Bengals' Nemesis: Sucky Teams

[HoosierCat]

If you look back on the two years of the Marvin era, one thing leaps out clearly: the thing that separates the Bengals from the playoffs is their inability to consistently beat bad teams. Just looking at our key division rivals, in the last two seasons:

Baltimore

vs. teams that finished 6-10 or worse: 11-3 (.786)

vs. teams that finished 7-9 or better: 8-10

Pittsburgh

6-10 -: 10-2 (.833)

7-9 +: 11-9

Cincy

6-10 -: 8-7 (.533)

7-9+: 8-9

We're all .500-ish against "real" opposition, but the Ravens and Steelers rarely drop a game to a bad team. Even in their 6-10 2003 season the Steelers were still 3-2 against teams that finished 6-10 or worse.

It does apear to be improving. We went from 4-5 against the 6-10 or worse crowd in 2003 to 4-2 in 2004. The question for this season, it seems, isn't, can we beat Indy/Baltimore/Pitt, etc, but rather can we beat Tennessee, Cleveland and Chicago...

[CBin2k7]

On any Sunday, any team can beat you, especially when you are on the road.

at Chicago, at Tenn, at Detroit even at Cleveland. Those are not easy games.

[Kazkal]

ya when a fan chucks a bottle @ carson and knocks him out it would be kinda hard to win after that /crys

[Michigan Bengal]

On any Sunday, any team can beat you, especially when you are on the road.

at Chicago, at Tenn, at Detroit even at Cleveland. Those are not easy games.

I agree. Even *gak* Cleveland can be tough at home in the snow.

[Who?]

ya when a fan chucks a bottle @ carson and knocks him out it would be kinda hard to win after that /crys

I saw that one coming, always throwing out the cheap shots Kazzy.

[Kazkal]

Hey! atleast cheap shots don't hurt as much as a bottle does

[HoosierCat]

On any Sunday, any team can beat you, especially when you are on the road. 

at Chicago, at Tenn, at Detroit even at Cleveland.  Those are not easy games.

I agree. Even *gak* Cleveland can be tough at home in the snow.

No one said they weren't tough games. The point is this: top-tier teams still win them virtually all the time.

Yes, they drop 1 or 2, proving the "every given Sunday" rule. Trouble with the Bengals has been their tendency to drop 3 or 4 or 5. In 2003, we were actually worse against bad teams, winning 4 of 9 vs. teams that finished 6-10 or worse, and 4 of 7 against teams that were 7-9 or better.

I don't know why this is. It drives me nuts sometimes the way the Bengals play up and down to the level of the competition. But I do know that we won't make the playoffs if it doesn't stop.

[Stripes]

I did cringe last season watching bad losses in Cleveland and Tennessee. I have a feeling that will much less of a problem now. The Bengals in year one under marvin were abysmal in road losses. In year two, though the road record didn't improve, the games did. Last year's largest margin of defeat was 17 in Cleveland . Every other road game was at least close. We showed great composure in the last two importand road games at Baltimore and New England, against the good teams. I say we at least make it to 4-4 on the road this year, and the losses won't come to crapola!

[Who?]

If the Bengals cannot beat my Brownies this year then I don't know if I would have any respect at all for them, lol.

[HoosierCat]

If the Bengals cannot beat my Brownies this year then I don't know if I would have any respect at all for them, lol.

Most Bengals fans would, I think, be joining you in the lack of respect. No insult to Cleveland intended, but if a Cincy team supposedly heading into "The Year" can't waffle-stomp a Cleveland team in year one of a ground-up rebuild...then the stripey ones have a problem.

Weird thing is, the Bengals didn't used to have this problem with poor competition. Over the 9 seasons of 1991-1999 inclusive, they batted a hefty .625 (25-15) against teams that finished the year with 10 or more loses. Of course, over the same period, they managed a pathetic .183 (34-124) against anything resembling an actual NFL team (7+ wins).

But since 2000, they've got an overall losing record (12-14) against 10+ loss teams. That's 14 losses over 5 seasons vs. 15 losses over the 9 seasons before. That's got to stop.

[CBin2k7]

On any Sunday, any team can beat you, especially when you are on the road. 

at Chicago, at Tenn, at Detroit even at Cleveland.  Those are not easy games.

I agree. Even *gak* Cleveland can be tough at home in the snow.

No one said they weren't tough games. The point is this: top-tier teams still win them virtually all the time.

Yes, they drop 1 or 2, proving the "every given Sunday" rule. Trouble with the Bengals has been their tendency to drop 3 or 4 or 5. In 2003, we were actually worse against bad teams, winning 4 of 9 vs. teams that finished 6-10 or worse, and 4 of 7 against teams that were 7-9 or better.

I don't know why this is. It drives me nuts sometimes the way the Bengals play up and down to the level of the competition. But I do know that we won't make the playoffs if it doesn't stop.

Yeah that is valid, but you also have to look at when you play the "so called" not very good teams. Take for instance 2003, 3 of the 5 losses to teams that ended the season 6-10 or worse happened in the first 5 weeks of the season. The Bengals were not expected to win any of those games coming off of a 2-14 season. That Oakland team that finished 4-12 was at full strength when the Bengals lost the second game of the season out there, and it was a minor miracle coming off of the week 1 game against Denver that the Bengals even kept it close, Oakland was defending AFC Champs at that time. The Buffalo loss and the Pittsburgh loss were also two that were expected, even though the games could have went the other way, the Bengals were not expected to win the game.

