Pollack signs today?

[Spain]

-well no Pollak so curse the poster( knife in the back )and may nasty things happen to you!

[GROIIIDayton]

I say forget about Pollack. I hope the Bengals don't offer him anything more then the deal they have. I wouldn't even be mad if they started taking guaranteed money out of the contract for each day he misses.

[Spain]

So the anti Davey slowly creeps out. This guy is arguing about more money than we will ever dream of and he bitches, so kiss our favourite playa staus goodbye this aint Georgia davey!

[KEEPSHOVELING]

It don't matter if Polleck is there today or 5 days from now, his job is going to be (kill the qb) and will do it well. So let the man get his money since after all it is a job he is taking even if we would like to think we would do it for free. If he's not in camp by the first pre season game I'll be disappointed. GO BENGALS!!!!! :player: :player: :player:

[HoosierCat]

I say forget about Pollack. I hope the Bengals don't offer him anything more then the deal they have. I wouldn't even be mad if they started taking guaranteed money out of the contract for each day he misses.

To quote Sgt. Hulka: "Lighten up, Francis."

Pollack will be fine. He'll get here when he gets here and start contributing when he starts contributing. Until that time -- and I doubt it will be particularly lengthy -- I have complete faith in Landon Johnson's ability to hold down the SSLB spot.

Frankly, I'd almost rather have Landon start the season at SSLB and Pollack on spot duty as a situational pass rusher, even if Pollack signs five minutes from now. The idea of having 2 rookie LBs out there starting at the same time has never been very attractive to me. So this holdout may be a blessing in disguise.

[Jonboat]

You would think if he wanted to get into camp so bad he would've told his freaking agents not to leave town until a deal is done !!! GO BENGALS!!! Jonboat

[Spain]

He has figured out a way to make us fans love him! He wants to argue for pennies screw him! Whats his trade value?( I know everyones laughing now)

[Kazkal]

Spain mybe it could be the front office? either stfu or get some facts.

[Stripes]

He has figured out a way to make us fans love him! He wants to argue for pennies screw him! Whats his trade value?( I know everyones laughing now)

I'm not laughing, but I did give a few blinks of confusion. The man hasn't even missed a full week yet, and already I'm seeing the word "trade." Spain, gotta love your enthusiasm, but wow.

[The Big Orange]

"The only thing they've sent to us is (a proposal) that's superior to the deals ahead of us," Blackburn said of Pollack's agents. "All's quiet. Nothing is happening, and we don't anticipate anything happening in the near future."

This is from Dayton Daily News

I can't stand the Poston brothers...Ken Kemel is the main agent, but on there recent sit down, the Poston guy from IMG was with him...at least Rosenhaus' guys are in camp...this guy is the king of the hold out.

If they don't give him a propossal at least $2-300,000 below #16, I say they let him rot on the bench. I know it's just been a week, but I'm with Katie on this one. Bengals would be a laughing stock if they signed him higher than the 16...it would say, we've gotta pay guys more to come here...I thought we were done with that crap...good job, Katie.

[HoosierCat]

good job, Katie.

I wouldn't give Katie too many pats on the back. "The only thing they've sent to us..."? What do you mean, sent to you? Would that be the initial proposal from weeks ago before the slots were established? What about the discussions in G-town two days ago, katie?

<insert sounds of crickets chirping here>

Somehow, Kremer went to Seattle yesterday and got the deal done for their No. 1 pick (who's held out for 5 days). Didn't seem to be a big, outsized deal.

I also find it notable that the same DDN story claims the Bengals say they have $9.5 million budgeted for Pollack. Hmmmm. Spears at 20 got a bit over $9.3 million, and Johnson right ahead of Pollack got $10.2 million. That would slot Pollack in closer to $9.9 - 10 million total. Hobson hinted after the Travis Johnson signing that this year's first round was pricier than the Bengals had planned. I wonder if Pollack's side isn't arguing for more guaranteed money in return for taking a deal that, overall, is a bit lower than the slot would dictate?

[jjakq27]

The thing that pisses me off is that the guy has missed 10 of 22(?) practices. Kevin Greene has been in camp to help the linebackers. The Bengals have cut the incumbent starter from last year and annointed this guy to take his place. Yet here we are waiting and wasting time becasue they can't seem to get him in here. Don't wait until the day before camp opens to make a suitable offer. I had hoped those days were over.

I am usually anti-agent but in this case I am blaming the team. If he is that valuable to the team and they conceded to the five-year deal, then what else do the Bengals want. Get this guy in here now.

I would hate to have the bitterness linger into Pollack's next contract negotiation.....

