Braham

[TJJackson]

The relative silence about Rich Braham's health (ok, not silence exactly, but "we'll have to see how it goes" and etc) is probably the most disturbing thing from my point of view in the post-draft offseason. Oh sure, there are the concerns about Webster, Hardy, and Warrick but I don't think the club is impacted much wether they remain or they go. Rich Braham on the other hand is another story entirely.

Since we failed to draft a Center last year, it's time to groom one now, but during the grooming process we need someone snapping the ball to Carson. Do we want a rookie protecting our multi-million dollar quarterback right off the bat? I don't think so. On the other hand, if Braham isn't healthy enough to go his year, we currently have a journeyman (Larry Moore) and two talented rookies (Guy-chek and Wilkerson). Fontenot (or other FA centers) may or may not be available.

Other than simply opening the overall discussion of Braham and the center position in this topic, I specifically have started to think that the Bengals might be thinking along the lines of bringing Braham back as a COACH (asst offensive line coach) rather than a player. Here's why

1) We do want him to tutor the rookies. Of this I am certain.

2) Coach salary contract doesn't have the big minimums a 10-yr veteran player contract does.

3) By the fact that he'd be under contract for 2005 (albeit as a coach) the Bengals would be in a great position to sign him as a player should his health sufficiently improve and the need arise.

That said, it'd still be the best of all worlds from my POV for him to come back HEALTHY as our starting center while the rookies develop. No doubt. But if he can't get healthy by the start of the trainign camp, why not consider hiring him as a asst coach?

[jrandom42]

From Bengals.com

Braham hopeful

Braham, 34, expects his negotiations for a one-year deal to speed up fairly quickly now that the draft is over and he has been cleared medically. Braham, who missed the last three games with a broken bone near his knee, said he got the OK from the doctor last week.

He said he still wants to play and has the sense the Bengals want him. But he isn’t surprised in the least that he’ll have two centers behind him who were in grade school when he joined the Bengals in 1994.

“It would have happened the last two years if the guys they wanted were still around,” said Braham of the recent drafts. “They have to do that if they want to get guys who can play for the future.

“Unless you draft a guy real early, it’s tough for him to come in as a rookie and play.”

With another season, Braham becomes the 12th player to play at least 12 years as a Bengal and the fifth offensive linemen in joining Anthony Munoz and Joe Walter (13), and Bob Johnson and Bruce Kozerski with 12.

[HoosierCat]

That said, it'd still be the best of all worlds from my POV for him to come back HEALTHY as our starting center while the rookies develop. No doubt. But if he can't get healthy by the start of the trainign camp, why not consider hiring him as a asst coach?

Funny, I had the exact same thought earlier today. Bring him back for camp and preseason, and if it looks like one of the young'uns can go...or that Larry Moore can hold the fort until they're up to speed...cut Braham and hire him as an assistant o-line coach. Heck, with Alexander being o-line and assistant head coach, I'm sure he could use the help.

[TJJackson]

I guess hearing that he has been cleared medically doesn't have the same meaning to me as "he has been signed" or "he has agreed to terms".

It also doesn't have the same meaning to me as "he is at 100%", ie he has all his strength, conditioning, and mobility back.

So bottom line, I did read the posting on bengals.com when it came out, but it didn't exactly leave me all warm and fuzzy on the ultimate question of whether Richie Braham will play C for the Bengals this year.

[Jet23]

That said, it'd still be the best of all worlds from my POV for him to come back HEALTHY as our starting center while the rookies develop.  No doubt.  But if he can't get healthy by the start of the trainign camp, why not consider hiring him as a asst coach?

Funny, I had the exact same thought earlier today. Bring him back for camp and preseason, and if it looks like one of the young'uns can go...or that Larry Moore can hold the fort until they're up to speed...cut Braham and hire him as an assistant o-line coach. Heck, with Alexander being o-line and assistant head coach, I'm sure he could use the help.

I'm sorry, I don't see what Marvin, or anyone for that matter, sees in Paul Alexander. Other than high draft picks, who has this guy developed. Maybe we were spoiled with Jim McNally and his ability to mold later round picks into great lineman. I can't get past a few years ago when Alexander bragged that he had his dream line, when they turned out to be terrible that year. I just don't see it.

[TJJackson]

I kinda like the development of Steinbach

[HairOnFire]

I don't like saying what I'm about to because it's practically poking Joisey with a stick, but I'm guessing the question about whether Braham re-signs will come down to one thing only. Contract terms.

Simply put, if I'm the Bengals I'd be reluctant to offer more than the veteran minimum over two years. A handful of peanuts for a signing bonus. And if I'm Braham I might be reluctant to get off the soft couch for that.

