T.O. not greedy?

[BengalszoneBilly]

What's wrong with being a man and HONORING THE CONTRACT YOU SIGNED! Your word means NOTHING without honor. Anyway heres the LINK to this retards article.

[Kirkendall]

The author sure did make Drew seem peachy, eh?

[BengalszoneBilly]

The author sure did make Drew seem peachy, eh?

It made him look like he was doing some kind of noble deed! In-freakin-credible!

[BengalNation1281]

Yeah, Drew Rosenhaus is a true American hero.

I started reading that article, but I couldn't finish it...my stomach started rolling around the middle of the first page.

Drew Rosenhaus should not be praised for what he does...he is a vile, slimy creature, and his "if you don't want to pay, my clients won't play" style of negotiating sets a horrible example. I sincerely hope that the owners don't cave...if they don't want to play, f**k 'em.

[Kirkendall]

That's not completely fair BN. I really think if there's anger and blame, it needs to go directly to the owners. If a kid steals candy from a store, and his parents do not discipline him, does he think it's ok to do it again until he's disciplined? The owners, not Drew are the ultimate contributers. He's just at work and getting away with his tactics.

[BengalNation1281]

That's not completely fair BN. I really think if there's anger and blame, it needs to go directly to the owners. If a kid steals candy from a store, and his parents do not discipline him, does he think it's ok to do it again until he's disciplined? The owners, not Drew are the ultimate contributers. He's just at work and getting away with his tactics.

You're right, kirk. I put the blame on Rosenhaus when the blame should be passed around equally.

Rosenhaus is doing what he is paid to do, and obviously he does it well, but I find his tactics to be infuriating. But, as you said, if the owners would simply put their collective foot down and not cave in to the players' demands, then situations like these would not be as much of a problem as they currently are.

I think alot of my anger towards Rosenhaus comes from the fact that he looks and acts like a used-car salesman.

[Kirkendall]

Rosenhaus is doing what he is paid to do, and obviously he does it well, but I find his tactics to be infuriating.

Me too man, I'm with you. I think it's very unprofessional, juvenile, and insulting to the traditions and history of the game.

But, as you said, if the owners would simply put their collective foot down and not cave in to the players' demands, then situations like these would not be as much of a problem as they currently are.

This is where I find a catch-22. If the owners did say no to TO-like situations, I believe there could be a collision with the new CBA. Because the owners will undoubtedly bring this up while players will want guaranteed contracts. Lockout, strike? I hope not. And I would have said, "looking at the NHL" then they'd never do the same. But the NBA in their CBA negotiations seem to losing confidence a deal could be done. I highly commend the NHL for doing this. They are losing tons of money, have a bad image right now; and the owners are still sticking to their position. While it sucks for the sport as a whole, undoubtedly, it will make the sport better and stronger for the future.

Then one could say, wasn't MLB like that in '94. Well no. Because the owners conceded, conceded and conceded to the players demands until, well, you could write a book about MLB"s problems today.

I think alot of my anger towards Rosenhaus comes from the fact that he looks and acts like a used-car salesman.

It should be. He doesn't give one damn about the sport nor the players. He's a greedist pig. There's no doubt about that. But as long as he's stealing the candy from the store, he'll continue doing it. Can we blame him?

[HoosierCat]

Shrug. The msn guy is absolutely right. What's T.O. got to lose? I might point out that as far as I can tell, Owens hasn't done anything to violate his contract. If he does -- by, say, holding out of camp -- then there will be appropriate financial penalties as spelled out in the agreement. The idea that he won't play come September is laughable. He can play...or like Williams with the Dolphins he can give his signing bonus back.

Oh yeah, that'll happen...

Personally, I think Owens is acting like an ass. But unfortunately, there's no law against that.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Personally, I think Owens is acting like an ass. But unfortunately, there's no law against that.

If there was, he'd be on death row!

[Kirkendall]

What's T.O. got to lose?

Respect. Fan support. Both can increase one's value. Fans can (and do) have some say into what a team should do. Especially in this area with all the sports talk that we have.

I might point out that as far as I can tell, Owens hasn't done anything to violate his contract.

Good point. It's the disease we all have. Especially Cincinnatians with the crappy Reds and all the problems U.C. is having. Amazing how things changed in a 2 year span...

Personally, I think Owens is acting like an ass. But unfortunately, there's no law against that.

That's true, but at some point players like this "ass" need to understand respect for a team and fan support increases their value.

I guess it's fans = old school | players = school of business of economics. Who's going to win? Stay tuned.

[HoosierCat]

What's T.O. got to lose?

Respect. Fan support. Both can increase one's value.

True...but I think that if he gave a rat's behind about either of things, he wouldn't have started up with this whole "new contract" bit in the first place. Yeah, it only reinforces his image as a primma donna, but he's still a very talented primma donna...so if he manages to jaw his way off the team, someone will cowboy up for him. Or maybe the Eagles fold and give him more money. Either way, he wins.

Worst-case for T.O. is that he sits out camp, pays some penny-ante fines and then has to report for work in September....and happily informs anyone who'll listen that he'll do the same thing next year. Sooner or later, he'll get his way.

Really, I can't argue with T.O.'s basic position: he thinks he's underpaid. If you or I thought we were underpaid (I know, who doesn't, but within reason) and had the ability to play this kind of game, well, I know I would. But it's the sum of money -- million of dollars -- that turn what's a reasonable principle into a farce. Which only goes to prove (again) that pro athletes, or at least the top-shelf ones, don't live in the same world as everyone else.

