redsfan2 Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Articles about Plamer are on Bengals. com as well as in the Dayton Daily News.Both of them are a bit of a departure from what has been said over the course of the season in that both are saying how Palmer feels ready to fill the role of starter if called on to do so. You'll get a better idea as to the feel or the tone of the articles if you read them yourself, but considering the sources I definitely took it as a glimpse of things to come. Hobson and Ludwig are both pretty much on the inside track as to whats happening with the team, and I don't think its coincidence that both of them are doing articles on the same day touting Palmers readiness to fill the starting job.I doubt this news will shock anybody, but its the first real hint of which way they're leaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 I'll be really pissed, not saying it's true, but if Mike Brown has ANY say on this, then I'll be more pissed than ever. I understand it's his $ to Palmer, but anytime an owner intervenes on field operations, you're asking for trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 I'll be really pissed, not saying it's true, but if Mike Brown has ANY say on this, then I'll be more pissed than ever. I understand it's his $ to Palmer, but anytime an owner intervenes on field operations, you're asking for trouble. Is Mikey starting to pull a "Jerry Jones" here, or what? Marvin won't tolerate such things. Coach Lewis ain't David Shula by a long shot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted January 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 You know .......... I just don't think Mike is involved in this. He's kept his hands off and his mouth shut for the whole season, so I don't see why he'd start now. I think this is Marvin Lewis all the way. He talked to Kitna as soon as the season was over. Kitna promptly announced that he would re structure his contract and fill the role of back up in order to stay with the team.Marvin says he will most likely name the starter before 1st camp in May, and there probably won't be a competition for the #1 spot. Says this was discussed with Kitna and they will talk again in the near future. Kitna says no competition is the way to go and if there had been one suggested, that he would have told the team to make Palmer the starter and taken the back up role.Articles simultaneoulsy appear in the dayton newspaper and on Bengals.com stating that Palmer is ready to fill the role of starter if called on. Note that in two different instances that Kitna has associated himself with the #2 spot at qb and said he is fine with it.Palmer has had other people doing the talking for him as far as placing him in the role of starter, and has said the he is ready if asked. .............. that is worth noting, because in the past Palmer had said that he was not ready and he would only know that he was ready when coach Lewis told him so.Translation - Lewis met with Kitna and told him Palmer would be starting next year. Kitna was evidently supportive, and was offered a re structured deal .... the terms of which to be worked out. Lewis makes the first non committal statement to the media concerning the move at quarterback and lets everyone speculate openly in the paper thereby preparing the public for the news.Hobson and Ludwig are given access to Palmer who responds to their queries about the situation by affirming that he is ready to fill the role of starter when called on to do so. Says decision is out of his hands ( true ) but that he is going to prepare as if he's going to be the starter anyway .... like he always does. Result - Everybody knows what is really going on even though it hasn't been said. Kitna gets his new contract which is announced a few weeks before the start of the first camp, and Palmer is introduced as the starting quarterback for the season. Lewis maintains how valuable Kitna is to the organization, and that is why they are keeping him, but Palmer is the future. Players report to camp already knowing Palmer is the starter. Kitna helps to quell what little grumbling there is from the players, and things are worked out before the first snap of pre season. Kitna to Palmer with no muss no fuss no controversy.#1 Mike isn't that subtle. It just doesn't sound like him. This is coach Lewis going according to the schedule that he's said he had all along. He figured Palmer was ready .... wanted to keep Kitna too, and had Katie and Troy work out the details. I'm sure Mike was consulted and that if he didn't agree at first that he was convinced by Katie and Troy. I really think that at this point they are the real power behind the scenes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 Makes sense, redsfan. Now to see if the tea leaves you read match reality... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brew Man Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 Yeah, I like the way that sounds, we will see how it plays out,.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 Kitna was quoted as saying during the season that " There are things That Carson can do that i can't, and i know he's gonna do great things for this team. ". Anytime your starter starts complimenting the guy behind him.. he know's the hourglass is almost empty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 I think Kitna just has more character and class than most of us observe in sports, I seriously doubt Kitna wants to hold the paper clip with a Bengals hat. He's just showing the great attitude this leader exhibits week in and week out. A class and we'd lose a lot if Kitna were to join another team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 I can see them focusing on the run to take the pressure off of Palmer. I think might be why Coach Lewis said that signing Rudi is a priority this offseason. With a little help on the defensive side of the ball, they can play keep-away and "ease" Palmer into the job. That was the basic idea that the Ravens had with Boller this past season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted