Perry Will Surprise

[Bobcat Bengal]

Why do some of you rip on Rudi? I don't see the point.

Me either. RUDI is a power running back, which is what we need in this conference.

I don't hear Steelers fans complaining about Jerome Bettis, and he's probably the slowest back in the league.

Let it go.

[HoosierCat]

And if they happen to tick you off a little because of the lack of respect they show Chris Perry then so much the better. Just think of it as well deserved payback for your constantly dinging the player who made Dillon an afterthought.

Where? Show me where I'm "dinging" Rudi? (You're welcome to try, too, kirk.) Sorry, but about the worst I can be accused of saying about Rudi is that he's a top-15 back. What I don't like is his price tag. Given the seamless transition from Dillon to Rudi -- which speaks volumes about the overall caliber of our offense -- it's unlikley a change from Rudi to Perry would cause a significant offensive falloff. Perry would be the only "rookie" starter on an already well-oiled offensive machine.

Contrast that with the situation on defense, which is far from a well-oiled machine, and which will see at least one rookie starter in Pollack, and three more rooks or near-rooks, Odell, Askew, and Ratliff, all being counted on to significantly upgrade our defensive performance. What's more likely is a heaping helping of rookie mistakes, since we're counting on newbies versus vets for almost all our improvement.

Given that scenario, I would have much rather taken my chances with Perry and used Rudi's money to shore up the defense with some vets. You prefer what the Bengals did. Fine. But if it doesn't work out...and I've grave doubts...don't expect any tea and sympathy from me.

As to your continuing assertion that Marvin deliberately drafted Perry as a backup, I can only say that if true -- and I don't believe for a moment that it is -- then I have to get some retroactive props to Mike Brown. He may have made many, many terrible draft day decisions, but he always went after a starter in the first round. He was never stupid enough to intentionally p*ss away his top selection on a backup.

[Kirkendall]

Show me where I'm "dinging" Rudi? (You're welcome to try, too, kirk.)

I'm not accusing you.

[HoosierCat]

Show me where I'm "dinging" Rudi? (You're welcome to try, too, kirk.)

I'm not accusing you.

I stand corrected.

[Kirkendall]

I was being very generalistic. I wasn't trying to intervene on your guys' debate. It just kinda popped (or as Billy says, hampster "poop" ) in my head that there is some general dislike the Bengals have Rudi now.

[HairOnFire]

What I don't like is his price tag. Given the seamless transition from Dillon to Rudi -- which speaks volumes about the overall caliber of our offense -- it's unlikley a change from Rudi to Perry would cause a significant offensive falloff.

I think I'd call it a significant falloff going from a player who set the franchise rushing record to a player who gained a single yard before disappearing into the trainers room. There's nothing seamless about that, right? So forgive me for thinking that just because Rudi proved himself capable that doesn't guarantee that Chris Perry can repeat his performance.

As for Rudi's price, your biggest complaint seems to center around a desire to use the money paid to RJ for defensive help....ignoring the fact that Rudi has already paid dividends on that score. He not only made it feasible for this team to rid itself of a locker room cancer but his proven production made the idea of trading Dillon incredibly attractive. And that move resulted in the addition of a new starter on defense and a much needed backup on offense.

[jditty47]

i talk bad about rudi cuz im not satisfied with his performance. he needs alot of improving and i hope he does that this year. i have heard nothing about his offseason or how hes preparing for this season. i hope he busts out this year.

[HairOnFire]

Where? Show me where I'm "dinging" Rudi?

You're kidding? How many times do you get to claim that Rudi isn't worth his paycheck before it becomes a ding? How many times can you claim that a totally unproven back like Perry is superior to the single season franchise rushing record holder before it becomes a ding? And how many times can you propose that dumping Rudi and the contract he actually earned by producing is the perfect solution for every remaining weakness this team has?

Gimme a break.

[HairOnFire]

i talk bad about rudi cuz im not satisfied with his performance. he needs alot of improving and i hope he does that this year.

One of the funniest things I've ever read from the Rudi bashers was on that other board. Something along the lines of....

"The Bengals need to back away from the bargaining table now that Rudi just rushed for over 200 yards against the Browns. This isn't the time to attempt getting a new deal done."

Sorry, that kind of thinking just cracks me up.

[DontPushMe]

Where? Show me where I'm "dinging" Rudi?

You're kidding? How many times do you get to claim that Rudi isn't worth his paycheck before it becomes a ding? How many times can you claim that a totally unproven back like Perry is superior to the single season franchise rushing record holder before it becomes a ding? And how many times can you propose that dumping Rudi and the contract he actually earned by producing is the perfect solution for every remaining weakness this team has?

Gimme a break.

You rudi johnson fans cling to that single season rushing record like its your first born son. Anytime someone is trieng to defend rudi, they dont talk about his performance on the feild, nah, they talk about how hes the "single season rushing record holder." What they fail to mention/notice is that it took him 60 more carries to beat Dillon's record by 30 yards. That is over 2 extra games worth of carries, and 30 yards to show for it. Theres a difference between productive and efficient. Sure 1400 rushing yards is production, but is 11 games under 4 yards per carry efficient? I think not.