[bengalboomer7]

My problem with is goes all the way back to last year and his FA tragedy In my eyes this guy deserves to be pissed off cause Kyle Boller can't gt him the ball. Then on top of that, the NFLPA told him NOT to sign that contract and told him he was not getting a good deal, so what did T.O. do, he signed it anyway. For all of these reasons and many more is why this is so assinine He might not be violating his contract, but this is a laughable situation and i don't get why more people aren't bringing up all the crap he screwed up in FA last year. he should still be happy he is playing for the Eagles instead he could be enjoying shower time with an armed Ray Lewis

Basically, i wouldn't really care that much if it hadn't been for all of his stupidity last year. That is what makes this situation so ridiculous to me. If they paid for integrity and respect he would owe them money

[Kirkendall]

Really, I can't argue with T.O.'s basic position: he thinks he's underpaid. If you or I thought we were underpaid (I know, who doesn't, but within reason) and had the ability to play this kind of game, well, I know I would.

Wanting a new contract is one thing, I haven't agrued against that. I understand the money part, if I'm getting paid less for someone at my work with the same job yet I do tons more, then yea, I'd demand a raise. It's the tactics of threats, sitting out, bitching to the media, ripping teammates, etc.. that's my problem with TO's antics.

And the amount of money doesn't bother me either, because you will always find a social class lesser than someone else. I'm sure homeless and welfare people will gaff at my request for an increase.

Worst case scenario for TO is that he doesn't play. Philly has stated multiple times the contract he has is fine and if doesn't play, then he doesn't play nor get paid. But I don't believe it will come to that, at least not yet. It's not that close to camp yet and there's still tons of time left.

[HoosierCat]

It's the tactics of threats, sitting out, bitching to the media, ripping teammates, etc.. that's my problem with TO's antics.

Well, in T.O.'s case I'm not sure how much of that is related to his desire for a new deal, and how much is just part of the fallout from losing the Super Bowl. As I said in another thread, I think the Eagles are a team in trouble; compared to dipwads like Freddie Mitchell, T.O. is an angel. And don't forget that Westbrook and Simon are holding out as well. The whole team seems to have been hit with a big dose of selfishness...and IMHO that's because many of the players have lost faith in Reid and McNabb. I have to wonder if Owens would be doing the same stuff if he was wearing a Super Bowl ring.

[Kirkendall]

Good point about the results of the Super Bowl dictating this situation. There could be some truth to that.

I don't think, however, anyone has lost confidence in Reid or McNabb. Four NFC Championship appearences and a Super Bowl bid last year is pretty good and I'll bet most of the players know, unless your playing for Belichick, that's next to improbable with any other team. True, there's probably frustration in Philly, but all in all, most players on the Eagles would have difficulty finding that success anywhere else.

The Eagles have been written off before after their 3 failed NFC championship games in the past. What do they do? They're back the following year. I put them on the same level as the Pats in that they always find their way to the "final four" when most suggest they might not make the post-season before the season starts.

We should start an NFL post for each team... at least it would help pass the off-season and not rehashing and talking about the same Bengals topics.

[HoosierCat]

Each team might be a bit much but each division might be worth doing. ESPN.com is firing up its annual offseason overviews, so why not us? (Or we could get off our lazy butts and get back on sked with the Banter and all... )

Re the Eagles, I wouldn't write them off, if only because they play in the NFC East, which may be the weakest divison in football right now. But I do get the sense they're in disarray, and I can't help but think that's related to how they lost the big game. They didn't just lose, they played like crap. The Eagles had several opportunities to put the Pats away early and passed on all of them, and then there was the bizarre last drive, with no urgency on the field or the sideline, and then the whole Reid-McNabb-he-was-sick-no-he-wasn't stuff. The bottom line is that both Reid and McNabb seemed to just...quit...as time ran down.

I would not be surprised to find that a lot of Eagle players have spent a lot of the offseason wondering WTF was going on in those last five minutes and why they busted their butts all year long only to have things end with that kind of pathetic whimper.

[BengalByTheBay]

I gotta say I'm with Joisey on this one (did I just say that??). This is built into the system. The only leverage a guy under contract has is to hold out (or threaten to hold out). Didn't Rudi do the same thing? The only difference is how long you play out the scenario and who your agent is (these two are inextricably intertwined). In some ways its a kind of pressure valve which lets the owners continue to write long term contracts, while giving them the ability to opt out by renegotiating upwards if the market slides up. The player can either hold out or work to get an agreement in between. The whole idea of a salary cap is designed to give the owners an excuse for keeping salaries as low as possible. You can bet that the owners would never pay a player more than they thought the player would recoup for them in jersey sales, ticket sales, etc., etc. I have no more love for owners in this than I do for the players. This is really a fight between evil and evil IMO.

It really helps Philly in this scenario that TO is such a jerk and Rosenhaus is a POS because it allows them to act like they're doing the right thing. The only thing I really worry about is keeping our guys in check. Talk to me next year when Chad fires up the media machine

[BengalszoneBilly]

I gotta say I'm with Joisey on this one (did I just say that??). This is built into the system.

No argument there. It's an alternative a agent has at his disposal, but it doesn't change the fact you haven't honored your word. If you don't think you'll still like the contract after 1 year (or one week!) don't sign it for more than that!

A mans word is the only thing of real value you're born with. Women are a different story in this regard, but that's a discussion for someplace else!