Pollack signs today?

[HoosierCat]

Every post has mentioned both Pollack and the Bengals, but there's a third substantial player in this. Pollacks agent! Has anyone considered he may be the fly in the ointment?

I'm sure Pollack's agent is advising him to cool his jets. Right now, at least financially, the pressure is on Cincy. Spears is signed at $9.3 million at 20, and 19 Barron and 18 James are unsigned. Chances are very good that if one of them signs, it will be for $9.5 million or more, which immediately pushes the floor of Pollack's slot up.

[Kirkendall]

While I might admit that BOTH sides are at fault -- the Bengals track record shows me that they are definitely at fault -- again.

I see your point and I completely understand that thought process. I think both sides could give just an inch so this can all be behind us and talk about how many times we stuff the oppositions on 3rd and 1.

[Kirkendall]

Every post has mentioned both Pollack and the Bengals, but there's a third substantial player in this. Pollacks agent! Has anyone considered he may be the fly in the ointment?

I'm sure Pollack's agent is advising him to cool his jets. Right now, at least financially, the pressure is on Cincy. Spears is signed at $9.3 million at 20, and 19 Barron and 18 James are unsigned. Chances are very good that if one of them signs, it will be for $9.5 million or more, which immediately pushes the floor of Pollack's slot up.

They, the NFL, needs to restructure their NFL rookie payscale. First pick gets a % of that season's official salary cap #. The second pick is a lesser percentage, so forth and so on. Or all first round picks get a set number. All second round picks gets a second number. I'm not sure about rewarding rookies based on draft position for the simple fact most teams draft on need, not how a great a college career a player had (or "potential" career in the NFL)

Not sure if that's a good system or not, but it would definitely avoid rookie holdouts and also avoid the total distain for a rookie the area is starting to have -- listen to some Cincy sports radio. Some fans are much more upset than we (bengalszone) are....

[HoosierCat]

I've been a fan of having standardized rookie contracts for about ever, for exactly the reasons like we always seem to see around here. There's been some talk of including a rookie pay scale in the next CBA. The veterans certainly like the idea because it frees up more $$$ for them. But the agents hate it, for obvious reasons.

[Kirkendall]

I've been a fan of having standardized rookie contracts for about ever, for exactly the reasons like we always seem to see around here. There's been some talk of including a rookie pay scale in the next CBA. The veterans certainly like the idea because it frees up more $$$ for them. But the agents hate it, for obvious reasons.

Think it could cause a "conflict of interest" -- bitch-slapping each other via media -- especially with the player's union? I don't see Tags going that route for the simple fact to avoid a confrontation with a union that's had sharp comments the past few months.

What do you think? Could this entry, of a standard for rookies, contribute to the overall holdout/lockout that could happen as threatened (without actually saying it) by Gene Upshaw?

[HairOnFire]

Every post has mentioned both Pollack and the Bengals, but there's a third substantial player in this. Pollacks agent! Has anyone considered he may be the fly in the ointment?

I mentioned Camp Pollack for a reason. It's a client and his agent working in tandem towards a common goal, but from vastly different positions. Those who are blaming Pollack, like the Spanish peanut, do so without considering that as a player he has no expertise in contract matters and is well served letting more experienced parties fight this battle. Those who would blame the agent are armed with the knowledge that while he has the legal knowledge the player lacks the agent can play an extreme version of hardball without assuming much risk.

[schweinhart]

My own, completely speculative, take is this: The "slot" for Pollack has some wiggle room in it. On the high end of the slot, you could have a "fair" deal that totalled around $10 million, with maybe $7.1 million or so guaranteed. On the low end, you could have a deal that had $6.5 million guaranteed and be worth $9.5 million or so total. The Bengals want a "lesser" deal, in other words, one closer to the low end of the slot, while Pollack & Co. want one at the high end.

Here's the $5.92 mill in guaranteed money again, Joisey. This time today from the Enquirer: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...SPT02/508070381

POLLACK UPDATE: The holdout of first-round draft pick David Pollack went into its 10th day Saturday. Bengals officials said there were no developments in negotiations.

Pollack is the No. 17 overall pick. No. 16, defensive tackle Travis Johnson of Houston, is being paid $10.2 million over five years, and $5.92 million of it is guaranteed.

Pollack's agents, Ken Kremer and Tom Condon of IMG, are said to be asking for more than Johnson received.

No mention that Marcus Spears at #20 has more guaranteed money than #16?

Something's rotten in Cincinnati and it smells a lot like the Brown Clan.

