Carson Palmer: Second Coming of Greg Cook?

[jrandom42]

Having been a Bengals fan for more decades than I care to recount here, I remember my first live Bengals game seeing a big strong rookie QB named Greg Cook, who looked like he'd shred the league. He had poise, confidence, mad skills and totally, freakishly, ungodly physical talent. The first play I remember seeing live was Cook launching a 70 yd TD rocket to Eric Crabtree.

It was one of the great tragedies of the Bengals franchise that he was injured after a rookie season so full of promise and never to play football again. If orthopedic medicine in 1970 was as advanced as it is today, he would have had his shoulder scoped and be back to playing in a few weeks.

Watching the Vikings game, I got the eerie shivers that I was seeing a ghost, a replay from one of the games I had seen during the 1969 season. A big, strong young quarterback with poise, confidence, mad skills and totally, freakishly, ungodly physical talent, stood in against the rush, and calmly, almost casually launched a 70 yd TD rocket to Chad Johnson. I watched as he calmly, patiently and carefully, dissected a pretty good Vikings defense and made their defensive coordinator look like a monkey.

Carson Palmer has been compared to Troy Aikman, Brett Farve and John Elway. I think a better way to look at Carson is to see him as the second coming of Greg Cook. Any thoughts?

[BlainThePain]

I'm sticking with the John Elway comparrison. I was telling people he was a clone of John Elway before we even drafted him.

[bengalfreek]

I'm sticking with the John Elway comparrison. I was telling people he was a clone of John Elway before we even drafted him.

He is nowhere near a clone of Elway. He's not in the same league mobility wise. Much closer to Marino. Although CP is much more mobile than Marino, comparing Carsen to Elway is like saying Jeff Blake is a clone of Michael Vick.

[Benzoo]

Why would you compare him with Greg Cook?

He hasn't had a career ending injury, and there's no way to compare them statistically because of Cook's small sample size.

There's simply no way to know what Cook would have done had he not been injured, and as it stands now Carson's closest yardage comparison at this stage in his career is Peyton Manning.

[membengal]

Wow, tough crowd. I think you miss his point benzoo, by about a mile and a half.

I didn't see Cook (born in 1970) but have read enough on him from guys that I truly respect in the football community who say he was the absolute quarterback truth to get excited about your comparison of Cook to Palmer.

And, yes, the 70-yards in the air heave to CJ was a thing of beauty last week.

[schweinhart]

Number 9

Number 9

Number 9

[jjakq27]

Cook was John Elway 15 years earlier. In my mind, Carson is a taller version of Aikman. Same low-key, team-first disposition and extremely accurate. Check out Hobson's QB comparison and you will be amazed. Remember this guy has started 15 games. That's it. He is 7-3 over his last 10 games.

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=4657

[BengalszoneBilly]

I think a better way to look at Carson is to see him as the second coming of Greg Cook. Any thoughts?

Yeah jrandom42. Aside from myself and a handful of other 40+ year old members, most guy's here are too young to have seen Greg Cook and really won't be able to make that comparison. You'd be lucky to get half of the guys here to say they remember Kenny Anderson! Slightly more for Boomer. Ask 'em about Akili. Now him they'll remember! Problem is they want to forget!

[HairOnFire]

Cook was John Elway 15 years earlier. In my mind, Carson is a taller version of Aikman. Same low-key, team-first disposition and extremely accurate.

Beat me to it. I'm old enough to remember Cook, but the personalities are too different for the comparison to hold up. Cook was supremely talented in all ways but was also brash, outgoing, and ego driven. He was also a talker in the mold of Chad Johnson. Meanwhile, Palmer is reserved, incredibly critical of his own performance, and despite demonstrating rare confidence seems almost totally lacking in ego. So for me, the Aikman comparison works best

[Benzoo]

Wow, tough crowd. I think you miss his point benzoo, by about a mile and a half.

I didn't see Cook (born in 1970) but have read enough on him from guys that I truly respect in the football community who say he was the absolute quarterback truth to get excited about your comparison of Cook to Palmer.

And, yes, the 70-yards in the air heave to CJ was a thing of beauty last week.

Can you expound on why I am missing the point "by about a mile and a half"? That second run on isn't making sense to me.

