HoosierCat Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 from hobson, quoting lenny @ espn...smart move on both sides, IMHO.NEW DEAL: ESPN.com is reporting that the Bengals and injured middle linebacker Nate Webster aren’t parting ways anytime soon as a re-done deal reflects a commitment on both sides, even though NFL senior writer Len Pasquarelli is reporting the final three years of his five-year deal at $5.7 million has been voided. It is now an incentive-laden one-year deal at the $540,000 minimum. If the Bengals had cut Webster in the middle of his rehab, it would been a player’s worst-case scenario: Hurt and unemployed. But now if he makes the team (and it will be tough with Landon Johnson and Odell Thurman in front of him), he gets paid for this year and gets a chance at a new contract next year. This also gives him the luxury of not rushing back for training camp if his kneecap isn’t ready after two surgeries on the torn patella tendon. The first injury came late in last season’s third game. The second injury came two months later in December. But Webster now has a workable enough deal that the Bengals could conceivably put him on the physically unable to perform list (PUP). The down side is he wouldn’t be able to practice all of training camp and the first six weeks of the season. The upside is he could be sure his knee is ready and the Bengals can still carry him through the roster cutdown. But it’s all speculation now and is hinging on the knee. Webster had been scheduled to make $1.5 million this year. The most he can make this year, according to ESPN.com, is $1 million if he reaches all of his $500,000 in play-time escalators. The Bengals took a bigger cap hit this year on Webster ($2.5 million) compared to the old deal ($2.1 million), but they have now freed up space in the future depending on how he comes back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ29 Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 I think that keeps him here for this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted June 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 Here's lenny's write up from his tip sheet column...I think we can pencil him in for PUP...Sometimes you've got to take a step backward in the NFL to eventually move your career a step forward, and there might be no better current example of that than the Cincinnati Bengals' Nate Webster. The team's starting middle linebacker at the outset of 2004, after signing a five-year contract that included a $2.5 million signing bonus, Webster played in only three games but posted 20 tackles. He landed on the injured reserve list, unfortunately, after suffering a torn right patella tendon in late September, then his career was severely jeopardized in December when he tore the tendon again, precipitating a second surgery. There were suggestions, some of them emanating from this space, that the Bengals were attempting to reach an injury settlement with Webster this spring. Turned out those reports were without substance, as such settlements are not permitted for injuries that occurred the previous year. What is true, however, is that Cincinnati, which now has second-year veteran Landon Johnson and 2005 second-round pick Odell Thurman ahead of Webster on the depth chart, was prepared to release Webster, who might not be fully rehabilitated until training camp – if then. Webster, though, made a wise, albeit financially costly, decision. Since no team in the NFL likely would have pursued a player who was still injured when released, Webster opted to dramatically restructure his contract to a level more palatable to Bengals officials. He reduced his base salary for 2005 from $1.5 million to $540,000, the league minimum for a five-year veteran. He can earn another $500,000 based on playing time. Almost as notable, the final three years of the contract, a stretch in which Webster was to have earned $5.7 million in base salaries and offseason workout bonuses, were voided. So why would Webster allow such a reworking, one in which the net result is that he could end up forfeiting nearly $7 million of the deal's original $11.3 million? Because it behooves him to continue rehabilitating under the guidance of the Bengals' training staff rather than on his own. And if he can somehow get himself whole, work his way back up the depth chart and perhaps become a contributor in 2005, he will be an unrestricted free agent next spring, and perhaps capable of recouping in the open market some of the money he forfeited. It will be no small feat for Webster to even make the Cincinnati roster, since the Bengals like Johnson and Thurman was one of the steals of the draft. But for now, at least, having a job and a paycheck beats being out on the street and trying to rehab his right knee on his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 I think that keeps him here for this year. Ummm, yea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ29 Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 I think that keeps him here for this year.Ummm, yea. What I'm saying is that it's unlikely that he gets cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted June 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 I think that keeps him here for this year.Ummm, yea. What I'm saying is that it's unlikely that he gets cut. Well...clearly, it was either take the pay cut or be