Only 2 games stand out in 2003 that the Bengals were favored to win (which probably costs them a shot at the playoffs and proving your point) that they didn't, at Arizona and Cleveland the final game of the season.

In 2004 the Bengals lost 1 game that they were supposed to win and that was even shaky, the game at Cleveland. The Bengals were not favored to win at Tennessee.

I just look at this years schedule and I see a bunch of games that the Bengals are supposed to win, but on the other hand the team that they are playing also might be supposed to win and I can easily see this team at 8-8 again.

[The Big Orange]

On any Sunday, any team can beat you, especially when you are on the road.

at Chicago, at Tenn, at Detroit even at Cleveland. Those are not easy games.

This is very true...think of Miami v Patriots last year...the difference between first place team and last place isn't that far apart. Every team has the talent level that if they are clicking on all cylinders they will beat anyone else.

The trick is to get them clicking...the coaches and teams with pl;ayer leadership who can do this with the most regularity are the ones with the most wins. I feel like we have the right leaders on the sidelines (with the exception of Brat).

Inside the lines we saw Carson get into that comfort level, but man, do we need one on defense. We probably have that in Pollack and maybe Odell...maybe even Madieu (but I doubt it), but none of these guys are ready to lead now.

[TecmoFever]

I think that this is a very good thread. Yes, we all know that no game in the NFL is an easy game. HOWEVER, we need to win three of those four games (at Chicago, at Tennessee, at Detroit, at Cleveland) to take that next step that we're all so looking forward to.

As soon as I started reading this thread, I thought of four games over the past two years that kept us out of the playoffs. Even though we didn't belong in the playoffs the last two years, winning these games would have put us at 10-6 each year and making the playoffs.

2003: at Arizona, vs Cleveland

2004: at Cleveland, at Tennessee

These games were against teams that we were better than at the time. If we're not better than three of those four teams mentioned above (Chi, Ten, Det, Clv), then we're going to have a tough time reaching the playoffs again this year.

[WhoDeyHomer]

I agree wholeheartedly tecmo, we should take 3 of those 4 if we expect to make it to the playoffs. I am sure every Bengal fan would agree that we should really win each and everyone of those as of right now, but when they play out, we do need to take at least 3 of those games. That said I think we can and will. Hopefully we will set the tone early vs Cleveland and roll from there. If we can't beat Chicago then we are in trouble, I think they are terrible right now and Detroit is vastly overrated in my opinion ( we will probably be seeing Garcia at QB again ). Tenn will probably be the roughest, but that doesnt mean we wont win. WhoDey!

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

On any Sunday, any team can beat you, especially when you are on the road. 

at Chicago, at Tenn, at Detroit even at Cleveland.  Those are not easy games.

I agree. Even *gak* Cleveland can be tough at home in the snow.

No one said they weren't tough games. The point is this: top-tier teams still win them virtually all the time.

Uh top teams beat EVERYONE, not just "bad" teams....

[HoosierCat]

Uh top teams beat EVERYONE, not just "bad" teams....

Well, no, they don't, at least not since the '72 fins. But you miss the point. Yes, the top teams are in general victorious -- but they are especially successful against bad clubs. When they drop a game to a poor team, it's the exception. For the Bengals, at least for the last five years, it's been the rule.

Over the past two years, the Bengals have been as successful as the Steelers and Ravens against good teams. It's their inability to match those two clubs at consistently beating the league's lagards that's been the difference. If they want to make the playoffs, that has to change.

[membengal]

Uh top teams beat EVERYONE, not just "bad" teams....

Well, no, they don't, at least not since the '72 fins. But you miss the point. Yes, the top teams are in general victorious -- but they are especially successful against bad clubs. When they drop a game to a poor team, it's the exception. For the Bengals, at least for the last five years, it's been the rule.

Over the past two years, the Bengals have been as successful as the Steelers and Ravens against good teams. It's their inability to match those two clubs at consistently beating the league's lagards that's been the difference. If they want to make the playoffs, that has to change.

Joisey is spot on with this thread.

Bengals simply have to do a better job at taking care of business against sub-.500 teams if they want to take the next step. No question about it.

[schweinhart]

If the Bengals cannot beat my Brownies this year then I don't know if I would have any respect at all for them, lol.

Most Bengals fans would, I think, be joining you in the lack of respect. No insult to Cleveland intended, but if a Cincy team supposedly heading into "The Year" can't waffle-stomp a Cleveland team in year one of a ground-up rebuild...then the stripey ones have a problem.

First off, a Clowns fans of the post-Modell era talking about respect is pathetic.

Secondly, the issue ain't a matter of respect. Anybody that's watched the starts of the last 2 seasons should appreciate the way an ML led team can pull it together to make a run.

If there's a stumble out of the gate, I'll be because what looked like a solution turned out to be sh*t. But that's a risk every year.

Hopefully, there's enough Bengals who remember how bad they played at the end of 2003 vs. Clowns, how idiotic the playcalling was in that game, and how pathetic it was for them to finish the season that way when they were still in the playoff picture when that game was being played.

That said, I see no compelling reasons to thin the 2005 won't be a total a$$kicking:

Bengals 31

Clowns 10

[Columbusbengal]

I think the Bengals generally just played bad the first half of the last two years (and it just happened that bad teams were scheduled then). There was every excuse to play bad the first halves of those two seasons. First year, they were adjusting to Marvin (and vice versa). The second year, they were adjusting to Carson Palmer (and the injuries to the already weak defense). Lets hope for a HEALTHY first half this year. I think the team will be ready to play at the beginning.