[NJ29]

I don't blame this situation on Pollack or his agent at all. I think that this problem is 100% on the Bengals. DP is not asking for an outrageous amount of money. I think this is the organizations fault for lowballing him.

[HoosierCat]

Here's the $5.92 mill in guaranteed money again, Joisey. This time today from the Enquirer:

Yup. And here's the explanation from sportsline. (Emphasis added.)

Johnson receives $5.92 million guaranteed. He also gets a roster bonus of $1.06 million next week. His base salaries are $230,000, $310,000, $385,000, $707,500 and $1.03 million.

So yeah, *technically* he only got $5.92 million guaranteed...but short of falling over dead his first week in camp, he was going to get another million+ for sure. That effectively puts his guaranted coin at $7 million right there (and some sources, like Lenny at espn put it as high as $7.77 million.)

I agree, something stinks here...and it smells Brown...

[bengals7833]

i dont blame pollack at all. the thing you have look at is other than palmer this s**t happens every year. katie and troy blackburn have no business having the control they have. every year this s**t happens.

[derekshank]

I don't know who to blame... you can't ever really trust any of the information you get, because the front office always makes it seem like they offered him the world, and the agent always makes it seem like it was an insult. We really don't have any concrete info. The numbers that are released to us are always shaded, and it's impossible for us to get the whole story.

My advice for Bengals fans...

Since we aren't involved in the negotiations, the only thing that is left for us to do is move on. By the sounds of it we will be fine without him, at least for the short term. So lets ride the Landon Johnson wagon.

When Pollack gets in, he gets in, and eventually he will be good, and will be starting. but I'm tired of all this talk that is essentially a more distinguished version of a he said/he said debate.

As fans the only thing we can do is hope he gets in soon, but mostly just pull for the Bengals to succeed. With or without him, I want W's. So if LJ is the answer until DP gets the position down, I'm fine with that, and I think all of us should be.

Pollack isn't holding the team for ransom. he's trying to use what leverage he might have. Knowing that injuries happen, and he might not have any leverage on his next deal, he's doing what he has to do. As for me, I'm letting him, and moving on for the time being.

[HoosierCat]

Well, the big question is, what is Pollack asking for in terms of guaranteed money?

Just to finish off Johnson's deal, in addition to what sportsline had to say, the Houston Chronicle adds the deal also has a one-time performance incentive of $525k, based on playing time, that brings its total up to the reported $10.2 million. Without that, it's about a $9.65 million contract. That helps explain the reported agreement of the Bengals and Pollack over a deal worth $9.5 million total, which at first glance seems a big drop from $10.2 million.

So the question is...what are Pollack's demands on the guaranteed front? Johnson's guaranteed money, plus the all-but-guaranteed roster bonus, total just a fraction under $7 million. If he's asking for less than that, and the Bengals are just trying to avoid considering the roster bonus as guaranteed and push him under the $5.92 million figure, then the blame falls on a cheap-arsed front office.

On the other hand, assuming the $9.5 million total report is accurate, I could see Pollack's side making the argument that in return for taking a smaller potential contract they want a bigger chunk of guaranteed money, say $7 million to $7.2 million. In that case, Pollack's side has to take its share of blame, if only because they had to know the Bengals would dig in their heels at such a notion.

[Kirkendall]

I can't believe some of us are blaming the Bengals again. It's too convenient to blame the Brown family.

because the front office always makes it seem like they offered him the world

In all fairness, the team doesn't comment on contract negotiations and most information we hear are from agents with an assortment of unqualified articles on other team's signings -- which routinely puts the team in villan mode.

[dave]

The main problem I have with Pollack in this process is that he's risking losing his starting job. Players want to play and with every practice that DP misses, he increases the risk of losing his job. Granted, he'll probably have it back by mid-season at the latest -- especially with the money he'll be making -- but stranger things have happened. Take a decent offer, claim your starting job, and the rest will take care of itself. Haggling over cash -- even if it's a million or so -- isn't worth risking it.

People want to blame Bengals mgmt, but the agents are the ones who have to go to next year's recruits and say "look at how much I got this guy in this slot." I suspect they're just as much, if not more, to blame.

[Irish Bengal]

The main problem I have with Pollack in this process is that he's risking losing his starting job. Players want to play and with every practice that DP misses, he increases the risk of losing his job. Granted, he'll probably have it back by mid-season at the latest -- especially with the money he'll be making -- but stranger things have happened. Take a decent offer, claim your starting job, and the rest will take care of itself. Haggling over cash -- even if it's a million or so -- isn't worth risking it.