cut now; Webster didn't forfeit the kind of dough he did out of the goodness of his heart. If he doesn't make the active squad, he'll be PUPed; if after six weeks he still can't go, then my bet is he'll be issued his walking papers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jditty47 Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 I think that keeps him here for this year.Ummm, yea. What I'm saying is that it's unlikely that he gets cut. um duh.and i am impressed with this move on websters part. hes not being greedy...who woulda thunk it? now i hope the man gets on the field this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Orange Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 I with you dit...I think this will make fans root for him and want him to at least get a fair shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 I don't know if it's about a lack of greed or not, but as we're currently discussing about players preparing for the future in the NFL forum, Webster is preparing for the future. This is what I found most intriguing:it behooves him to continue rehabilitating under the guidance of the Bengals' training staff rather than on his own. And if he can somehow get himself whole, work his way back up the depth chart and perhaps become a contributor in 2005, he will be an unrestricted free agent next spring, and perhaps capable of recouping in the open market some of the money he forfeited. It will be no small feat for Webster to even make the Cincinnati roster, since the Bengals like Johnson and Thurman was one of the steals of the draft. But for now, at least, having a job and a paycheck beats being out on the street and trying to rehab his right knee on his own.Money aside, Webster taking a cut, sticking with the Bengals training staff, just makes sense for his future playing career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spain Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 great post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 ...I think we can pencil him in for PUP... A good move all around but it still leaves me with mixed feelings. The decision allows the Bengals to wait for Webster to heal which is a major positive, but the news that they really were prepared to cut him just a few weeks ago doesn't say good things about where his conditioning and health was then, where it is now, and where it's probably going to be when the season starts. Yeah, no surprises coming....the PUP list awaits. Funny thing though, this move points out very well just how much depth the Bengals have developed at the LB positions in very short order. It's largely unproven...as was the defensive secondary prior to last season...but if things develope as planned the starting positions will settle out and the depth will better than it's been in recent memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshfan Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 He's very lucky Marvin still has some confidence in him..... I doubt he'll play much early on and his effectiveness is still in doubt at this juncture... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybren Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 Good work by his agent, too. After seeing so many veterans get cut for cap reasons over the years, it's reassuring that somebody is finally getting the hint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimington over Marino Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 It was actually the smartest thing he could do. If he was cut, he would be gone, possibly never play again. He could not play this year at all. As it said in the columns by both writers, no team would take a chance on him this year at all. Although I think I could live on the current signing bonus quite comfortably, he gets a chance to make more and stay with the organization. He will be a free agent next March. With the depth at MLB he can move on to another team, perhaps sign 1 more contract. Another team will maybe take a chance on him. That means another signing bonus. This way he is under contract for this year. If he can with the Bengals trainers work his way back, he will be available for Marvin late in the year when it always seems they need bodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schweinhart Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 He's very lucky Marvin still has some confidence in him..... I doubt he'll play much early on and his effectiveness is still in doubt at this juncture... The Natester is extremely lucky. His effectiveness seemed in doubt even before the injury.Not sure about the $400k more of a cap hit this year by doing the deal. Curnutte guesstimated a couple days ago the Bengals were $4.8 mil under the cap. W/ the Nate deal, it's $4.4 mill. Minus the rookie pool and its down to $1 mil. That could impact contract extensions and force some harder cuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengal4life Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 I don't know if fans will route for him nearly as much as they will Odell or Landon. I think Landon will start as starter but by midseason if not sooner Odell will take his spot and Landon will take simmons spot on the outside on running downs. Don't get me wrong I like simmons ability to cover but when it comes to stopping the run he isn't all that