spend next season, considering they've got a boatload of good players already locked up.

Anyway, it was just a thought, and it had nothing to do with how much I like Rudi, and how much I understand how valuable he is.

Just a thought was all, no biggie.

[HairOnFire]

Hair are you being mean again?

Not really. Just making it clear that the next time someone starts an official trade an important Bengal thread they actually take the time to consider whether it's feasible to do so under the salary cap. To be fair, Joisey actually took the time to hold the guys hand on the money stuff. And since I considered cap concerns to be pretty basic stuff that Benzoo should have known before he typed the first friggin' word I deliberately limited my role to repeatedly pointing out how stupid the entire thread was.

Question: Is it really a mean act to point out stupidity? Isn't it more cruel, and ultimately more harmful, to coddle it?

Actually, I was calling you a troll.

You could be right. I'm told that my avatar depicts something called a heatmiser, and it's quite possible he could be a troll or a gremlin. I couldn't say for sure since I know nothing about him. To be completely honest, I can't stand the little fluffy guy and I've been thinking about replacing him with a discreet picture of a tit.

[Stripes]

I was checking the stats over on espn.com about this topic.

Rudi is 4th in the AFC in rushing yardage (778), behind only McGahee, Tomlinson, and James.

Chris Perry is tied for 1st in the AFC with LaMont Jordan for receptions by a running back (40), and is 11th among all AFC players at any position.

Does anyone really think we'd be better off losing either of these two players?

[membengal]

I was checking the stats over on espn.com about this topic.

Rudi is 4th in the AFC in rushing yardage (778), behind only McGahee, Tomlinson, and James.

Chris Perry is tied for 1st in the AFC with LaMont Jordan for receptions by a running back (40), and is 11th among all AFC players at any position.

Does anyone really think we'd be better off losing either of these two players?

Only moprons.

Your point is why Hair among others has no patience for the Rudi vs. Chris crap anymore (I know, I know Benzoo, that's not what you were trying to do...but you unfortunately innocently wandered into waters already befouled on this subject).

This team is 7-2 because it has both Chris and Rudi. Anyone who cannot understand that or will not accept that (and, more importantly, revel in it) has gotten tiresome. This team is built to respond favorably in all conditions and against all opponents. The offense can smash or finesse with the best of them. It is a truly versatile and dangerous offense. And it is that way, in large part, because of the depth and variety of skills that Rudi and Chris bring to the team at RB. We need both. It's time to stop this "one must go" stuff. It really is.

[semiotter]

Hey thats right we are 7(SEVEN) thats 777777777 and 2(two) the number two!!!! with both of them!!!So why get rid of either one of them?????? I think Marvin can handle the so called grumbling on his team. Im really getting tired of the Rudi HATERS, YES I SAID R U D I HATERS!!! You can say how much you love RUDI but thats BULL , So take this topic where I cant see it, hear it, or even think about it ,cuz ,I aint gonna say it we have mods. on here I keep forgeting. But they put this smilie on here for me to use....

Thats from RUDI saying he is still number one around here....Have a nice day...

[HoosierCat]

It's time to stop this "one must go" stuff. It really is.

I'd agree...if anyone was actually saying that. But while trading Rudi isn't really an option right now, due to salary cap considerations, it's going to become one in just a few short years.

Remember, Chris Perry is in year 2 of a 5 year deal. Right now, he's on pace for 850-900 combined rushing/receiving yards and about 6 TDs; he does that consistently over the next couple of years and he will be a hot commodity in FA (ask Lamont Jordan). Meanwhile, after the 2007 season, we would probably gain cap space by letting Rudi go. I'm not saying they should or will, but if they instead choose to extend him, then we probably won't be able to afford to keep Perry after '08.

[HairOnFire]

It's time to stop this "one must go" stuff. It really is.

I'd agree...if anyone was actually saying that. But while trading Rudi isn't really an option right now, due to salary cap considerations, it's going to become one in just a few short years.

Remember, Chris Perry is in year 2 of a 5 year deal. Right now, he's on pace for 850-900 combined rushing/receiving yards and about 6 TDs; he does that consistently over the next couple of years and he will be a hot commodity in FA (ask Lamont Jordan). Meanwhile, after the 2007 season, we would probably gain cap space by letting Rudi go. I'm not saying they should or will, but if they instead choose to extend him, then we probably won't be able to afford to keep Perry after '08.

