Just In warren sapp may be a bengal next year

[JBrooks]

This is why I think Sapp would work in Baltimore. A Ray Lewis could keep a Warren Sapp in check. I expect that Sapp would defer to Ray to some extent in Baltimore (as they are old Miami buddies).

No way in hell would Sapp "defer" to Ray Lewis. He would just be the guy on the Defense who talks back to Ray. A definite no-no. Baltimore's D does not need Sapp. Sapp would be a much bigger distraction on Baltimore.

[redsfan2]

I am going to have to disagree with Jam and others who think Sapp would be a good addition to the Bengals. The man has an ego the size a large truck. There is no counterbalancing force, and as good a coach as Marvin Lewis is, he is a coach and not another player. This is why I think Sapp would work in Baltimore. A Ray Lewis could keep a Warren Sapp in check. I expect that Sapp would defer to Ray to some extent in Baltimore (as they are old Miami buddies). On your team, Sapp would become that loudest voice. Not sure if that is best.

You guys need to be patient and build through the draft, and I'm sure you will. This will put some peoples panties in bunch, but you guys will become Baltimore West. Jacksonville is already turning into Baltimore South. The Billick/Ozzie method, one that works, is being used by those who leave this organization and revitalize other organizations. Build through the Draft, motivate and focus on chemistry, treat the players as men. Del Rio and Lewis's coaching styles are not identical to Billick's, but the imprint is there (The same way I'm sure Billick picked up pieces of Bill Walsh). If you guys follows the "Baltimore Blueprint" we'll be slugging it out for the division for years and years to come.

Some good points. Some I can't go along with.

I doubt that the Ravens would be interested in Sapp for the same reason the Bengals wouldn't. He's just got too many negatives to have an upside. As for deferring too Ray Lewis ....... yeah .... I don't think so. Instead, I can see Lewis kicking his fatass for him ... literally, and that's just not conducive to team harmony. Gruden is a good, tough coach, and if Sapp will defy him then he won't think twice about going against a team mate. For one thing, its like others have said .. he'snot a team player.

As for us becoming Baltimore West, in keeping with the holiday spirit, I prefer to think of you guys as the Ghost of Marvin Lewis Past and the Bengals as the Spirit of Marvin Lewis future.

Last point, about the title. Sportswriters are going to stop referring to the AFC North as a weak division and that's for sure.

[Kirkendall]

This is why I think Sapp would work in Baltimore. A Ray Lewis could keep a Warren Sapp in check. I expect that Sapp would defer to Ray to some extent in Baltimore (as they are old Miami buddies)

I completely agree.

Bottom line, Sapp would make our defense much better.

I honestly don't know if this is true, he would take money away from Bailey (if he comes here and whom everyone here covents), other possible role players that would in the end. I would rather have 5 additional good players around the team than one fat, aging and overrated past 2 years Sapp.

Pass rush? He would be huge for the Bengals.

I think his sacks numbers are highly saturated. The Bucs blitz a good amount forcing the QB to step into the pocket where Sapp meets him after the secondary has covered all receivers. Sapp is a benefiter of other positions performing well. I think Sapp is a product of the system of ol' Monty.

Can anyone here justify paying Sapp over $5 million (you think he'll take anything less?) per year while our secondary struggles? Get better secondary personnel and you'll see Smith and company get their sacks.

Sapp is no good when the QB is able to throw the ball within 2-3 seconds. Cover the guys in route and you'll see our pass rush drastically improve.

[JBrooks]

Pass rush? He would be huge for the Bengals.

I think his sacks numbers are highly saturated. The Bucs blitz a good amount forcing the QB to step into the pocket where Sapp meets him after the secondary has covered all receivers. Sapp is a benefiter of other positions performing well. I think Sapp is a product of the system of ol' Monty.

Can anyone here justify paying Sapp over $5 million (you think he'll take anything less?) per year while our secondary struggles? Get better secondary personnel and you'll see Smith and company get their sacks.

Sapp is no good when the QB is able to throw the ball within 2-3 seconds. Cover the guys in route and you'll see our pass rush drastically improve.

Kirk, check my post a little closer. I said Sapp wouldn't get the sacks himself, because, I have to disagree that the Bucs blitz helps Sapp. Sack numbers? I don't think Sapp will ever have them.

But he's the one who helps the pass rusher. He gets the push up the middle and gives the QB nowhere to go when Brooks, Simeon Rice rush the edge.