January 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Makes sense, redsfan. Now to see if the tea leaves you read match reality... Gave up on tea leaves ................... read that on the ice cubes in the bottom of the glass. Somehow things just look clearer through them. I thought it would be a sensible way to handle things too. That's exactly why it won't happen. That and I've yet to be right when I was trying to figure out what coach Lewis would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richmond_mat Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Redsfan-that is one good piece of innuendo. But I don't agree with it. As I've said on many a thread:Kitna is the quarterback of this football team, until he gets hurt or Palmer outplays him.You cannot win a job in practice so Palmer will get his chance by game 8 next year when kitna is knocked out of a game. You can't win without a stable QB situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 or Palmer outplays him. Judging by Jon's last few performances, I doubt that's a very tall order. Carson's talent quotient towers above Kitna's. I think we'll all see that soon...I hope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Carson's talent quotient towers above Kitna's.I think experience plays a role here. If you were to put one QB in right now to win one game, I'd definately put Kitna in; he knows what defenses do and what his receivers can do. Carsons talent won't come into light probably until he understands how to play the game at the higher, faster tempo that he hasn't experienced yet. The only reason I'd put in Palmer next season is to prepare him for our super bowl run in 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted January 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Carson's talent quotient towers above Kitna's.I think experience plays a role here. If you were to put one QB in right now to win one game, I'd definately put Kitna in; he knows what defenses do and what his receivers can do. Carsons talent won't come into light probably until he understands how to play the game at the higher, faster tempo that he hasn't experienced yet. The only reason I'd put in Palmer next season is to prepare him for our super bowl run in 2005. I usually follow and understand your posts pretty well, but you got me this time. This post ( to me ) seems a little contradictory. You wouldn't put Palmer in if you wanted to win a game, but you would in order to prep for a superbowl run in '05. That is going to require a lot of wins. The only thing I could come up with is that you think Palmer is still going to need a year of ojt in order to consistently win games. If that is your position, I'm not sure I agree. There have been a couple of guys that have come in for different teams around the league when the starter went down and then held on to the job when the starter was healthy again. They got their experience the same way Palmer has done ..... from the sidelines. I also don't think the guys I'm referring to ( with maybe a couple of exceptions ) had Palmers talent either. If Palmer is as advertised, then I think he'll be up to all aspects of the job when the season opener rolls around. That's not to say that he won't make a few mistakes, but then so does every other qb. I also think he needs the same support from the coaches etc. that Kitna got. In other words, if he goes 0 and 3 he doesn't get yanked just like Kitna didn't. If he's the one, we'll be able to tell, and if he's not then I think that will show as well. It didn't take too long to figure it out with Klingler or Smith. Conversely, even through a couple of rough spots, you just KNEW that Manning was the real thing. Same with Elway and Favre. I think a lot of everybody's concerns about Palmer really have their roots in the " days of helplessism " syndrome that we all go through in differents situations. With you its the qb situation. with others its the Dillon / rb situation, and with me its the big game on tv situation ....... god ...... even just typing that gave me the willies ........... see what I mean ??By the way ...... after reading some of my last posts, whenever I say Plamer ...... I really mean Palmer ....... sometimes I'm a little slixdeslic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted January 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Wanted to mention something else on this matter too, and forgot. Lewis had a quote about team decisions in general and the qb situation in particular. Some decisions are the realm of the front office, and others are his. His comment was to the affect of ..... I didn't come here to be told who to start at quarterback. I pretty much believe that. If it did happen, I don't think it would sit very well with coach Lewis and I think it would cause an instant and negative change in the realtionship that he has with the organization. I checked out some of his quotes etc. on the Redskins site when he got hired here, and when he wasn't pleased with the way something was going, the "nice guy" smile and demeanor went straight out the window. He can be very blunt when someone or something sets him off. If and when Palmer does start, I think it'll be Lewis' decision and no one else's. They may offer opinions, and he may consider them, but beyond that .... if you believe what he says they won't really sway his decision one way or he other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 I don't question his physical abilities. I question his ability to read blitzes, defenses, make audibles, etc. -- things you don't learn until you in a game situation (not practice, not preseason, but regular season). My point is that Kitna's experience -- albeit inferior talent wise -- outweighs Palmer's potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted January 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 I don't question his physical abilities. I question his ability to read blitzes, defenses, make audibles, etc. -- things you don't learn until you in a game situation (not practice, not preseason, but regular season). My point is that Kitna's experience -- albeit inferior talent wise -- outweighs Palmer's potential. Got it. Yeah ..... that's a tough call. Experience vs Potential. Thing is that you'll never know how much capability that potential will turn into unless you give it the chance to come out. Sticking with Kitna may be the safest thing to do. But how long do you play it safe ??? Sooner or later they're going to have to start him. I'd like to see him in actual game situations before I say that his lack of experience will keep him from measuring up to Kitnas level of play." The ability to make good decisions comes from experience. Experience comes from having made bad decisions". