Uh-Oh Lewis has had it.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

I think everyone who is putting Pollack down will be put in their place once he does get on the field.

That's not in question, and no one has questioned his athletic ability. It's the fact he's not here is what's in question. It's the attitude Pollack has... not the skill he has.

Marvin's comments big time reflects the attitude most have about Pollack "I think we’ve really fought very hard to eliminate these kind of actions around here and it’s a shame that it occurred. We have other guys who have chosen to be here and we’ve eliminated selfishness that occurs."

It's the same stubborn, don't quit, give 150% every moment attitude that he is showing by wanting as much out of his contract as he can get that projects into his tough stubborn don't quit attitude on the field.

[Stripes]

I think everyone who is putting Pollack down will be put in their place once he does get on the field.

That's not in question, and no one has questioned his athletic ability. It's the fact he's not here is what's in question. It's the attitude Pollack has... not the skill he has.

Marvin's comments big time reflects the attitude most have about Pollack "I think we’ve really fought very hard to eliminate these kind of actions around here and it’s a shame that it occurred. We have other guys who have chosen to be here and we’ve eliminated selfishness that occurs."

It's the same stubborn, don't quit, give 150% every moment attitude that he is showing by wanting as much out of his contract as he can get that projects into his tough stubborn don't quit attitude on the field.

Good point, hadn't thought of it that way yet.

[Kirkendall]

No doubt Biggie. The difference? Team-oriented vs. selfishness and that's the uproar that's against Pollack right now. And it's not the same as previous seasons, b/c the team is completely different. This team has a legit chance at being a contender as before 1st rounders only signed to get their max return. Now, the team wants a return in their investment, and part of that return is doing the greater good for the team.

And ability isn't everything. We dumped Spikes and Dillon (two pro-bowl players) and we, fundamentally, got better.

[Spain]

this is all Polak on the pregame interview marvin put the blame on him!

[CBin2k7]

The most glaring obvious difference and something that is overlooked is he is switching positions. He needs to be in camp working on the switch to LB. There was no guarentee how smoothly that was going to go even with a full camp. Now with camp breaking on Wed and no deal where does that leave him? Where does it leave the team? After a while, it's time to step on the field and let your play do the talking.

[buck3y3d]

One has to imagine that the Bengals have offered Pollack slot money, this means the reasons for not signing are all on Pollack. (I realize incentives are debatable, but even at 19 the Rams offered a slighlty higher maximum of 11 million, but no signing bonus) This is what the Ravens did for Clayton, much earlier, and hopefully it will now work for Pollack.

[ArmyBengal]

Didn't Pollack just get married ?? It's all his wife's fault, she's messing with his head telling him to get more money. Anyone think of that ??

Just kidding, looking to place blame on anyone who looks suitable at this point...

WHODEY !!!

[Spain]

Marvin said he thinks he is an awpert on contracts now! This is all him the guy isfreakin nut case, It wouldnt bother me at this point if we just sucked it up and made the bastard sit out the whole season!

[BlackJesus]

BlackGuy: "Pull your sleeves down you selfish wet crotched Mangina"

[dave]

I've said it before: anyone who risks their starting job, even for a game or two, over what amounts to a small amount of money in the long run, has their priorities screwed up. What's especially annoying, as some others have said, is that the initial talk about him was that he was all football, a real warrior, blah blah. Real warriors play. Screw him.

[UofLnMU]

Lighten up, Francis. Do I want him out there? Hell yes. Do I think it's the best he started out of the gate--not necessarily even if he was in camp. Am I frustrated? Hell yes. Am I trashing all my Pollack memorabilia? Nope. Blah blah.

Let's talk more about Odell Thurman's motor. That's much more pleasant.

[HairOnFire]

:blink:BJ< does that horse have a prosthetic leg?

Am I the only one that noticed taht

Uhhh, I counted four healthy legs, a huge Tommy Lee style joint, and one shiny support bracket on the fake horse bride.

My advice: Look closer at the picture or forever risk never understanding why David Pollack is holding out.