This is what a good DT does. He draws the blocks away from the LB and DE because if they go one on one with a big, fast DT, he gets the sack. It's a pick your poison that you want to force the O-line into.

[Arizona]

HUMBUG!!

[Kirkendall]

Kirk, check my post a little closer. I said Sapp wouldn't get the sacks himself, because, I have to disagree that the Bucs blitz helps Sapp. Sack numbers? I don't think Sapp will ever have them.

Kind of wasn't referring to just your post, but Sapp in the league is known as a sackmeister and wanted to address that as well. He had between 1999 and 2000 29 combined sacks (three seasons with 10 or more), 77 for his career in 9 seasons. He's definately a sacker. My whole point was to address Sapps numbers in sacks in a system that works well for him. Leslie Frazier doesn't have that type of system implimented in Cincy. Again I wasn't just specifically rebutting your post, addressing the overall circumstance of pass rushing.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Good points made by one and all, and I do respect them. Yes, it's a dangerous decision. Why? He's a loose cannon. No argument.

But he also brings an undying will to win, and he's used to winning, hence his frustration this year, and being on last years championship team, who now finds themselves on the outside looking in!

You have to admit, with all his antics, many of which I agree have a negative charge on them, he's focused on the one main positive...winning. When that's happening for him, you don't see the negative. (Yes, he'll run his mouth, but so does Chad, and we love him!)

I stand by my earlier position of liking to see him...UNDER MARVINS STRICT CONTROL...bring his attitude to a defense that honestly has absolutely NONE! Until that changes, and I believe it will, just sooner with Warren, and some time longer with through draft without Mr. Sapp, the Bengals aren't going to be force they need to be in this league. (Again, let me add I would like nothing more than to dine on those words, but I don't think so!)

[JBrooks]

I agree, early on Sapp was a sacker. But as the defense progressed, and Sapp drew the double teams, he became a guy who held down the middle. Like any young player Sapp used strength, speed and athleticism to push through blockers, get off the ball quick, etc. to record those sack numbers. Then, he became the guy to draw blockers away from edge rushers.

We have the edge rushers in place, we need the big DT to give them a chance. I love John Thornton, but he gets pushed off to the side more often than he holds the middle and pushes the C/G's back. Sapp does this, and Frazier would use that to his advantage. Look at the big DT's Baltimore had in their Super Bowl year, they helped guys like Boulware, McRary stay off blocks to get in on the QB.

[Kirkendall]

I understand the thought process everyone thinks having Sapp on the D-line. I just think, as a team, we'd be better off drafting fat guys this year. There's a guy from Miami, Vince Wilfork (I think that's the spelling) whose well over 350 pounds and boy he could stuff up the run. Or Randy Starks or Marcus Tubbs. There are so many options we could go through, having Sapp would benefit our defense somewhat, but I disagree that it would benefit our team.

[Boobie Clark]

Am I the only one working today? You guys suck.

Damn if it wouldn't be tempting to bring in Sapp. I have a 4-yr old who rules the TV, so I mostly watch Disney. I don't get to watch NFL Tonight or Sportscenter very often, but when I do, I don't see much about Sapp being anti-team. When I see him in games, he's always into the game, encouraging his teammates, the first to give love to the offense after a score. He might be a big-mouth, which probably pisses off management, but he's a players' player.

Now, all that said, if we can attract Sapp, we can certainly bring in younger, moldable players who better fit into the community. Look at what happen to Dan Wilkinson. I remember him talking about Cincy being a racist town and he wanted out. He was bad news, so good for us. His next stop will be the CFL.

Anyway, if we've got Sapp money to spend and no one else is available, I say bring him in. Give him a 1 or 2 year contract. What's the worst that can happen?

Okay, back to work. Merry Christmas!

[BengalszoneBilly]

On your team, Sapp would become that loudest voice. Not sure if that is best.

Loudest voice!?! Hell, As soon as he said one word, that would make him the first, and only real voice I've heard from the defense in YEARS!! The defense has no soul, no center, and definitely no focus. Somebody has to change that, be it a player, or a coach. Regardless of which, they best be steppin up, and soon!!

[BengalszoneBilly]

Am I the only one working today? You guys suck.