As for bashing RJ, nah not really, we just see him for what he really is. It seems like bashing because you guys are blind fans of the guy. Remember, Palmer had proven just as much as Perry had last year at this time when everyone applauded the choice of starting him over Kit. You guys just overvalue RJs ability because you are fans of him. Either for making the bengal legend you guys hate for some reason expendable, or for being the 'underdog' - a player with minimal talent who still put up some ok numbers in the NFL, or because hes a nice guy. One reason or another you think hes better then he is. The unbias opinion is that he is a mediocre starting RB. Nothing more, nothing less. While Chris Perry has the ability to be far more. Its just like when kit was the starter, he was saying stuff like "palmer makes throws i could never dream of", well, perry has the ability to make runs that rudi could never dream of. Just wait untill he gets his chance to prove it.

[Kirkendall]

You guys just overvalue RJs ability because you are fans of him.

Wha? Fans of a player that plays for the Bengals? Wha?

[TJJackson]

.....you guys are blind fans of the guy.

And if anyone on this earth knows something about being a "blind fan", that'd be DPM, who at this moment is probably overbidding on one of Corey's used handkerchiefs on EBay.

[HoosierCat]

So forgive me for thinking that just because Rudi proved himself capable that doesn't guarantee that Chris Perry can repeat his performance.

In his first two years here, Rudi totalled about 100 yards rushing and receiving...yet when Dillon got hurt in 2003 he stepped in and revved right up. As I've said before, if we can take a 4th round pick and make him a star, we can do the same with a 1st round selection. No, there are no guarantees, but given the benefits of bulking up the D, I thought it an acceptable risk.

As for Rudi's price, your biggest complaint seems to center around a desire to use the money paid to RJ for defensive help....ignoring the fact that Rudi has already paid dividends on that score.

I'm not ignoring that. But our defense is still far from good enough. More of those "dividends" could have been had.

How many times do you get to claim that Rudi isn't worth his paycheck before it becomes a ding?

Never said that. In fact, I've stated I thought his contract's value -- which puts him in the top 11-15 paid backs range -- dead on to his abilities. I've never said he isn't worth what he's getting. I would simply prefer that he got it elsewhere.

How many times can you claim that a totally unproven back like Perry is superior to the single season franchise rushing record holder before it becomes a ding?

Never said that, either. Only that I believe Perry has the potential to be a better back. What, there can never be a better back than Rudi?

And how many times can you propose that dumping Rudi and the contract he actually earned by producing is the perfect solution for every remaining weakness this team has?

Never said that either. I thought it would be a good solution to the need to shift spending to the defensive side of the ball, something Marvin has repeatedly said the Bengals need to do. And thanks to the salary cap, it's a zero-sum game: if you're going to spend more on defense, you have less to spend on offense. With Perry in the wings, Rudi was the most logical choice; the only expensive weapon we could afford to lose.

[jditty47]

Where? Show me where I'm "dinging" Rudi?

You're kidding? How many times do you get to claim that Rudi isn't worth his paycheck before it becomes a ding? How many times can you claim that a totally unproven back like Perry is superior to the single season franchise rushing record holder before it becomes a ding? And how many times can you propose that dumping Rudi and the contract he actually earned by producing is the perfect solution for every remaining weakness this team has?

Gimme a break.

You rudi johnson fans cling to that single season rushing record like its your first born son. Anytime someone is trieng to defend rudi, they dont talk about his performance on the feild, nah, they talk about how hes the "single season rushing record holder." What they fail to mention/notice is that it took him 60 more carries to beat Dillon's record by 30 yards. That is over 2 extra games worth of carries, and 30 yards to show for it. Theres a difference between productive and efficient. Sure 1400 rushing yards is production, but is 11 games under 4 yards per carry efficient? I think not.

As for bashing RJ, nah not really, we just see him for what he really is. It seems like bashing because you guys are blind fans of the guy. Remember, Palmer had proven just as much as Perry had last year at this time when everyone applauded the choice of starting him over Kit. You guys just overvalue RJs ability because you are fans of him. Either for making the bengal legend you guys hate for some reason expendable, or for being the 'underdog' - a player with minimal talent who still put up some ok numbers in the NFL, or because hes a nice guy. One reason or another you think hes better then he is. The unbias opinion is that he is a mediocre starting RB. Nothing more, nothing less. While Chris Perry has the ability to be far more. Its just like when kit was the starter, he was saying stuff like "palmer makes throws i could never dream of", well, perry has the ability to make runs that rudi could never dream of. Just wait untill he gets his chance to prove it.

good post dpm. *high five*

[Kirkendall]

Not really. He just tells us why he dislikes Rudi. Big Whoop.

[HairOnFire]

Sure 1400 rushing yards is production, but is 11 games under 4 yards per carry efficient? I think not.

Would this be the right time to remind you of how often you've mention Chris Perry's 34 yards of total production and his half yard per carry rush average?

[HairOnFire]

...well, perry has the ability to make runs that rudi could never dream of. Just wait untill he gets his chance to prove it.

We've been waiting. Probably going to have to wait alot longer. Who knows, maybe we'll have to wait forever.