BTW, after seeing that picture I will never complain about my job ever again.

[membengal]

Marvin Lewis said what needs to be said. And siad it just like it needs to be said.

The Bengals now need to tell Pollack and his agents that their best offer is on the table and tell them not to call again until they are ready to accept it.

In the meantime, we all need to move on. If Pollack persists in allowing himself to be a pawn for Condon and Kremer in their war against the now standard loyalty clause that is a part of Bengals' contracts, well, there is not much we can do to convince him he is jeapoardizing the first part of his career for sports agents. Better to simply accept what we cannot change and enjoy what is on the field.

I also look forward to thinking and hearing more about Thurman.

[Bobcat Bengal]

I dunno what to think man...

I mean, I remember the dude (Pollack) saying that hes gonna continue driving his Blazer. So to me, it sounds like he's a bit frugal with spending, which is why this situation confuses me even more.

David, you have a squeaky clean image. I see United Way commercials every year in the league. Endorsement deals.

What the problem is man?

[HairOnFire]

Well...just to add more fuel to the fire...Barron at 19 has a deal that tops out at $11 million...oh boy...

Like I've said from day one, a slotting argument that ignores the impact of bonuses and incentive triggers won't help you understand what's going on, and in the case of the Bengals, it certainly won't get you a signed deal. The devil, if he exists at all, is in the details.

Last, I haven't blamed Pollack for this holdout and I'm not going to change my tune just because Marvin delivered a broadside. Frankly, Joisey's post does a great job of pointing out how much wiggle room is available as long as the agent is willing to bet on his client producing the way his draft position implies he should. Get creative if you have to, but you know going in that the Bengals are going to demand incentive triggers that actually mean something.

[JohnsonX5]

So with Ronnie Brown signing today with the Dolphins, I believe that leaves Benson, Pacman, and a guy whose name rhymes with bullock as the only unsigned first rounders. If Pacman wasn't such a retard, there is no doubt he would be signed leaving only Pollack and Benson. This is just getting beyond ridiculous. If Benson signs before Pollack does, Pollack will, in my mind, be the last guy in the entire draft to sign (I can't really count Pacman because he's screwed things up so badly). It's just crazy to think that the seventeenth overall pick could be the last guy in the entire draft to sign. This doesn't normally happen, does it? Come on Pollack, it's time to sign.

[DawgNeil]

Something needed to be said, this is beyond ridiculous for a 17th over-all pick to be holding out at this point.

I didn't think Pollack was the type who was all about the $, thought he was a football player, a humble Christian Mr. good guy type.

So much for that, no one's making him retain his agents.

Bring back Hardy!!!

As someone who has been around Pollack, he isn't.

I have no idea what is going on with his agent but David is maybe the last person in my life that I would ever think cares about a dollar here or there.

His parents aren't poor.

I have no idea what Condon is doing to him.

[BamaBengal]

Count me as one of the people who was so high on the Bengals drafting a high motor, good character guy who was supposed to be a total football animal - until we found out he'll let his agents jerk him around to the point he'll be lucky to be able to make the transition to OLB and start before half the season is over. If this whole thing is over the infamous "Carl Pickens Clause" then Pollack should have run his agents out of town on a rail a long time ago. He's been slotted for a week, it really should be a no-brainer. I'm waaay frustrated. We really need some headhunters and impact players on defense so we can get over the hump and into the playoffs. Pollack could have fit that bill. He won't, at least not the first half, or maybe at all, this year. What a waste.

[IckeyShuffle]

So true, Shula...

Most people who call themselves "christians" are more canniving, greedy, and in general just flawed as people who don't.

I know this is a general statement and it doesn't apply to many, many people, but guys who wear there "christianity" on their sleeve or as a part of the political platform, watch out for these guys.

This probably seems strange from a man of the cloth (little chuckle there), but seeing as many "christians" as anyone, I have had this proved to me more times than I can count.

For Pollack's next act...televangelist (the professional wrestlers of Christendom)

[The Big Orange]

Ickey Shuffle,

Excellent to see another reverend who doesn't take themselves so seriously...