Damn if it wouldn't be tempting to bring in Sapp. I have a 4-yr old who rules the TV, so I mostly watch Disney. I don't get to watch NFL Tonight or Sportscenter very often, but when I do, I don't see much about Sapp being anti-team. When I see him in games, he's always into the game, encouraging his teammates, the first to give love to the offense after a score. He might be a big-mouth, which probably pisses off management, but he's a players' player.

Now, all that said, if we can attract Sapp, we can certainly bring in younger, moldable players who better fit into the community. Look at what happen to Dan Wilkinson. I remember him talking about Cincy being a racist town and he wanted out. He was bad news, so good for us. His next stop will be the CFL.

Anyway, if we've got Sapp money to spend and no one else is available, I say bring him in. Give him a 1 or 2 year contract. What's the worst that can happen?

Okay, back to work. Merry Christmas!

Looks like you ARE the only one working there Boobie, but at least you have enough freedom to check in with us here from time to time.

I agree that Warren, FOR THE MOST PART, is a players player. That makes him a motivator. A player who lives to win, and sure as hell ain't happy when he loses, and he'll tell you all about what he thinks if he is losing!

Yes...he spoke out against the powers that be at Tampa Bay, but no one considers the he could have been right about what he said!

[Kirkendall]

The defense has no soul, no center, and definitely no focus.

Wasn't this the role Brian Simmons was supposed to take on?

he spoke out against the powers that be at Tampa Bay, but no one considers the he could have been right about what he said!

Why do we give athletes in general a free pass in this area? How many of you have spoken out against management and not be suspended, not lost a paycheck, not on probation? I hate that aspect of sports. I used to work with a dinky ol witch a few years back whom couldn't fulfill take the trash out before 10am if the trash man came at 6 in the morning -- other words she's a dumbass. But if I would have said anything I would have been cut. That's crazy about sports. The only reason it's not viewed like that in the majority is because it's an entertainment factor and not a requirement for life.

...back to Sapp. I really don't want someone on this team that doesn't respect authority, does his own will, and more than likely diss our community. We've seen teams hire high priced players and get nothing out of it. Keep the foundation together, don't disrupt the chemistry and bring in guys that can give this team soul through great play.

Am I the only one working today? You guys suck.

Hey man, I'm working too. I'm just not 'working' at work.

You know what? With all of this said, we are respondiing to a guy that's a total dip and told us we all suck. Man did we go on about it though, it wouldn't be typical of us if we didn't..

Good debate though.. this is the fun part in forum discussions..

[BengalszoneBilly]

Brian Simmons the soul/center/focus/leader of the defense? He's failed miserably. He may still be "finding himself" in this league, or with this team. If that's the case, he best be starting to dress to impress, and soon, or someone else will do the leading for him.

[JBrooks]

The defense has no soul, no center, and definitely no focus.

Wasn't this the role Brian Simmons was supposed to take on?

I'll say this, I think Simmons will be much better with a front 4 of Smith, Clemons, Thornton, Sapp.

The three guys on the line already in stripes will be better. And after a year in a new system, a new position and the addition of a Sapp, Hardy will be better.

I think we definitely need a young guy to groom for the trenches. Sapp isn't the long-term answer, maybe not even an answer period, but he would be a great guy to have pushing around opposing O-lines.

To reiterate what broome said in another thread, it doesn't really matter what we think. Marvin will be the guy making the decision. And I don't think he'll mess it up. I've learned all year, second-guessing Marvin makes me wrong a majority of the time. If he thinks Sapp will be more production than distraction...I believe.

[Kirkendall]

Billy and JB.

Don't get me wrong. I'm fighting this issue in terms of what would be best for team. Would bringing Sapp onto the team help our defense? No question. Would it help our team? Would paying him that kind of money force us to break up a little (I.E. Ken Griffey JR.)? I don't know the answer to this. I don't even know if this is a discussion that should be talked about.

I know the dude that started the thread is an instigator, but this has been a compelling debate regardless.

Last word:

In Marvin We Trust.

Can I get a hell yea?

[BengalszoneBilly]

Oh without reservation...HELL YEA!!

[bengal fan]

Billy and JB.

Don't get me wrong. I'm fighting this issue in terms of what would be best for team. Would bringing Sapp onto the team help our defense? No question. Would it help our team? Would paying him that kind of money force us to break up a little (I.E. Ken Griffey JR.)? I don't know the answer to this. I don't even know if this is a discussion that should be talked about.