great. :player: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiLBurn Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 This was a nice way of showing him the door. Keep him on PUP for 6 weeks as insurance against injuries. Come week 6, if we have to create a roster spot for him, he is gone. We will have already absorbed the cap hit for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OICanDoThat Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 The Natester is extremely lucky. His effectiveness seemed in doubt even before the injury.Not sure about the $400k more of a cap hit this year by doing the deal. Curnutte guesstimated a couple days ago the Bengals were $4.8 mil under the cap. W/ the Nate deal, it's $4.4 mill. Minus the rookie pool and its down to $1 mil. That could impact contract extensions and force some harder cuts. Chances are there are no new players (free agents) that are going to be signed without a corresponding player being released, saving that million for escallators and bonuses of current contracts, and even possibly extensions. I sincerely doubt, however, they would cut some current veterans now for the sole purpose of signing contract extensions for others. Extensions are more than likely to be singed in the off season, unless they don't effect the current year cap hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jditty47 Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 I don't know if fans will route for him nearly as much as they will Odell or Landon. I think Landon will start as starter but by midseason if not sooner Odell will take his spot and Landon will take simmons spot on the outside on running downs. Don't get me wrong I like simmons ability to cover but when it comes to stopping the run he isn't all that great. :player: simmons is fine at stopping the run. everyone on a defense has a job, just cuz its ran to his side doesnt mean hes the one that supposed to get all the tackles....sometimes he takes on blocks to get others better position. if he had a middle lb and some safeties to back him up, he'd be great...so watch this year...no body is gonna be takin his spot in the rotation...i gaurantee it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 Aye no sitting simmons I wanna see him go to a probowl within the next 2years They could get plenty of play time with Landon+odell Play them each on 1st & 2nd then both on 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 The Bengals did him a favor as a player because of his injury, and he will be allowed to pursue employment elsewhere as soon as he's 100%. If one of the Bengals' own LB's goes down for the year then yeah, they probably would keep him, if he doesn't hit the season on the PUP list or IR for the year.So, it's hard to say if he'll stick around or not I think, but more than likely we've seen the last of him on the field in stripes either way, which is fine with me because outside of one decent game he stunk before he got hurt, and I'm not sure he'll ever be the same player again - and as a full-time MLB may just get hurt constantly for his size, look at the problems Miller and Landon had last year, LJ still isn't 100% because of his shoulder.Guess that's what you get with liking fast, under-sized MLB's. Hopefully Odell is durable and what he seems to be - another Takeo eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jditty47 Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 and wtf is up with all u dissin on simmons now? has he not been the most reliable part on our D for the past 7 years? i cannot believe how ppl discredit him cuz hes now getting near the 30 yr old mark. Hes not 30 yet, hes still young. i cant wait for this season to begin so some of u can eat ur words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybren Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 Simmons needs to hire Nate's agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 The Bengals did him a favor as a player because of his injury, and he will be allowed to pursue employment elsewhere as soon as he's 100%. If one of the Bengals' own LB's goes down for the year then yeah, they probably would keep him, if he doesn't hit the season on the PUP list or IR for the year.So, it's hard to say if he'll stick around or not I think, but more than likely we've seen the last of him on the field in stripes either way, which is fine with me because outside of one decent game he stunk before he got hurt, and I'm not sure he'll ever be the same player again - and as a full-time MLB may just get hurt constantly for his size, look at the problems Miller and Landon had last year, LJ still isn't 100% because of his shoulder.Guess that's what you get with liking fast, under-sized MLB's. Hopefully Odell is durable and what he seems to be - another Takeo eventually. So Landon only got hurt because he's lighter? "looks at nate webster" I think landon did just fine at being 220-230 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 If he can make the team, great, but he won't start here for the Bengals ( Injuries aside ) any more that's for sure. If he lasts the one year, or he's released, either way, it pushes more free money into the following year's salary cap, so here's a hint..START WORKING ON THE EXTENSIONS FOR LEVI AND STEINBACH....that is all. :player: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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