Should I be unable to deliver the week's sermon's, I know whom I can count on.

In general I like to keep serious God-talk out of here...people don't come here to be preached at. Once in a while we will get a self-righteous condemning type in and he in generally pisses everybody off and Billy embaresses him badly (which I enjoy very much) and they are left cowering in their corner like a whipped puppy dog.

It makes for a good days entertainment.

[alleycat]

David is maybe the last person in my life that I would ever think cares about a dollar here or there.

His parents aren't poor.

I don't follow the logic. In my universe, the poorer you are the happier you are to take 10 Million dollars. In my experience, it's usually the people who don't have to "care about a dollar here or there" who actually do most of the caring (and fighting, and suing, and, in this case, holding out!).

[schweinhart]

So with Ronnie Brown signing today with the Dolphins, I believe that leaves Benson, Pacman, and a guy whose name rhymes with bullock as the only unsigned first rounders. If Pacman wasn't such a retard, there is no doubt he would be signed leaving only Pollack and Benson. This is just getting beyond ridiculous. If Benson signs before Pollack does, Pollack will, in my mind, be the last guy in the entire draft to sign (I can't really count Pacman because he's screwed things up so badly). It's just crazy to think that the seventeenth overall pick could be the last guy in the entire draft to sign. This doesn't normally happen, does it? Come on Pollack, it's time to sign.

Folks might have guessed Benson and the Bears would be at an impasse over the #4 money because of Rivers from last year.

Likewise, PacMan is facing all kinds of conditions because he is a stupid punk who didn't have the sense to stay out of legal problems since the draft. So the impasse there can't be altogether surprising.

But, Pollack....at #17.

No one would've thunk that on draft day or even a month ago.

Whatever the rub ultimately is, I can't help but to think that if there's a smell everybody smells and gradually everybody but one person leaves and the smell stills smells....why then the smeller is the feller.

I just can't decide whether the feller is Pollack (and his agent entourage) or Mike Brown (and his clan).

Then again, it's proly both.

[derekshank]

I like how we read a quote from Marvin Lewis and are immediately swayed that Pollack is an ass, and shouldn't be allowed to play football. It's not as if ML is exactly an impartial observer here. Last I looked, he works for Mike Brown, not David Pollack, so what kinds of things did you expect him to say?

Do I think Pollack should be in camp by now? Yes. He is quickly losing his leverage, and the best deal is probably on the table as we speak.

But to act like we know the situation and all the circumstances, concluding that Pollack is completely at fault here seems assinine to me. I reserve judgement as to who is at fault (if there is anyone at "fault"), until we have the correct info.

The numbers that are thrown at us by random websites are different almost everyday. If you'll notice my routine practice, I defend Pollack on anti-Pollack threads, and defend Brown on anti-Brown threads, simply because we don't know what is happening.

At this point the team is able to push Pollack around, because no one else is allowed to make him an offer. He and his agents are probably simply asking the question, "why should we take less than we think we deserve because it was Cincinnati who drafted us at #17, and not Minnesota at #18, or any other team?"

Do I think Pollack is guilty of allowing this to drag out too long, effectively ruining his only leverage? Yes. In fact, at this point, I am pulling for the Bengals to sign him below his worth, because I think we should make this hold-out count for something... but that in no way causes me to believe that one side is at fault while the other is innocent. My guess is both sides share a large portion of the blame. Get over it, it's the way the system works.

In a perfect world, football stadiums would grow naturally in the wild, players would compete for free, and the good Lord would cause season tickets to fall from the sky like manna. But in the world we have, players care about getting respect, and fair market deals, and owners don't want to over-pay for them, which results in hold-outs.

An imperfect world results in unhappy situations, which cause innocent bystanders like us to get very angry... but life sucks. Sept. 11th is right around the corner, and this will all be forgotten.

[HairOnFire]

I like how we read a quote from Marvin Lewis and are immediately swayed that Pollack is an ass, and shouldn't be allowed to play football. It's not as if ML is exactly an impartial observer here. Last I looked, he works for Mike Brown, not David Pollack, so what kinds of things did you expect him to say?