[HoosierCat]

I don't like saying what I'm about to because it's practically poking Joisey with a stick, but I'm guessing the question about whether Braham re-signs will come down to one thing only. Contract terms.

Simply put, if I'm the Bengals I'd be reluctant to offer more than the veteran minimum over two years. A handful of peanuts for a signing bonus. And if I'm Braham I might be reluctant to get off the soft couch for that.

Why would you think I'd argue that? (Other than it's you saying it, that is? )

I agree, they aren't going to offer Braham much. I would be floored if they offered him a 2-year hitch, 1 is all I'd expect. They'll do the vet minimum thing (see http://espn.go.com/nfl/columns/clayton_john/1210115.html ) They'll offer him a 1-year deal for $750k with the $25k bonus and access to the bonus pool for playing time. So he'll end up making in the $1 million neighborhood but only count $450k vs. the cap.

Will that get him up off the couch? Who knows. But I seriously doubt if any other job is going to pay him a million bucks this year...

[HairOnFire]

Why would you think I'd argue that? (Other than it's you saying it, that is? )

Baby, who hurt you? It wasn't me. So what makes you act the way you do?

Nahhh, when I mentioned poking you with a stick it wasn't that I expected any sort of argument from you on this one. I just figured I had wandered on to your street when I started talking about a contract being the sole factor in whether a FA is signed.

Usually I see other factors playing a role, but not this time.

I imagine the Bengals still want Braham but only on their terms. And that's going to make it easy for Braham to walk away from the game if he wants to. Perhaps he doesn't, but I can't see the Bengals offering the deal that Braham was projected to get at the beginning of free agency. Those numbers were...2 year deal, 2 million in total salary, and a 2 million dollar signing bonus. So pick your deal breaker.

[HoosierCat]

Those numbers were...2 year deal, 2 million in total salary, and a 2 million dollar signing bonus.

Wow, who projected that? Even Hobson, in all his various "why we really don't have all that cap space espn says we have" articles only set aside $1 million to resign Braham (and given I never thought he'd get more than the vet minimum "discount" deal outlined above I argued that was $500k too high).

At most, I could see them doing something like a 2 year, 2 million deal with minimum salaries in both years ($750k) and a $500k signing bonus.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I kinda like the development of Steinbach

Guys like Steinbach and Willie and Levi (who's an average LT) came right in and started and were expected to as high round picks. They never needed development.

It's the mid-round guys McNally always developed that Alexander has not done even once.

I remember reading stories about ex-Bengal lineman laughing at Alexander's coaching, or lack thereof...granted that was years ago.

Pretty much everyone considered his alum draft picks this year as "reaches," although I am not too unhappy with the picks because that area needed to be addressed.

But this is another case where Bengal coaches are relied upon too heavily when it comes to scouting and drafting. And Alexander has survived due to the drafting of some great RB's that make his unit look better than they are.

[HairOnFire]

Wow, who projected that?

Who knows? Considering the comments you say Hobson has made my first guess would be ESPN.

Sorry, I remember reading those figures when free agency started but I never save anything. Too damn lazy I guess. But I do recall they came from a listing of available free agents that also speculated on what their salary demands would likely be. At the time I thought they were as out of line as you seem to think, but the reasoning was based upon Braham being the best available center from a very bad group. Months later, that ship seems to be incapable of sailing.

Ignoring the above for a moment, your numbers are much closer to what I think the Bengals offer will be. They're pretty comparable to the deals he's always been forced to settle for, right? That said, I think they're marginal enough that Braham might be tempted to just call it a day. In fact, he actually admitted after signing his last contract that he strongly considered doing just that.

And no, I didn't save that article either.

[HoosierCat]

Sorry, I remember reading those figures when free agency started but I never save anything.

No biggie, wasn't looking for a link. From your description, sounds like Pat Kirwan over at nfl.com. He's been doing regular "best FA available" columns and Braham has been his No. 1 center since day 1.

And yeah, I can see how Braham might call it a career. OTOH, if the Bengals do come waving a million bucks in his face, that's kinda hard to turn down. Especially with all these youngsters to spell you, a kick-butt offense, a defence that at least on paper looks decent...shoot, might be nice to see 1 playoff game in a 12-year career, eh? And who knows? There's actually some talent and decent coaching in Cincy these days; maybe you get stupid lucky and retire with one of them Super Bowl ringy-thingys.

[schweinhart]

1 playoff game in 12 years would be something.

Braham proly thought he still had a crack at the post-season vs. Patriots last year when he was laying on the ground w/ a cracked kneecap. Maybe that's why he got back up and got back in the game.

If anybody deserves $1-million who might not start it's Braham.