Mel Kiper's Grade

[membengal]

It's stuck over on Inisider on espn.com, but he gave the Bengals an A-.

Here's the Bengals piece, I don't want to paste the whole article, because that would be wrong...:

"Cincinnati Bengals: A-

Defensive end David Pollack and linebacker Odell Thurman were teammates at Georgia and are immediate upgrades for the front seven on Marvin Lewis' defense. The Bengals helped the offensive line with another pair of teammates, center Eric Ghiaciuc and tackle Adam Kieft from Central Michigan, and thanks to his great physical attributes receiver Chris Henry is a good gamble in the third round despite some character questions. Fellow wideout Tab Perry was a sensible pick in the sixth."

[BengalszoneBilly]

First time ever I've agreed with this guy!

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

First time ever I've agreed with this guy!

Helmethair seems to like Marvin's Bengals!

[DontPushMe]

yup, A- seems about right, great draft imo, and some of the UFAs we have signed have made it even better, great job Mike Brown & co

[Indycat]

AFC North

Baltimore Ravens: A

Receiver Mark Clayton is a perfect fit and defensive end Dan Cody is a nice pass rusher who could be effective off the edge. Tackle Adam Terry is a good athlete and will team with center Jason Brown to add some depth along the offensive line, and the Ravens got the best fullback in the draft in Justin Green. The struggles and inconsistency of quarterback Derek Anderson have been well-documented but he has physical skills and could develop into a decent passer.

Cincinnati Bengals: A-

Defensive end David Pollack and linebacker Odell Thurman were teammates at Georgia and are immediate upgrades for the front seven on Marvin Lewis' defense. The Bengals helped the offensive line with another pair of teammates, center Eric Ghiaciuc and tackle Adam Kieft from Central Michigan, and thanks to his great physical attributes receiver Chris Henry is a good gamble in the third round despite some character questions. Fellow wideout Tab Perry was a sensible pick in the sixth.

Cleveland Browns: B

You can't argue with the Browns taking the best player available at No. 3 in Braylon Edwards even though they have other needs. If safety Brodney Pool gets back to the stellar form he showed as a sophomore he will pan out nicely; corner Antonio Perkins will be a nickel back who can also contribute in the return game; and quarterback Charlie Frye has the skills you want in a quarterback despite the fact that he throws a wobbly ball on occasion. Andrew Hoffman will be plugged in to fill a need at nose tackle.

Pittsburgh Steelers: C+

Heath Miller is a big-time upgrade at tight end and corner Bryan McFadden is the kind of tough, aggressive run supporter Steelers coach Bill Cowher likes. Offensive lineman Trai Essex was a reach, receiver Fred Gibson needs to bulk up a bit and linebacker Rian Wallace needs to get stronger. Noah Herron is a backup-type running back, but guard Chris Kemoeatu was a nice find in the sixth round and could even try to play nose tackle after logging some time there in college.

[princeton]

if I don't believe Kiper's negative comments, then I can't really believe his positive ones.

Pittsburgh's draft intrigues me. If Miller become Heap-like (and Winslow isn't a huge bust for the Browns), then Cincy will be the only team in the division without a major TE. In a way, that makes it easier to defend each team

Pollack will hopefully be a handful for any of those guys to block, but a much bigger question is who's going to defend against the TE?

[bengalboy40]

if I don't believe Kiper's negative comments, then I can't really believe his positive ones.

Pittsburgh's draft intrigues me. If Miller become Heap-like (and Winslow isn't a huge bust for the Browns), then Cincy will be the only team in the division without a major TE. In a way, that makes it easier to defend each team

Pollack will hopefully be a handful for any of those guys to block, but a much bigger question is who's going to defend against the TE?

pollack...

[Dadraftnick]

If anyone gave the Bengals an A- for this draft they have been drinking the bong water.According to the Bengals they got 1 starter out of this draft and that Pollack.Pollack runs a 4.81 and thats slow as hell for a Lb.They said that Johnson is the starting MLB ,not Crowder.The center they drafted may start down the road but they dont even think he can start now.Everybody else looks like lucky to make the team next year.