[HoosierCat]

I took a quick look at the Minny and St. Looie papers for any news on James and Barron. It appears Barron is waiting on James who is waiting on Pollack..so we might be here a while. This note in a story about Barron's holdout caught my eye:

For example, Zygmunt said the contract of one pick in the middle of the first round this year is 24 pages in length. Normally, such contracts are five or six pages, but a variety of guarantees, option years, escalators, incentives, and roster bonuses have complicated matters this year.

Knowing the Bengals, I'm sure that isn't helping matters. Contractual "creativity" always sets the front office's collective teeth on edge.

Whole story here for anyone who cares:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/st...BF?OpenDocument

[membengal]

Deep breaths people.

It is what it is.

He will be here when he is here.

[TippCityRick]

Big O, I saw the same thing this morning. However Joisey, you got a point. I didn't do the math (and hell, I'm a CPA. You'd thought I'd have started there!!), but if the Bengals have DP slotted at 9.5m then they are in fact underpaying. His package should be nearer to 9.8-9.9 like you said. Should be a simple matter of playtime escalators, but if there is a "creative" contract out there, I know that throws everything into chaos in Bengaland.

[schweinhart]

The thing that pisses me off is that the guy has missed 10 of 22(?) practices. Kevin Greene has been in camp to help the linebackers. The Bengals have cut the incumbent starter from last year and annointed this guy to take his place. Yet here we are waiting and wasting time becasue they can't seem to get him in here. Don't wait until the day before camp opens to make a suitable offer. I had hoped those days were over.

It is somewhat frustrating to see Pollack miss opportunites to better prepare for the season.

But at the same time, he seems like he's already wired as it is and having him show up late should make him even more wired IMO, which should add enough urgency to the situation to make him hyper-focused.

BTW, it do find it interesting that Spears at 20 got more guaranteed money ($6.7 mill) than Travis Johnson at 16 ($5.92 million).

Also, the Brown Clan say they've budgeted $9.5 mill (I mean really, please) but no one's shown that I have seen exactly where the rookie pool cap is at coming into the Pollack signing. I more interested in Pollack's cap hits this and next year than the overall contract amount.

[HoosierCat]

BTW, it do find it interesting that Spears at 20 got more guaranteed money ($6.7 mill) than Travis Johnson at 16 ($5.92 million).

I think that Johnson number is low. All the other citations I've seen put his guaranteed dough at something like $7.5 million (for example: http://www.startribune.com/stories/510/5539981.html ). As you can see from that link, that lines right up with everyone else.

I wonder if that $5.9 million figure came from the Bengals? Perhaps the Johnson deal is the 24-pager that Minny owner Ziggy Wilf was referring to, and the Bengals are interpreting something differently than the rest of the league?

[Kirkendall]

On Lance's site:

Trent Dilfer was once in Braylon Edwards' shoes.

Dilfer was the sixth overall pick for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 1994 when he held out for 12 days. The decision paid off for him as he signed a reported eight-year deal worth $29.6 million after incentives.

Dilfer only played six years in Tampa and missed out on some of those incentives with poor play on the field, but at the time he signed the richest contract in his entire draft class.

"It was a wonderful decision financially and a horrible decision football wise," Dilfer said. "I'm being completely honest with that, if I had to go back and do it all over again I would have sacrificed the $2 million extra dollars to be a better player the first couple of years.

"But at the time, I was convinced that the financial and business part was more than the football part, and 11 years later I regret that decision."

Dilfer said it took him two seasons to recover from his holdout.

Yes, yes, yes, I know; it's Trent Dilfer. But an interesting player perspective nonetheless.

[bengalboomer7]

I'm with Schweiney, does anyone have some rookie pool numbers. And I don't fault the Bengals front office in this one either. They have some seroius issues coming up in the next two years with resigning vets and the oline. Why are we bad mouthing them when they are trying to establish a plan for the cap so that they'll be able to afford these guys. No one mentions that Pollacks cap hit will affect a Levi Jones, Wilie Anderson, Eric Steinbach, Justin Smith, and Tory James extension. How would you guys feel if the cap hit Pollack causes keeps us from signing these guys. I think the Bengals are doing this right. Now as far as contract creativity goes, that's not the Bengals. But I applaud them for having a specific plan for the cap, not just for this year but for the future also. The only reason we are giving the Bengasl so much flak for this is because of the many ways they've fumbled this up in the past, and I can't blame anyone for that.

I would love to see someone dig up an old reference to the Bengals trying to keep cap space free for the future so they can sign established vets that WANT to be here. One way or another, this will get done.