If the topic's originator is looking at this from a purely aesthetic angle (he LOOKs like Cook, he throws like Cook), I'll give him that.

Thing is Cook played in a grand total of 12 Games. Now, those twelve games were great in the AFL in 1969, there's no disputing that, but I'd like to project Carson out to play more games than that, and ultimately have a more healthy and fruitful career.

Like Peyton Manning or Troy Aikman.

Does he look like Greg Cook?

Cook had long hair, drove fast cars, and was all moddishly clad, and partied like Joe Namath. In fact, he was supposed to be the second coming of Joe Willie.

Carson's hair is closely cropped, he dresses in modern day jock clothes, is married, and likes to play paintball with his teammates. He's supposed to be the second coming of Troy Aikman.

Can he throw the ball a long way?

Yup.

So can lotsa other guys, and I would rather compare him to the ones that don't have careers cut tragically short by injuries. Those kinda comparisons scare the dickens outta me.

Membengal, you obviously missed my point by "about a mile and a half". I promise not to be so succinct the next time.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Carson Palmer is the FIRST CARSON PALMER. He's none of those other guys, he's himself. He's got a little Aikman, a little Elway, a little Marino, and no Vick.

In 10 years, they will be comparing people to Carson Palmer.

WHO DEY!

[semiotter]

Yes Gregs football life was cut short after he got hurt.

[membengal]

Wow, tough crowd. I think you miss his point benzoo, by about a mile and a half.

I didn't see Cook (born in 1970) but have read enough on him from guys that I truly respect in the football community who say he was the absolute quarterback truth to get excited about your comparison of Cook to Palmer.

And, yes, the 70-yards in the air heave to CJ was a thing of beauty last week.

Can you expound on why I am missing the point "by about a mile and a half"? That second run on isn't making sense to me.

If the topic's originator is looking at this from a purely aesthetic angle (he LOOKs like Cook, he throws like Cook), I'll give him that.

Thing is Cook played in a grand total of 12 Games. Now, those twelve games were great in the AFL in 1969, there's no disputing that, but I'd like to project Carson out to play more games than that, and ultimately have a more healthy and fruitful career.

Like Peyton Manning or Troy Aikman.

Does he look like Greg Cook?

Cook had long hair, drove fast cars, and was all moddishly clad, and partied like Joe Namath. In fact, he was supposed to be the second coming of Joe Willie.

Carson's hair is closely cropped, he dresses in modern day jock clothes, is married, and likes to play paintball with his teammates. He's supposed to be the second coming of Troy Aikman.

Can he throw the ball a long way?

Yup.

So can lotsa other guys, and I would rather compare him to the ones that don't have careers cut tragically short by injuries. Those kinda comparisons scare the dickens outta me.

Membengal, you obviously missed my point by "about a mile and a half". I promise not to be so succinct the next time.

Look idiot, you missed his point just like you figured it out this time. From someone who saw him, and he clearly acknowledged that Cook's time was short-lived due to injury, he is saying he looks like him. Reminds him of Cook based on his presence on the field and his ability to make all of the required throws on a football field. Commands the field like he did. He was NOT comparing him based on career. To go off on that tangent was dumb as hell, and it was precisely how YOU missed the point.

Succinct enough?

If someone compared Chris Perry to Gayle Sayers or Billy Sims (not that I am), I am guessing you would be similarly bothered because their careers were cut short by injury too?

[Benzoo]

Wow, tough crowd. I think you miss his point benzoo, by about a mile and a half.

I didn't see Cook (born in 1970) but have read enough on him from guys that I truly respect in the football community who say he was the absolute quarterback truth to get excited about your comparison of Cook to Palmer.

And, yes, the 70-yards in the air heave to CJ was a thing of beauty last week.

Can you expound on why I am missing the point "by about a mile and a half"? That second run on isn't making sense to me.

If the topic's originator is looking at this from a purely aesthetic angle (he LOOKs like Cook, he throws like Cook), I'll give him that.

Thing is Cook played in a grand total of 12 Games. Now, those twelve games were great in the AFL in 1969, there's no disputing that, but I'd like to project Carson out to play more games than that, and ultimately have a more healthy and fruitful career.

Like Peyton Manning or Troy Aikman.

Does he look like Greg Cook?