[brian5562]

1st of all we drafted Thurman not Crowder. 2nd even thought these guys might not start doesn't mean they won't make an impact in their rookie year. Also the draft is about getting players for the future not for the now. We just haven't realized that as Bengal fans before now.

[Whur CHad At?]

Ya dadraftnick have you even been paying attention for the last couple days??

[alleycat]

Pollack runs a 4.81 and thats slow as hell for a Lb.

Just want to point out again for those who seem to KEEP MISSING the point about football speed and quickness, that Pollack is one of the quicker players in the WHOLE DRAFT as far as his short shuttle time and quickness drills. That's the drill where they run back and forth between cones (a lot like what a linebacker does weaving through traffick, if you've ever played the game). Kirwan wrote a piece on NFL.com on quickness and Pollack was #2 among EVERYONE in the draft. If Pollack is running 40 yards to make his tackles, we're already screwed. If he's gotta explode 10 - 20 yards to the sideline and bring somebody down, he'll be there. (BTW, not to be picky but his 40 was a 4.75)

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/8313818

[Dadraftnick]

I meant to say Thurman- not Crowder I was on Ebay at the same time I posted that-SORRY.I love Pollack as a DE.I wanted Pollack in the draft.The Bengals have needed a pass rush DE for 15 years.The point is if they make him a LB they still wont have a pass rusher.Why draft Thurman with the 2nd pick if he is going to sit on the bench??????Why draft Pollack with the number 1 pick to replace Hardy because he's too slow .When Pollack is slow for a LB.If You Believe the Bengals they have managed to draft 1 starter out of 7 picks.That is Dave Shula kind of stuff.The 2 WR's they took at 3 and 6 are #6 and #7 on the Depth chart.Last year they drafted a waste pick WR and lost him Off of the practice squad.This team went to the draft with HOLES to fill.You dont waste a Pick on someone that you want to be on the bench especially in the 2nd and 3rd .I Promise you that most teams draft looking for a starter with every pick.NOT lets take Thurman in the 2nd he can be a good back up.Last year everyone was sure what a steal Caleb Miller was.Before he ever gets much of a chance to play you draft his replacement with a 2nd round pick after you spent a 3rd on Miller last year.Miller's butt can get splinters just as good as Thurmans can.If They Replace Johnson With Thurman they still have wasted a 3rd round pick last year.The Bengals went into the draft and needed DE,C,OLB,DT,S RB .I'm not too sure they filled any of those holes.But they need starters in those positions. They did not need any WR's and got 2.They did not need(according to Marvin) a Starting MLB.So why waste a 2nd round pick if this guy isn't stat???????

[turningpoint]

Whoa dad draft nick r u crazy?

we drafted 4 possible starters...in our 1st 4 rounds.

Pollack is our OLB starter along with simmons opening day.so bea ready to cheer him on.

If webster doesn;t recover i see Odell taking over the middle.....that man is a run support hawk.

Chris Henry..he could easily be our #2 wr in 2 years....it took chad over a year and a half to develop..watch this guy develop,he;s a star in the making buddy,and will dominate under the guidence of chad and our wr coach.

Our 4th round pick whose our center could possibly be our opening day started, if we don;t resign richie braham.....and will be a start i bet u by week 10.

What if Brahm goes down? what r we going to do then? perfect round 4 pick.

We need depth at OT and we found it in a big man that looks to be ready to learn the POS.

Perry the 5th round wr is gona be a "starter" a starter on the other side of our football team..that's special teams,and you wil see him make play after play....no such thing a punt by rendal EL over 8yds anymore with him being our gunner.

He will also be great on kick offs....so you really need to calm down, this daft was rated an A for a reason.

We got depth everywhere we needed it buddy.