((Heavy Sigh))

After the Bengals signed Rudi to a new long term contract every Bengal fan who fancies he knows his way around a salary cap article massaged the numbers and came to the same conclusion. Rudi got a buttload of money but the contract was remarkably fair to both sides. More important, due to the way the deal was structured it would be possible to trade or even cut Rudi after three seasons. So what do you say we all take off our asshats for a couple of years and enjoy watching Rudi provide the physical element this team so desperately needs. Meanwhile, we can all hope and pray that Chris Perry actually developes into a true running back instead of the pass catching role player he currently is. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving what Perry brings to the table. But this team doesn't have to choose between the two players and I think it would be pie-eyed stupid to force that issue based upon what Perry has shown to date as a power runner.

Call me mean if you must. Make fun of my ridiculous avatar if it helps. But this is a stupid thread and nothing about that fact is going to change for several years....a lifetime in NFL terms.

[Jet23]

It's time to stop this "one must go" stuff. It really is.

I'd agree...if anyone was actually saying that. But while trading Rudi isn't really an option right now, due to salary cap considerations, it's going to become one in just a few short years.

Remember, Chris Perry is in year 2 of a 5 year deal. Right now, he's on pace for 850-900 combined rushing/receiving yards and about 6 TDs; he does that consistently over the next couple of years and he will be a hot commodity in FA (ask Lamont Jordan). Meanwhile, after the 2007 season, we would probably gain cap space by letting Rudi go. I'm not saying they should or will, but if they instead choose to extend him, then we probably won't be able to afford to keep Perry after '08.

((Heavy Sigh))

After the Bengals signed Rudi to a new long term contract every Bengal fan who fancies he knows his way around a salary cap article massaged the numbers and came to the same conclusion. Rudi got a buttload of money but the contract was remarkably fair to both sides. More important, due to the way the deal was structured it would be possible to trade or even cut Rudi after three seasons. So what do you say we all take off our asshats for a couple of years and enjoy watching Rudi provide the physical element this team so desperately needs. Meanwhile, we can all hope and pray that Chris Perry actually developes into a true running back instead of the pass catching role player he currently is. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving what Perry brings to the table. But this team doesn't have to choose between the two players and I think it would be pie-eyed stupid to force that issue based upon what Perry has shown to date as a power runner.

Call me mean if you must. Make fun of my ridiculous avatar if it helps. But this is a stupid thread and nothing about that fact is going to change for several years....a lifetime in NFL terms.

It may or may not be a stupid thread, but rather than whining about it, why don’t you use the little arrow buttons on your keyboard to scroll up or down to find a thread that is more deserving of your incredible analytical abilities. Perhaps someone can start an advanced capology thread, so that we can all marvel at your vast knowledge and ability to effectively break down the financial intricacies of the game, oh ye omniscient one.

[HoosierCat]

But this team doesn't have to choose between the two players

Now? No. But teams today are reluctant to drop big bucks on one RB (ask James or Alexander); no way the Bengals will bestow big money on two of them down the road. As to which way they eventually jump...shrug. I dunno. Depends on what happens over the next two or three years. Which is, if you ask me, a great situation, for two reasons. First, I can watch two talented players tear up the field on behalf of my favorite team, and second, it means 2-3 more years of a topic that clearly drives you up a wall!

[HairOnFire]

It's time to stop this "one must go" stuff. It really is.

I'd agree...if anyone was actually saying that. But while trading Rudi isn't really an option right now, due to salary cap considerations, it's going to become one in just a few short years.

Remember, Chris Perry is in year 2 of a 5 year deal. Right now, he's on pace for 850-900 combined rushing/receiving yards and about 6 TDs; he does that consistently over the next couple of years and he will be a hot commodity in FA (ask Lamont Jordan). Meanwhile, after the 2007 season, we would probably gain cap space by letting Rudi go. I'm not saying they should or will, but if they instead choose to extend him, then we probably won't be able to afford to keep Perry after '08.