Cook had long hair, drove fast cars, and was all moddishly clad, and partied like Joe Namath. In fact, he was supposed to be the second coming of Joe Willie.

Carson's hair is closely cropped, he dresses in modern day jock clothes, is married, and likes to play paintball with his teammates. He's supposed to be the second coming of Troy Aikman.

Can he throw the ball a long way?

Yup.

So can lotsa other guys, and I would rather compare him to the ones that don't have careers cut tragically short by injuries. Those kinda comparisons scare the dickens outta me.

Membengal, you obviously missed my point by "about a mile and a half". I promise not to be so succinct the next time.

Look idiot, you missed his point just like you figured it out this time. From someone who saw him, and he clearly acknowledged that Cook's time was short-lived due to injury, he is saying he looks like him. Reminds him of Cook based on his presence on the field and his ability to make all of the required throws on a football field. Commands the field like he did. He was NOT comparing him based on career. To go off on that tangent was dumb as hell, and it was precisely how YOU missed the point.

Succinct enough?

If someone compared Chris Perry to Gayle Sayers or Billy Sims (not that I am), I am guessing you would be similarly bothered because their careers were cut short by injury too?

What does a thread title with the words "second coming" mean to you?

That's an honest question, and I would hope you could answer it without calling me names.

[membengal]

I should not have called you an idiot, my bad.

It implies a talent and skill level to me.

Everything that is written about Cook by people who saw him is universal in the praise for his skills and the ability he had. I presumed that is the original poster was getting at, not a comparison to his short career. It is possible to have otherworldy skills and still have a short career. I did not read that to mean that he is hoping or expecting that Palmer will match Cook for bad injury luck, I read it more as a nod to an important and largely forgotten part of the Bengals' history, a history that extends far before the days of Boomer or even Kenny.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I should not have called you an idiot, my bad.

Thanks membengal for that retraction. We're all Bengal fans here, (except for "Who.") and this year is going to be far too great for us to waste any of it with sniping at one another. Can I get a Who Dey?

[Ox]

WHO DEY!!

I could give a flaming shat less who Carson is the second coming of. All I care about is the man who is going lead us to our destiny, a winning season and eventually a superbowl.

[Benzoo]

I should not have called you an idiot, my bad.

It implies a talent and skill level to me.

Everything that is written about Cook by people who saw him is universal in the praise for his skills and the ability he had. I presumed that is the original poster was getting at, not a comparison to his short career. It is possible to have otherworldy skills and still have a short career. I did not read that to mean that he is hoping or expecting that Palmer will match Cook for bad injury luck, I read it more as a nod to an important and largely forgotten part of the Bengals' history, a history that extends far before the days of Boomer or even Kenny.

Forget about the idiot stuff...

I think we had a wee bit of a communication breakdown.

I agree with what you said up there, and had no problem with the thread author's point. If he reminds him of Greg Cook, so be it.

I was just EXPANDING the conversation by throwing out there that I feel it's bad mojo to compare healthy players with guys that had career ending injuries (that's what I meant when I said it "scared the dickens out of me"). I'm a superstitious cat, plain and simple. So if you would go on to compare Chris Perry to Gayle Sayers, you'd hear a few yelps from me because it's a scary notion.

Shoulda made myself more clear.

Here's a Greg Cook story:

My Grandfather attended Massilon High School (home of the Tigers, where Paul Brown got the Bengals name), at the same time Paul Brown coached there. He sorta became friends with him, even though he didn't play football (he was about to join the Marines). Anyway, he took my Dad to three games in 1969, and they got to go down on the sidelines during the game, so my pop took a super eight camera and took shots of the action, most of them centered around rookie Greg Cook. It was pretty cool to see, because the games were played at Nippert Stadium. My dad still remembers everything vividly, because he was in his early twenties at the time. I always made my dad show 'em to me when I was younger, and the last time we watched them was the day of the Super Bowl in 81....A game they lost, so I went up into my closet and locked the door and cried.

Anyway, Cook's always been a part of my Bengals experiences. I even used to listen to him when he hosted that pregame show from Barleycorns in the late eighties.

I'm kinda glad someone brought up Greg Cook.

[membengal]

Yeah, me too on Greg Cook.

So many of the younger folks know so little about the Bengals' history, just was kinda enjoying some reminiscing about the past. I overreacted, again, I apologize.