[bengalindian]

I meant to say Thurman- not Crowder I was on Ebay at the same time I posted that-SORRY.I love Pollack as a DE.I wanted Pollack in the draft.The Bengals have needed a pass rush DE for 15 years.The point is if they make him a LB they still wont have a pass rusher.Why draft Thurman with the 2nd pick if he is going to sit on the bench??????Why draft Pollack with the number 1 pick to replace Hardy because he's too slow .When Pollack is slow for a LB.If You Believe the Bengals they have managed to draft 1 starter out of 7 picks.That is Dave Shula kind of stuff.The 2 WR's they took at 3 and 6 are #6 and #7 on the Depth chart.Last year they drafted a waste pick WR and lost him Off of the practice squad.This team went to the draft with HOLES to fill.You dont waste a Pick on someone that you want to be on the bench especially in the 2nd and 3rd .I Promise you that most teams draft looking for a starter with every pick.NOT lets take Thurman in the 2nd he can be a good back up.Last year everyone was sure what a steal Caleb Miller was.Before he ever gets  much of a chance to play you draft  his replacement with a 2nd round pick after you spent a 3rd on Miller last year.Miller's butt can get splinters just as good as Thurmans can.If They Replace Johnson With Thurman they still have wasted a 3rd round pick last year.The Bengals went into the draft and needed DE,C,OLB,DT,S RB .I'm not too sure they filled any of those holes.But they need starters in those positions. They did not need any WR's and got 2.They did not need(according to Marvin) a Starting MLB.So why waste a 2nd round pick if this guy isn't stat???????

First of all, Webster's condition is unknown, and if he can't start, then Odell Thurmann is a perfect pick. The fact that Pollack can play both OLB and DE is a bonus, not a negative. The two WRs drafted, if nothing else, are gonna push the others on the rosters to improve. If Kelly, for example, doesn't improve, Marvin is telling him that he will and CAN be replaced. Maurice Mann was a good pick, but did not make the team because he pushed the other WRs (Housh), but was picked up because he was GOOD.

If you have any questions, please refer to the upcoming season, and get at me next April, when the Bengals are going to pick in the high 20s/32.

[ArmyBengal]

Say what you will about rookies not making an impact and it being about the future, but did we already forget last year ?? How many rookies made HUGE impacts, especially on the D side of the ball ?? Madieu, Ratliff, Landon, Jumpy Jr., come on now... I have to think once again our coaches know more about this than I and the majority of us on this board, but then again, what do you think Chris ???

I'm happy as hell and am loving the undrafted FAs to this point !!! Most were calling for the playoffs this year "BEFORE" the draft, we get some added help with our defense (Might not be PERFECT), but help none the less and now we question our ability to make the playoffs ?? WTF ?? I'm sticking with the whole trust in ML, as I'm sure he knows more than myself !!!

WHODEY !!!

[Sox]

We needed help against the run,and we drafted two guys who will be absolute beasts against it.

We also now have both depth AND quality at LB.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Say what you will about rookies not making an impact and it being about the future, but did we already forget last year ?? How many rookies made HUGE impacts, especially on the D side of the ball ?? Madieu, Ratliff, Landon, Jumpy Jr., come on now... I have to think once again our coaches know more about this than I and the majority of us on this board, but then again, what do you think Chris ???

Marvin and his staff pick WINNERS. Shut up and watch and enjoy the next great draft for our team.

And how many of those rookies, this time last year, INCLUDING MADIEU, did we think the same thing of? Didn't a lot of people think Madieu was a reach? And Ratliff? Oh, and did we really need TWO linebackers in the same round?

[ArmyBengal]

Say what you will about rookies not making an impact and it being about the future, but did we already forget last year ??  How many rookies made HUGE impacts, especially on the D side of the ball ??  Madieu, Ratliff, Landon, Jumpy Jr., come on now...  I have to think once again our coaches know more about this than I and the majority of us on this board, but then again, what do you think Chris ???