Do I think Pollack should be in camp by now? Yes. He is quickly losing his leverage, and the best deal is probably on the table as we speak.

But to act like we know the situation and all the circumstances, concluding that Pollack is completely at fault here seems assinine to me. I reserve judgement as to who is at fault (if there is anyone at "fault"), until we have the correct info.

The numbers that are thrown at us by random websites are different almost everyday. If you'll notice my routine practice, I defend Pollack on anti-Pollack threads, and defend Brown on anti-Brown threads, simply because we don't know what is happening.

At this point the team is able to push Pollack around, because no one else is allowed to make him an offer. He and his agents are probably simply asking the question, "why should we take less than we think we deserve because it was Cincinnati who drafted us at #17, and not Minnesota at #18, or any other team?"

Do I think Pollack is guilty of allowing this to drag out too long, effectively ruining his only leverage? Yes. In fact, at this point, I am pulling for the Bengals to sign him below his worth, because I think we should make this hold-out count for something... but that in no way causes me to believe that one side is at fault while the other is innocent. My guess is both sides share a large portion of the blame. Get over it, it's the way the system works.

In a perfect world, football stadiums would grow naturally in the wild, players would compete for free, and the good Lord would cause season tickets to fall from the sky like manna. But in the world we have, players care about getting respect, and fair market deals, and owners don't want to over-pay for them, which results in hold-outs.

An imperfect world results in unhappy situations, which cause innocent bystanders like us to get very angry... but life sucks. Sept. 11th is right around the corner, and this will all be forgotten.

First, we'll never get all of the information needed, but it's unrealistic to think fans won't take sides based upon what little we do know OR what we think we know.

Second, there's a track record to consider here and it allows people to fill in the blanks however they see fit. This leads some to bash Mike Brown at will while others like myself are more inclined to point a finger at agents. I admit doing this due to having watched past holdout battles and recalling what the major skirmishes were said to be fought over.

Third, IMHO we have been getting enough dribs and drabs of information to question whether the current lack of contract agreement is due to an agent making unreasonable demands that border on simple stupidity. Examples include....

Refusal to have a player like Pollack sign the loyalty clause. Reluctance to agree to linking a portion of the bonus to attendance of the off-season workout program. Ridiculous concerns over whether Pollack will be cut after his rookie season...preventing him from collecting a roster bonus. And last but not least, refusal to agree to reasonable performance based incentive triggers.

Bottom Line: I didn't pick sides for weeks. I kept my cool like any grey bearded Bengal fan has learned to do over the years. But I've got my limits and it's afir to say that they were surpassed a week ago. So I picked a side.

[Semper_Fi_Dawg]

Again, I am going to defend Pollack on this. If anyone watched the Phily-Steelers game last night they saw Chris Mortensen and what he had to say about the situation. I have always found Chris unbiased and very well informed. Well what did he say............ In essence he said that while the money was agreed upon ,there were several stipulations in the contract that were holding things up. It seems that the guaranteed money isn"t exactly guaranteed in that the way it is written now, if they wanted to cut DP after one year that the guaranteed money would default to a fraction. Translation........If DP gets hurt there is no guaranteed money. Also, There seems to be this little stipulation that he can be fined 100,000 per day for violation of seemingly ambigious team rules. And this fine is solely at the discretion of management. Now I ask you, would you agree to this. It was evident that Chris Mortensen thought that these stipulations were bogus. So going back to my original statement. From everything I know about DP from following him for the last 3 years at UGA, it is not in his nature to be anti-team nor money hungry. Now let's ask what is the nature of the management. Let's see, have they had problems in the past signing their first round pics? Yes. So who do you think is most probable to be at fault? Yet almost everyone on this board has went anti-Pollack based entirely upon emotion. Let me tell you something friends, I would bet everything I own that there isn't one person in the world that wants to see him on the field moreso than he, himself does. Any takers? So why isn't he there? Ask management and get off his a$$.