[HoosierCat]

No one mentions that Pollacks cap hit will affect a Levi Jones, Wilie Anderson, Eric Steinbach, Justin Smith, and Tory James extension.  How would you guys feel if the cap hit Pollack causes keeps us from signing these guys.

Well, if reports that all that's at issue is a few 100k are true, I have a real hard time believing that that amount will seriously impact our ability to re-sign anyone.

As for the aforementioned players, I think it's likely that one of the two tackles (Willie or Levi) will be let go when their contract is up. With both likely to demand Ogden-level coin and Stacy Andrews coming along "fine" per Paul Alexander...

Steinbach, assuming he returns to form, we certainly keep.

Smith & James? Despite making the Pro Bowl, James is slowing down. If O'Neal continues his comeback and Ratliff blossoms as hoped, he could be let go, too. Smith I think they keep, especially if the move to the other side pays off.

[Kirkendall]

As for the aforementioned players, I think it's likely that one of the two tackles (Willie or Levi) will be let go when their contract is up.

You mean after Willie signs his extension? (it'll happen)

future so they can sign established vets that WANT to be here.

Like Willie?

[HoosierCat]

You mean after Willie signs his extension? (it'll happen)

I dunno. I'm not ruling it out by any means, and would love to see it happen. But the Bengals have been very noncommital about the extension. I think they want to see a season without knee problems. Dunno if that will happen.

[Kirkendall]

Yea, I don't know either and from the sounds of it, Willie is asking for alot -- hopefully they agree to terms.

[schweinhart]

BTW, it do find it interesting that Spears at 20 got more guaranteed money ($6.7 mill) than Travis Johnson at 16 ($5.92 million).

I think that Johnson number is low. All the other citations I've seen put his guaranteed dough at something like $7.5 million (for example: http://www.startribune.com/stories/510/5539981.html ). As you can see from that link, that lines right up with everyone else.

I wonder if that $5.9 million figure came from the Bengals? Perhaps the Johnson deal is the 24-pager that Minny owner Ziggy Wilf was referring to, and the Bengals are interpreting something differently than the rest of the league?

The higher # for Johnson must be right. The lower one comes from Goheen. http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar.../508030308/1022

Both players agreed to five-year deals. Derrick Johnson's contract is reportedly worth $10.5 million with guarantees of $7.8 million, while Travis Johnson's deal is for $10.2 million with guarantees of $5.92 million.

I've not seen yet how 2007 is factoring into the rook signings this year, other than to say it's creating lengthier contract w/ more provisions because of 5-yr deals instead of 7 void to 6.

I can see an owner like Jerry Jones (but really any owner willing to spend the coin) lumping as much as possible into 2007 in the way of option bonuses. If they decide to cut a player w/ a 6-figure option bonus in 2007, yes, the money would be guaranteed but there'd be no cap hit to worry if the CBA impasse holds up.

As for the other cap implications of the Bengals signings, but especially Pollack, and their influence on contract extensions, those won't amount to enough to break deals but the total should help with lowering the 2006 cap enough to maybe cover half of what it might otherwise cost extra in 2005 vs. cap to extend Steinbach.

Well, if reports that all that's at issue is a few 100k are true, I have a real hard time believing that that amount will seriously impact our ability to re-sign anyone.

Bottom line, proly nothing more than the difference between keeping an RFA rather than an undrafted rookie in a backup slot. But still more appealing than just the seeming refusal by the Brown Clan to meet what the market has dictated for #17.

[HoosierCat]

I can see an owner like Jerry Jones (but really any owner willing to spend the coin) lumping as much as possible into 2007 in the way of option bonuses. If they decide to cut a player w/ a 6-figure option bonus in 2007, yes, the money would be guaranteed but there'd be no cap hit to worry if the CBA impasse holds up.

Yeah, I see what you mean; the idea of using 2007 as a sort of "get out of cap jail free card" has been suggested by a lot of NFL observers, and I'm sure there are teams (the Deadskins? ) salivating over the possibility. And since Mikey is on record -- in a story in the Enquirer a few weeks back -- saying that he thinks some arrangement on a new CBA will be reached, I can see him resisting if a proposed deal followed some other team's attempt to dump a lot of cash into '07.

Still...that doesn't seem to be the problem in Pollack's case. His own comments about it being specifically the signing bonus, along with other reports that the length and total value are settled, suggests it's specifically an issue with the up-front coin that will be divvied up equally (in terms of the cap hit) over the life of the deal.

Oh, well. He'll sign when he signs, I suppose.