((Heavy Sigh))

After the Bengals signed Rudi to a new long term contract every Bengal fan who fancies he knows his way around a salary cap article massaged the numbers and came to the same conclusion. Rudi got a buttload of money but the contract was remarkably fair to both sides. More important, due to the way the deal was structured it would be possible to trade or even cut Rudi after three seasons. So what do you say we all take off our asshats for a couple of years and enjoy watching Rudi provide the physical element this team so desperately needs. Meanwhile, we can all hope and pray that Chris Perry actually developes into a true running back instead of the pass catching role player he currently is. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving what Perry brings to the table. But this team doesn't have to choose between the two players and I think it would be pie-eyed stupid to force that issue based upon what Perry has shown to date as a power runner.

Call me mean if you must. Make fun of my ridiculous avatar if it helps. But this is a stupid thread and nothing about that fact is going to change for several years....a lifetime in NFL terms.

It may or may not be a stupid thread, but rather than whining about it, why don’t you use the little arrow buttons on your keyboard to scroll up or down to find a thread that is more deserving of your incredible analytical abilities. Perhaps someone can start an advanced capology thread, so that we can all marvel at your vast knowledge and ability to effectively break down the financial intricacies of the game, oh ye omniscient one.

I'll respond to any thread I find in whatever manner I want, and I don't think I'll bother asking you for your advice in how to do so. If that displeases you I guess you can take your own advice and use the little arrows you mentioned OR you can dig in by making solid debate points OR you can take my advice and begin pounding sand up your ass pipe.

It is a stupid thread. Try blaming me if you want but the poster who started this "Official Trade Thread" did so without considering what the salary cap implications might be. IMHO that's incredibly stupid...as is the idea that we can have an intelligent conversation about the very idea of trading Rudi now when it won't be feasible to do so for YEARS. The NFL landscape changes too often and too fast for that.

Don't care? Still wanna talk about it? Well by all means go ahead and do so. I'm not trying to stop anyone from doing anything. But when we engage in stupid behavior then I reserve the right to call that behavior stupid, and I don't think I care very much if you'd rather I didn't say such things openly.

Go ahead, just try to move this conversation forward in a positive way. Take the points made in the original post and try to run with them. The short version claimed that this offense has passed Rudi by, that it was unfair to both RB's to split their carries, that Perry has proven to be the more valuable player, and that the Bengals could get a 2nd round pick for Rudi if they traded him prior to the next draft. In my opinion that's stupid, stupid, stupid, and stupid again. Now factor in the stupidity related to the salary cap issues.

So who wants to try salvaging this "Official Trade Rudi" thread? Anybody?

[Jet23]

OR you can take my advice and begin pounding sand up your ass pipe.

[derekshank]

I am not one who is ever a fan of name calling, and general meanness, as has been the case with HOF, but I'll have to say that I agree with him in principle. I'm not quite as agitated about it as he is... and for the most part I (as Jet23 suggested) refrain from posting in threads that I find ill-informed and a waste of time.... but to each his own.

My opinion is that the fewer posts on a particular thread, the more likely it is to die... as I am hoping this one will soon.

But If Hair likes to get into petty arguments about whether or not this thread is worth anyone's time... that is his privelege (although, like I said, I will kindly fail to endorse his manner)

[HairOnFire]

Let's clear some stuff up.

This is a stupid thread. That doesn't mean that I think Benzoo is a stupid poster. No kidding. What it means is that I think he started a very stupid thread. End of story. The fact remains that I don't agree with a single point he put forward, and based upon the other thread responses I'm not alone. In fact, even he admits that the very premise he built his post upon was fatally flawed.

For everyone telling me to lighten up....lighten up. Being called a skin bag is not an insult. We're all skin bags. The point I put forward is that anyone who couldn't see the importance of Rudi Johnson by now was a worthless skin bag. Benzoo responded that this description didn't fit him, he actually likes Rudi, and I'm willing to accept that. But he's still a skin bag, as I am, and as you are gentle reader. The real question is one of worth, and I'll repeat my opinion that anyone who can't see the value or importance of Rudi Johnson by now is a worthless skin bag. Or if you prefer...fugtarded.