People want to blame Bengals mgmt, but the agents are the ones who have to go to next year's recruits and say "look at how much I got this guy in this slot." I suspect they're just as much, if not more, to blame.

Tru That !

[derekshank]

In all fairness, the team doesn't comment on contract negotiations and most information we hear are from agents with an assortment of unqualified articles on other team's signings -- which routinely puts the team in villan mode.

Fair enough Kirk.... my only point was that the only information we have on the contract is mostly propaganda, (which you seem to agree with) and therefore our debates on who the villain is here is similar to debating between the two opinions of the Bush administration and Michael Moore.

Neither side is really going to be giving a fair impression of what the deal is, so we're in the dark. That being the case, let's move on.

[BengalszoneBilly]

The main problem I have with Pollack in this process is that he's risking losing his starting job.

I doubt that seriously. If he does miss any starts, it will be in the pre-season. BFD. Marvin and the boy's are just a tad bit sold on this guy's abilities.

[BengalszoneBilly]

the thing you have look at is other than palmer this s**t happens every year.

So in your opinion, why was the Carson Palmer deal any different? Did his agent figure since the Bengals drafted him #1 overall, that was the "Kiss of Death" for him anyway. They might as well accept their first offer so he can get to helping his other clients that won't be NFL busts?

Was it that the Brown family felt extra "rich" that day, and offered him a far juicier amount than normal?

Or was it Carson Palmer not allowing his agent to hold him out for more money? (Like it doesn't have a butt-load of cash in it as it is! )

[bengalsLB]

i hate pollack his agent and the bengals front-office so much right now

[BengalszoneBilly]

i hate pollack

I doubt it.

i hate his agent and the bengals front-office so much right now

I don't doubt it.

[kingwilly]

All the talk going on over DP is just hot air. Who's fault, who is right, who is wrong...

Here are the givens:

The Bengals are cheap. never a doubt.

The agents are scum. to the detriment of their clients, they f the system up and treat the Bengals organization with the respect of a third-world landscape laborer.

The player is the bitch. "YEs, agent" and "Yes, coach" are about all he know at this point. It happens again and again, players saying they regret not getting to camp. time to stepup and be a man.

The system is antequated, but is all we have. With the guaranteed money in the NBA and MLB, the NFL is the poor players league but by necessity, since a team has about 55-60 on payroll. By comparison, my buddy is a pro cyclist and rode on US Postal for Lance Armstrong. Helped him win TdF 5 and 6, placed 9th this year and still is about $500k below the avg salary in the mlb (for perspective). The NFL and its slotting system for drafted players is the most arbitrary, worthless sytem known to pro sports. It exists solely to either boost the ego's of agents who have a stronghold over clients and punish teams who traditionally have shallow pockets.

For DP, he must break Tom Condon's nose and sign for just a hair above the offer. Then, get to camp and cram like he did for GA mid-terms (right) in learning Bres's D. Then get on the field and play catch up and hope He can win a start by game 3.

[andybren]

It seems to me that, at this point, the only thing that will move things forward is the prospect of the team playing real (even preseason) games without their top pick. Personally, I think the Brown family has made their last best offer, and barring some "split the difference" sort of gesture, won't be back to the table. And Pollack's side won't capitulate until he sees the team is truly moving on without him. My guess is that will happen between preseason games 2 and 3.

So the rest of us bystanders might as well get used to the idea that Pollack won't sign in time to get ready for the regular season and should be treated as any other player who can't help us win games. Nobody can have any reasonable expectation of when he'll be able to contribute, might as well chalk it up another roster spot that can't be used elsewhere.

[Kazkal]

SBJ said that Pollack’s agents, Tom Condon and Ken Kremer, have had 13 first-round holdouts since 1995. That ties them with Eugene Parker and Roosevelt Barnes, the agents that represented Perry last season in his 17-event holdout.

[HoosierCat]

The rumormill spits out another tidbit, this one from pfw's most recent whispers column...not much we didn't already know...

We’re hearing there is a feeling among some in league circles that the Bengals’ inability to strike a deal with rookie SLB David Pollack earlier in training camp doesn’t reflect particularly well on the team. Pollack remained unsigned as of Aug. 7. We’re hearing the dispute is about guaranteed money and that the sides aren’t that far apart.

[HairOnFire]

Well, after reading the morning updates I see they've now moved into the "we're not even bothering to talk" phase.

Pretty predictable I guess. In fact, in another thread I did just that.

Now lets see how long the two sides play the waiting game by refusing to talk.

If you guys are in a betting mood I say somebody blinks and picks up the phone....on Thursday.