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Josh, It appeared to me that Kitnas ability to read blitzes and defenses was mediocre. All too many times it seemed he looked shocked at all the unblocked bodies coming at him, and then he didn't have the presence of mind to get rid of the ball! God, he was so frustrating eating the ball and taking the sack time after time in critical third down situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Josh,It appeared to me that Kitnas ability to read blitzes and defenses was mediocre. All too many times it seemed he looked shocked at all the unblocked bodies coming at him, and then he didn't have the presence of mind to get rid of the ball! God, he was so frustrating eating the ball and taking the sack time after time in critical third down situations. I kind of disagree, while you could find the faults of Kitna, sure he's not the greatest QB we've seen, but you could alternately find plays that helped this team -- The Bengals ranked 3rd on 40 yard passing plays with 11. On third downs, Kitna converted 181 3rd down for first -- 9th in the NFL and 3rd in the AFC. I realize that stats don't always tell the tale, but Kitna by far created more positive for this team than negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 I realize that stats don't always tell the tale, but Kitna by far created more positive for this team than negative. Yeah...you're probably right. It just my frustration showing from having to endure 12 years of pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 It just my frustration showing from having to endure 12 years of pain.That's why I'm so afraid to put all of my energies and hope behind a young unproven QB, you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 I'd rather reap the rewards of Palmer getting his feet wet next year against a difficult schedule than put up with another year of ... " let's hope Kitna doesn't throw the game away again in the 4th quarter." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Well I guess it's pretty much worthless to talk about this anymore, we're all set in our ways to either bashing Kitna or putting our eggs in a basket with Palmer. I hope which way Marvin goes, it works out. Who-Dey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 I'm not bashing Jon for the admittedly good overall job he did this year. I just think we've seen the full extents of his talents, and he knows it. Why else would he be so willing to step aside, restructure his contract, etc, just to hang around as a backup. If he had anything more to bring to the table, he wouldn't be offering up what he has. I'm VERY comfortable with him in the backup role. He could step in at a moments notice, and the offense wouldn't lose a step! Am I right? I don't want him gone, I just think he knows what his future holds, and he's preparing for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted January 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Well I guess it's pretty much worthless to talk about this anymore, we're all set in our ways to either bashing Kitna or putting our eggs in a basket with Palmer. I hope which way Marvin goes, it works out. Who-Dey!I hope that no one interperated any of my comments to be bashing Kitna. I think the guy has been great for the team. I've said on other threads that most of the things that people try to pin on Kitna were really the result of someone else not doing their job or of Kitna trying to do too much when they were behind. I've also said that I hoped Kitna stays with the team because he would make a great mentor for Palmer.Having said all of that, I believe that Palmer is the future of the team or he wouldn't have been taken in the draft ....... and certainly not at the #1 pick. I don't mean any disrespect to Kitna in saying that, its simply recognizing the situation for what it is. As for Kitna being the back up, I don't think he would want to necessarily, but I think he would accept it with no problem if he felt it was best for the team. He's already told coach Lewis that he'll do that and restructure his contract in order to stay with the team. I think Lewis will start Palmer. I think Kitna will stay with the team as the #2 guy. I think the team will be OK with it, and I think that he'll do well. But that's just what I think .... that's all. The only thing I know for sure is that coach Lewis will start the guy who he believes will give him the best chance to win. Hell .... I've hardly been right about what I thought he'd do since he got here ( except for Dillon ...... since the day after the trade deadline ) ...... All of us talked back at the beginning of the season that Lewis was pretty astute as to who to start and who to sit. If he says Kitna is still the guy ........ then I'm good with that. If he does say its Palmer though, then I'm a lot more comfortable with it because I trust his judgement. We can discuss the pros and cons of Kitna vs Palmer forever and not change each others minds, but the one thing we all seem to agree on is trusting Lewis' judgements concerning the team. Lewis is the first head coach we've had that I could say that about without reservation since Sam Wyche. And come to think of it sometimes I thought that poor bastard was mad as a hatter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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