Yeah, I can be mean. So what? That said, I feel like I'm swapping with a bunch of posters who aren't disagreeing with what I'm saying but wish I didn't attack someones right to be ignorant. Well, fair enough. I might even play along if this thread wasn't related to most worn out and tired rant I've ever encountered. And if you don't believe me go start the Official Trade Reggie Myles Thread and see how little I care. But the sad fact of the matter is this board has been the source of an amazing amount of disrespect for one of the best and most important players this team has, and I've obviously had my fill of it. I happen to think the Rudi bashers are the dumbest sort of fans I've ever encountered...especially when many of them are the same ones who'll complain that this team lacks toughness. If that description doesn't fit you personally then relax and assume that I didn't insult you. But if you do feel slighted by that remark...wade in and scrap or shut up.

Last, and this one is for Jet, please don't claim you weren't trying to make me mad when you very clearly were. Your rant about me being a self-important capologist ignores the fact that I've never claimed to be more of a cap expert than anyone else. It also ignores the fact that the very premise of this stupid thread ignored the most basic of cap information. Got it? Basic stuff.

It's a stupid thread.

[HoosierCat]

It's a stupid thread.

If that is indeed true...and I am provisionally prepared to grant the premise...then there is an unfortunate fact you must face, my friend. That being that you, sir, are King of the Stupid.

I began wiith the assumption that anyone who posted in a "stupid" thread more than once must be suspect. Call it the "Beavis" rule: normal people stick their hands in the fire once, get burned, and avoid the behavior in the future. Beavis, on the other hand, sticks his hand in the fire multiple times, getting burned every time, because it's cool. Hehehe. Hehehe.

But I digress.

So, of those who stuck their hand into the fire more than once, who wasted the most time? Here's how we stack up...

10. TDBengals: 120 words

9. semiotter: 126 words

8. ShulaSteakhouse: 131 words

7. schweinhart: 189 words

6. Jet23: 191 words

5. walshfan: 311 words

(Now, I got a little worried at this point...)

4. derekshank: 467 words

3. JoiseyCat: 546 words

YES! In your FACE, derek! Take that and shove it in your geeky, pen-protected, probably making a 6-figure salary while I drink crappy generic beer pipe and smoke it! I'm almost 80 words stupider than you and I didn't even count this post! YES!

But again...I digress...

2. Benzoo: 1,219 words

...and...drum roll please...

1. HairOnFire: 1,852 words

(Disclaimer: the above post is a joke. If you lack a sense of humor, please contact the nearest clown for immediate assistance.)

[schweinhart]

Remember, Chris Perry is in year 2 of a 5 year deal.

Of all the ignert, assernine, retarted, and otherwise worthy of the slug "Poopie Faced Turd", this has got to be the most egregious miscalcualtion of them all

Chris Perry is in the 2nd year of a 7 void to 6 year deal. Unless I am as stupid as I smell

But I just have to add, so that it's is abundantly clear and otherwise not minimized or understated if words are employed, that as the most eloquent of all American Vice-Presidents, Dan Quayle once stated:

"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice-president, and that one word is -- to be prepared."

BTW the word count now has me surpassing both Jet 23 AND Walshfan.. well now I've surpassed Walshfan because I needed 3 more words.

Also, might I add (Don't worry, I won't surpass Derek Shank), that, after all:

His name is Heat Miser

Whatever he touch

Melts within his clutch

He's too much

[Jet23]

It's a stupid thread.

If that is indeed true...and I am provisionally prepared to grant the premise...then there is an unfortunate fact you must face, my friend. That being that you, sir, are King of the Stupid.

I began wiith the assumption that anyone who posted in a "stupid" thread more than once must be suspect. Call it the "Beavis" rule: normal people stick their hands in the fire once, get burned, and avoid the behavior in the future. Beavis, on the other hand, sticks his hand in the fire multiple times, getting burned every time, because it's cool. Hehehe. Hehehe.

But I digress.

So, of those who stuck their hand into the fire more than once, who wasted the most time? Here's how we stack up...

10. TDBengals: 120 words

9. semiotter: 126 words

8. ShulaSteakhouse: 131 words

7. schweinhart: 189 words

6. Jet23: 191 words

5. walshfan: 311 words

(Now, I got a little worried at this point...)

4. derekshank: 467 words

3. JoiseyCat: 546 words

YES! In your FACE, derek! Take that and shove it in your geeky, pen-protected, probably making a 6-figure salary while I drink crappy generic beer pipe and smoke it! I'm almost 80 words stupider than you and I didn't even count this post! YES!