Meanwhile, on the message boards...the legend of Chris Perry grows ever larger. Yup, even before producing his second rushing yard as an NFL player he's already considered better than a top 15 running back. Go figure.

Chris Perry = Paper Tiger

[HairOnFire]

As I've said before, if we can take a 4th round pick and make him a star, we can do the same with a 1st round selection. No, there are no guarantees, but given the benefits of bulking up the D, I thought it an acceptable risk.

Funny thing about that, the team that actually drafted Perry didn't agree with you. And neither did I.

However, in your defense it should be noted that you've got the likes of DPM onboard with you....so I guess you've got that going for you.

[HairOnFire]

Never said that. In fact, I've stated I thought his contract's value -- which puts him in the top 11-15 paid backs range -- dead on to his abilities. I've never said he isn't worth what he's getting. I would simply prefer that he got it elsewhere.

Again, the team that drafted Perry didn't agree with your opinions about discarding Rudi. True, both you and the team agreed on Rudi's contract worth, but the people who know Perry best didn't have the faith in him that allowed them to consider letting Rudi leave. Got that? 'Cause it's important. When pushy came to shove Perry wasn't considered starting material. The team weighed ALL of the factors and felt it had to re-sign Rudi and they did so at a price you agree he's worth. So why all the bitching?

Oh yeah, your fantasy didn't pan out. Bummer.

[DontPushMe]

Sure 1400 rushing yards is production, but is 11 games under 4 yards per carry efficient? I think not.

Would this be the right time to remind you of how often you've mention Chris Perry's 34 yards of total production and his half yard per carry rush average?

The only time i mention his 34 total yards is when someone like you falsely says he gained 1 yard all year. I dont walk around saying he gained 34 yards as if its a huge accomplishment, i only say it to correct people who like to diss him by saying he gained 1 yard all year.

But nice job avoiding the arguement itself and taking the easy way out.

[HairOnFire]

You guys just overvalue RJs ability because you are fans of him. Either for making the bengal legend you guys hate for some reason expendable, or for being the 'underdog' - a player with minimal talent who still put up some ok numbers in the NFL, or because hes a nice guy.

Well lets go down the list of why RJ made a Bengal legend expendable, an act that made DPM engage in a hissy fit worthy of any jilted teenage lover.

First, Dillon himself made his trade a desirable outcome by refusing to embrace the new coach, constantly refusing to assume a team leadership role, acting like a pouting cancer in the lockerroom, and by acting like a jerk in the press. The last straw came when he saw another player outperforming him, promting his stupid trade demand in the midst of a playoff push.

Quite frankly, the success Corey Dillon has had in the NFL almost guarantees that he will never act like a man. Regardless, it was Dillons own actions made him unworthy of consideration as person ANY team could be built around. Simply put, as a human being Corey Dillon is a loser who has to be propped up by a roster full of winners to remain in control of his own emotions.

Second, as miserable a human being as Corey Dillon is most teams could justify his presence on the roster simply based upon his skills as a RB. On that score alone having Corey Dillon was a positive. However, when it became clear that the Bengals could get equal or even superior production from another player then it became just as obvious that Dillon was finally expendable. And yes, Dillon has said as much.

So in the end, it isn't a matter of Rudi having minimal talent or nice guy qualitites. Instead, it's a combination of comparable talent and superior character that make Rudi a superior RB when compared to Dillon.

[HairOnFire]

I dont walk around saying he gained 34 yards as if its a huge accomplishment, i only say it to correct people who like to diss him by saying he gained 1 yard all year.

But he did only gain one yard rushing, right? Despite all of his potential and his lofty draft standing he managed only one yard rushing. Man, how does that happen? You'd think those type of things would make for a seamless transition, ehh? And yet somehow this one-yard FACT is to be ignored just because you feel Perry could start...if healthy...which he never seems to be.

You know, I have to wonder how impressed Pete Prisco would be after hearing the Bengals were going to start an injured player who had gained one entire rushing yard in the NFL? You think he'd raise or drop the Bengals in his rankings? After all, dumping Rudi in favor of a one-yard wonder would eliminate that pesky status quo argument Joisey and you keep propping up.

[HoosierCat]

As I've said before, if we can take a 4th round pick and make him a star, we can do the same with a 1st round selection. No, there are no guarantees, but given the benefits of bulking up the D, I thought it an acceptable risk.

Funny thing about that, the team that actually drafted Perry didn't agree with you. And neither did I.

And of course, neither you nor the Bengals have ever been wrong...

So why all the bitching?

What bitching? I haven't said one bad word about Rudi, or about the decision to sign him, or about the price paid -- contrary to your assertions. Just setting the record straight, that's all.

[HoosierCat]

that pesky status quo argument

Yes, the truth is a b*tch, ain't it?

[HairOnFire]

What bitching? I haven't said one bad word about Rudi, or about the decision to sign him, or about the price paid -- contrary to your assertions. Just setting the record straight, that's all.

So that wasn't you that said that you agreed Rudi was worth the contract he signed but wished he had signed it somewhere else?

Sure it was.

Sheesh, it's in this very thread.