I know the dude that started the thread is an instigator, but this has been a compelling debate regardless.

Last word:

In Marvin We Trust.

Can I get a hell yea?

I know the dude that started the thread is an instigator,

why do i get bashed for being a bengal fan, man i am thinking that these comments are out of hand, and by the way kirk, the zapp rumor was in the news paper i do not have to make things up, and billy you are right the defence needs some fire, you know when we score 20 or 30 points we should win them games. i would have to say it would be very dissapointing to see our bengals give up a playoff game, or a superbowl dew to lack of defence. go bengals

[BengalszoneBilly]

Hey! I ain't bashin'! I noticed the word "Bengal" before "Fan" on your moniker. Others seem to be a little less than sure of your alliegences. Just posting what you think from time to time on ANY type of website is going to piss off somebody somewhere. Why? Because you can't make everybody happy all the time.

That's why every morning I stand in the mirror and practice saying "Kiss My Ass", ten times before I leave the house in the morning. Rarely a day goes by when I'm not called on to use that sentence in a reply!

[bengal fan]

thank you billy, go bengals, for real playoff bond this weekend

[jbengals1]

I would have to say HELL YEA -- if we could get him...but then again we prob could get 2-3 others for the price of the 1

[Kirkendall]

Bengal Fan - As I said in another post, you've made comments that have led to a little confusion from other members, including myself. So just make what you're trying to say clear, deal? Sorry if you think I'm attacking you.

the zapp rumor was in the news paper i do not have to make things up

Regarding the Sapp comment - I haven't heard that from anywhere, not even the local Cincinnati papers that would soak that up, nor Bengals.com where Hobson reports nearly everything that he hears. So you can understand if we are hesitant on what your information suggests. Plus I highly doubt that Sapp would express interest for another team while he's in the middle of the season as a mainstay in TB (not the same as Dillon). What paper did you get that from? I'm not suggesting your lying, but I would like (as well as 99% of the members here) to follow that up.

Happy Holidays All.

[redsfan2]

Billy and JB.

Don't get me wrong. I'm fighting this issue in terms of what would be best for team. Would bringing Sapp onto the team help our defense? No question. Would it help our team? Would paying him that kind of money force us to break up a little (I.E. Ken Griffey JR.)? I don't know the answer to this. I don't even know if this is a discussion that should be talked about.

I know the dude that started the thread is an instigator, but this has been a compelling debate regardless.

Last word:

In Marvin We Trust.

Can I get a hell yea?

Just got back, but .............. HELL YEAH !

Re the rumor:

bengal fan - At the start of the topic, you said you saw it on the tv. But now you're telling Kirk that it was in the newspaper. Not doubting that you saw it if you say so, but I like BengalBobNC can't find it anywhere. Which newspaper and or tv station carried the story ? If you can't say where you got the info from, you really can't call Kirk out for insinuating that you may be an instigator.

He's right about one thing though. This sure did bring out some interesting takes and differing points of view. Debate is a good thing. It gets everyone thinking along new lines .... or at lest considering alternatives.

[HoosierCat]

Which newspaper and or tv station carried the story ? If you can't say where you got the info from, you really can't call Kirk out for insinuating that you may be an instigator.

Sorry for the late comment, I've been travelling doing the visiting-family-for-Xmas thing. I can't say I've seen any specific Sapp-to-Bengals stuff, but his name seems to surface regularly in Bengals tyrade rumors. Remember the Sapp-for-Spikes trade rumors of a year or two ago?

That said, Sapp is a free agent after this year and the conventional wisdom has long been that he won't be back in Tampa in '04. Anthony McFarland is playing well and, the thinking goes, the Bucs no longer need or want the aging, high-priced and fractious Sapp.

I don't have any particular desire to see Sapp in stripes, but if the price were right I wouldn't object, either. And price is likely to be the sticking point. Sapp will want big bucks and someone, someplace, will give it to him. It won't be here.

[chrishcovga]

sapp just stated yesterday on nfl's "total access" with mike strahan ,that he'll go where the best money is,don't look for cincy to spend that type of money on him.Plus where would we put him.If we did land him,then that means tony williams and oliver gibson are gone,not that i have a problem with that,but last year's moves prove that what you spend on one guy(spikes) could land you an additional 4.(hardy,thornton,james,powell),and we'll add reggie kelly when he plays!