But again...I digress...

2. Benzoo: 1,219 words

...and...drum roll please...

1. HairOnFire: 1,852 words

(Disclaimer: the above post is a joke. If you lack a sense of humor, please contact the nearest clown for immediate assistance.)

O.k. Joisey, I had a mere 191 words, but only about 4 of them made any sense. I'm way stupider than you guys!

[HoosierCat]

Remember, Chris Perry is in year 2 of a 5 year deal.

Of all the ignert, assernine, retarted, and otherwise worthy of the slug "Poopie Faced Turd", this has got to be the most egregious miscalcualtion of them all

Chris Perry is in the 2nd year of a 7 void to 6 year deal. Unless I am as stupid as I smell

You real stinky...

http://www.cincypost.com/2004/08/11/bengside08-11-2004.html

5 years, $7 million...

[derekshank]

(Now, I got a little worried at this point...)

4. derekshank: 467 words

3. JoiseyCat: 546 words

YES! In your FACE, derek! Take that and shove it in your geeky, pen-protected, probably making a 6-figure salary while I drink crappy generic beer pipe and smoke it! I'm almost 80 words stupider than you and I didn't even count this post! YES!

A few comments on your appraisal of my life...

First... I've only posted twice... and one of those times was in hopes of ending the debate between the world and Hair... so all that means is I'm long winded.

Secondly, I don't drink beer... I only drink girly drinks, like wine coolers, but I do have a pipe (that my wife doesn't let me smoke)

Thirdly... I'm currently wearing a wife beater... so there are no pockets for me to protect... and yet I still have an alarming amount of pen stains on said shirt, due to an unfortunate laundry incident.

Lastly, If I made 6 figures, I'd probably work at a desk, and wouldn't have time to make such long-winded posts... but no, I am a graduate student who is spending more money than he will ever make in his life to get so-called education (Who's stupid now bitch?).

[HairOnFire]

I'd say the King of Stupid was anyone who bothered counting the words in any thread. Happily, I doubt you actually did that and have to assume that your last post was a well crafted joke. Props.

Sadly, I can't bring myself to forget that Joisey grew a small but smelly vagina after the Eagle preseason game when he declared the Bengals were doomed and further claimed they were no better than a .500 team. True, this form of fan stupidity wasn't all that rare as many Bengal fans grew vaginas after viewing that meaningless game. However, it was Joisey who whined loudest that cutting Peter Warrick was a mistake and further opined that P-Dub would probably match the production from his best season. To be fair I have often wondered if this too was just another well crafted joke from the Joisey shore. But I have strong doubts that it was as Joisey's P-Dub whining fit neatly into his incrdibly windy offseason whining about how the Bengals had fatally erred by re-signing Rudi and TJ instead of adding new faces. Faces like Jamie Sharper.

So when the matter of who might be the King of Stupid is discussed I've got my own nomination...if the defining factor is the number of empty words typed in support of worthless opinions.

[schweinhart]

Remember, Chris Perry is in year 2 of a 5 year deal.

Of all the ignert, assernine, retarted, and otherwise worthy of the slug "Poopie Faced Turd", this has got to be the most egregious miscalcualtion of them all

Chris Perry is in the 2nd year of a 7 void to 6 year deal. Unless I am as stupid as I smell

You real stinky...

http://www.cincypost.com/2004/08/11/bengside08-11-2004.html

5 years, $7 million...

I'm just breathing in the stink until finally I stunk.

True, all newspaper reports got Perry at 5 yrs but the NFLPA has him listed at 6 yrs through 2009.

I only mention it now because an extra year gives more time for his development before the Bengals make any choices regarding him or Rudi.

http://www.nflpa.org/Members/playerProfile.asp?ID=35718

Maybe a team option? Or a voidable year that's already voided based on what he's done this year? Dunno.

I do have to say in all of this, there's nothing like having 2 RBs who can in fact do something really well even if they can't do everything great. Priest Holmes just went IR with a bruised spinal canal and having Larry Johnson (another 1st rounder who has had to bide his time to get on the field) is quite an asset to have for a postseason run.

And speaking of smells, I guess Dick Vermeil won't be saying Johnson needs to get out of diapers any more.