At any rate, I remain giddy that once again it appears it is Cincinnati's turn on the great quarterback caroseul.

For a franchise that has the relatively short history that the Bengals do, we have had some pretty damn fine quarterbacks.

Anderson SHOULD be in the HOF. Boomer was transcendant for several important years. Cook was apparerntly going to be on of the great ones before fate took him down. Now, it appears, Carson has a chance to be in that line. Really, that is the development that is what makes game days so damn exciting again.

Really, no matter what, I no longer feel any game is out of reach with Carson at the helm. It had been a long time since I last felt that.

[Benzoo]

No question about that.

If you look back at the "Good Old Days", they always had a good Quarterback at the helm. Then David Klingler happened and then the "Dark Ages" began.

Now we get to watch a team with an excellent signal caller, and we start getting all giddy again.

I'm having some kinda good time with it, to be sure.

[BengalszoneBilly]

No question about that.

If you look back at the "Good Old Days", they always had a good Quarterback at the helm. Then David Klingler happened and then the "Dark Ages" began.

Now we get to watch a team with an excellent signal caller, and we start getting all giddy again.

I'm having some kinda good time with it, to be sure.

Speaking of the (not all that plentiful) good old days, who here at Bengalszone now was even around and old enough to watch the birth of the Bengals in '68, and QB's like Jack Thompson and Greg Cook? Check in here a give us a quick view of how it all looked to you. We'll be checking I.D.'s, so have your social security cards ready.

In '68 I was 10 and had been watching the Browns games for a couple three years because that's all that was telecasted on Sundays. Kinda like being served a hot s**t sandwich for lunch every Sunday that you had no choice but to eat. During the offseason I remember hearing a great deal of hoopla on channels 5, 9, 12 newscasts about Cincinnati actually getting a professional football team that would be called the Bengals.

Looking back it seems like weird timing because it was also the same period when the Queen City lost their professional basketball team Cincinnati Royals (1970/71) starting the greatly popular native Ohio Basketball stars Oscar Palmer Robertson ("The Big O", product of U.C.) and Jerry Ray Lucas ("Luke," product of Ohio State) which was actually the last time I really gave a rats ass about an NBA team. In deference to bengalboomer, I throw the flag on myself and proceed...

What I don't remember is Mikes dad and the founder of the Cincinnati Bengals Paul Brown. I remember people talking about him, but that's it. Anyone else?

[membengal]

In 1968 I was not even a zygote.

But by 1978 I was already a Bengals fan doomed to life of highs and a lot of lows (but those highs are oh so good) as an 8 year old.

I remember the hope of Jack Thompson keenly, the resurgance of Ken Anderson and the improbably Forrest Gregg Super Bowl year of the early 80s.

I remember going to Boomer's first training camp and jokingly yelling "cut him" as he underthrew pass after pass at the start of high school for me in 1984.

The Super Bowl year was the start of college for me in 1988, the last playoff year in 1990 was the year I first went out with what became of my wife, and the entire length of our marriage has been spent with her asking me how in the world I can root for a team so gawdawful bad. I simply kept assuring her that it did not use to be this way.

I think, after the last few years and the start of this one, she is starting to believe me.

[redsfan2]

I was 18. My mind for the most part was on girls, but sports was a close second.

Cook was good no doubt about it. Thing is he didn't play long enough to prove whether he was for real or just a flash in the pan. As other guys have noted ... he was quite the character as well. Not a lot of other teams were even interested in him due to his off field " activities ".

I did read with interest the article about how Palmer stacks up against the two qb's ( Cincys' ) by which all the other are measured ...... namely Anderson and Boomer. If ....... big IF Palmer continues this season the way its started ( and where he ended last year ) then I think it'll a lot more accurate to say that he's the first coming of Palmer than the second coming of anyone else. There'll be that thing about getting us to a Super Bowl too of course.

Just my 2 cents.

[blueridge]

I also remember Greg Cook well. He was a tremendous talent. Bill Wash has said that Cook was the most physically talented QB he has ever coached. High praise indeed. Carson Palmer is now rapidly becoming the elite QB that Cook never got the chance to be. Of course, neither one of them is a John Stofa!

[AMC]

They all lick the boots of the man, the legend, the one and only Turk Schonert.....