Marvin and his staff pick WINNERS.  Shut up and watch and enjoy the next great draft for our team.

And how many of those rookies, this time last year, INCLUDING MADIEU, did we think the same thing of? Didn't a lot of people think Madieu was a reach? And Ratliff? Oh, and did we really need TWO linebackers in the same round?

I think I'm agreeeing with you here if you are saying our Rookies "last" year produced and our Rookies "this" year can produce !!! Oh yeah, I didn't write the part about Marvin and his staff pick WINNERS, so I was misquoted, but I do agree !!

WHODEY !!!

[Bobcat Bengal]

I meant to say Thurman- not Crowder I was on Ebay at the same time I posted that-SORRY.I love Pollack as a DE.I wanted Pollack in the draft.The Bengals have needed a pass rush DE for 15 years.The point is if they make him a LB they still wont have a pass rusher.Why draft Thurman with the 2nd pick if he is going to sit on the bench??????Why draft Pollack with the number 1 pick to replace Hardy because he's too slow .When Pollack is slow for a LB.If You Believe the Bengals they have managed to draft 1 starter out of 7 picks.That is Dave Shula kind of stuff.The 2 WR's they took at 3 and 6 are #6 and #7 on the Depth chart.Last year they drafted a waste pick WR and lost him Off of the practice squad.This team went to the draft with HOLES to fill.You dont waste a Pick on someone that you want to be on the bench especially in the 2nd and 3rd .I Promise you that most teams draft looking for a starter with every pick.NOT lets take Thurman in the 2nd he can be a good back up.Last year everyone was sure what a steal Caleb Miller was.Before he ever gets  much of a chance to play you draft  his replacement with a 2nd round pick after you spent a 3rd on Miller last year.Miller's butt can get splinters just as good as Thurmans can.If They Replace Johnson With Thurman they still have wasted a 3rd round pick last year.The Bengals went into the draft and needed DE,C,OLB,DT,S RB .I'm not too sure they filled any of those holes.But they need starters in those positions. They did not need any WR's and got 2.They did not need(according to Marvin) a Starting MLB.So why waste a 2nd round pick if this guy isn't stat???????

The sky is falling. Happens every time round these parts like clockwork.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

I think I'm agreeeing with you here if you are saying our Rookies "last" year produced and our Rookies "this" year can produce !!! Oh yeah, I didn't write the part about Marvin and his staff pick WINNERS, so I was misquoted, but I do agree !!

WHODEY !!!

Woops. Uh I typed that in the wrong box

These guys are good football guys. It's going to be fun watching them develop. Hopefully they won't be thrown to the wolves like all our rookies last year who produced BECAUSE THEY HAD TO DUE TO INJURY. Hopefully they will win their jobs and not inherit them.

[ArmyBengal]

You actually believe everything ML says to the media ?? I also think our needs were / are a bit off, but once again this is ones opinion. If you aren't privy to the conversations that take place between the coaches and the owner, chances are you might be talking out the back side of your ass. How about a little faith in the people getting paid to do their jobs and quit being so freakin critical ?? It will be OK, holy hell...

WHODEY !!!

[cincykent]

Say what you will about rookies not making an impact and it being about the future, but did we already forget last year ?? How many rookies made HUGE impacts, especially on the D side of the ball ?? Madieu, Ratliff, Landon, Jumpy Jr., come on now... I have to think once again our coaches know more about this than I and the majority of us on this board, but then again, what do you think Chris ???

I'm happy as hell and am loving the undrafted FAs to this point !!! Most were calling for the playoffs this year "BEFORE" the draft, we get some added help with our defense (Might not be PERFECT), but help none the less and now we question our ability to make the playoffs ?? WTF ?? I'm sticking with the whole trust in ML, as I'm sure he knows more than myself !!!

WHODEY !!!

I have to agree a little bit with dadraftnick. We didn't fill any needs in the secondary and D-line. And by drafting more WRs then Marvin is admitting he made a mistake drafting Washington. I thought he was suppose to be the other WR opposite Chad. I read that Marvin was considering moving some of the corners over to safety. Why did we spend a 6th round pick on another WR to play ST? They could have picked a safety there to do the same thing. I love the first 5 picks and I anticipate a playoff birth this year.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

I have to agree a little bit with dadraftnick. We didn't fill any needs in the secondary and D-line. And by drafting more WRs then Marvin is admitting he made a mistake drafting Washington. I thought he was suppose to be the other WR opposite Chad. I read that Marvin was considering moving some of the corners over to safety. Why did we spend a 6th round pick on another WR to play ST? They could have picked a safety there to do the same thing. I love the first 5 picks and I anticipate a playoff birth this year.

1. We didn't fill any needs in the secondary because the value wasn't there. Instead of reaching we took guys at other positions of need. This draft was weak at the safety position, so everyone talked up the guys who were there, even if they ain't all that. Or could it be that Marvin has faith in the guys in the secondary we have? Madieu did great last year. Ratliff has a ton of potential. James and O'neal had good years, not great, but good enough to send one of them to the pro bowl and the other to be close. Our secondary did pretty well last year, and we had some real gimp problems in the secondary. Maybe Marvin thinks Herring can get the job done, and didn't draft what YOU thought he needed.

2. By drafting more wideouts, Marvin isn't admitting to anything. Look at what acquiring Phillip Rivers last year did for Drew Brees' game. Drafting two wideouts, one of which was drafted as a kick returner because our kick return game blew goats last year is a sign to Russell to prepare for a fight in camp. Drafting Henry is a statement that we are not going to just give Washington the job either, he has to earn it. It's called making the pre-season roster COMPETITIVE. Competition breeds excellence. Kelly will have his shot, and most wideouts have their breakout years in year 3, and I expect no less of Washington. Besides, Warrick is probably not long for the roster according to all reports. Either his knee gets him cut during camp, or his salary gets him cut later.

3. Why spend a 6th round pck on a return specialist? We were #11 in punt returns, with an average punt return of less than 10 yards. We were 23rd in kick returns, averaging only 20.6 yards. The hidden yards being lost on our short kickoffs by Opie and our short returns by our return guys lost us games. You're right. We probably shouldn't have spent a 6th round pick on a special teams wideout who has potential to challenge for the 3rd receiver slot. We should have drafted someone much earlier.....

[ArmyBengal]

I think there is to much speculation to what ML is thinking or admitting to. To say he made a mistake with K-wash is a little off IMO. It's K-wash's third year, but even if he doesn't work out, there's no way we could've known that going into the draft then. There were injuries, yes, but he could still come on this year and produce to an extent that we relook the position again. Bottomline is, we just don't know what is going to happen with any of them and I'm not going to put words into any of the coaches mouths. Did the Bengals make a mistake with Rudi when we drafted C. Perry ?? All signs point to NO... Just my opinion again.

WHODEY !!!

[Dadraftnick]

A lot of you guys just refuse to look at reality.I used to hear guys like you calling into WLW and say what a grat QB Akili Smith was or,how Lebeau was ready to take them to the superbowl,ect.. I love the Bengals.I love Marvin as a coach.If they were in the Super Bowl or in the playoffs it would be different but, I see them blow it in the draft nearly every year.I just think this team needs a GM.I think what happens in the draft with their system is the offensive coordinator gets so many picks (hence WR's every year)and the def.cord. gets so many(LB's) and Mike Brown gets the final word.This is how you get this all screwed up.For example, there is no one to say, we need a starting safety so lets take one by the 4th round because all of the safety's good enough to start will be gone by our 5th pick.If the Bengals ever adress all of their needs and have quality starters at all positions I'll shut up.Thats when you start drafting back ups or trading their early picks for future early round picks.Thats why New england always seems to have a large number of picks in the first 4 rounds.This draft would have been OK if they didn't have all of these holes that didn't get filled.