Seahawks Sign Sharper

jjakq27 · April 12, 2005

Yeah 5 yr-$17.5 mill w/ a $1.5 mill SB
Who's the Ding Dong in charge of this outfit

Fruit Pie the Magician, the Hostess Pie Technician....

BengalByTheBay · April 12, 2005

I honestly don't know what to make of all this. The money does seem surprisingly low, but what strikes me is the 5 year contract. Not sure I'd want to enter into that long a contract with him, but again color me surprised that it's not over 2 mil/yr.

oldschooler · April 12, 2005

And people saying s**t about "the same ole Bungles"
or "Mike Brow did it"...well that burns my ass about like
a waist high flame .
All good. People are allowed their opinions.
Yeah they are...and my ass is allowed to burn from them.
Mike Brown was taught how to run an nfl team from his Dad (The Legend)
The players that were "busts" were high on every teams draft board.
And for every 1st round bust...look at the later round gems.
The Bengals had 4 coaches in the 13 years prior to Lewis` hiring.
That is a coach roughly every 4 years. So it`s not like he was happy
with the "status quo".
Like having Jeff Query as your best WR? Can anyone explain the Akili Smith pick? What about passing up the Saints ENTIRE draft class just to move up a few sports. Chris, you want to chime in on that one?
I think it's also telling that all the head coaches the Bengals post-Wyche and pre-Lewis, haven't become head coaches again. Perhaps that's a result of the players, but then again BROWN signs and draft the players.

Did I say that every move he made was a great 1 ?

I said he was "taught how to run a team from his DAD".

His Dad was considered a Legend was he not ?

If you were taught how to run the family business from your

dad ...I`m sure would try to run it exactly the way he did...

And you act like the Bengals were the only team to pass

up the Saints Deal... As far as Akili ...all 3 QB`s (Couch & Mcnabb)

were all considered to be a toss up...well seeing how Akili was

the only 1 left ...

And what about the 2001 draft ?

1st round Justin Smith

2d round Chad Johnson

4th round Rudi Johson

7th round T.J. Houshmandzadeh

That is the CORE of our offense and our best D-Lineman.

What about getting our all time leading rusher in the 2nd round

when we just drafted a "franchise" RB in 1995 ?

Yeah he made some "bad choices" ...but people seem to forget

the "good 1`s".

If you`re goig to blame Mike Brow for ALL of the bad...the it would

make sese to praise him for SOME of the good... <_<

HoosierCat · April 12, 2005

Yeah 5 yr-$17.5 mill w/ a $1.5 mill SB
Who's the Ding Dong in charge of this outfit
Fruit Pie the Magician, the Hostess Pie Technician....

jj, you are one sick puppy :lol:

(BTW love the Rudolph pics!)

membengal · April 13, 2005

Oldschooler and Hair...I am going to step out of the way, and let them vent, but, i am with you both. If you soldier on in this thread, good luck with the good fight.

HoosierCat · April 13, 2005

If you`re goig to blame Mike Brow for ALL of the bad...the it would
make sese to praise him for SOME of the good...

Amen. And I've never hesitated to give him credit where credit is due.

Or to blast him when the team does something dumb...like this Sharper thing looks.

oldschooler · April 13, 2005

They are $4 million under a $85 million cap and
still haven`t signed Braham or their draft picks !
How the hell does THAT = cheap ?
What does any of that have to do with anything? Braham, thanks to the cap-hit-reduction for long-time vets will cost nothing. Cap space for rooks won't be needed until May or June...by which time they will have a much better read on injured and rehabbing players. No cuts of significance have been made, anyhow...Hardy, Reggie Kelly, and Warrick are among the bigger names (and costs) who may end up on the outs.
As I said a while back in another thread -- and I believe you agreed with me -- cap space is no excuse. The Bengals have enough space right now to sign anyone they want. It's a question of will...and right now the Bengals appear to have all the willpower of an overweight virgin in a house of ill repute.

:huh:

They have $4 million in cap space and will be in damn good shape after

the June 1st cuts...maybe they wanted to sign Sharper and still have

enough for Braham without cutting some1 ?

Marvin put a price on Sharper`s worth to HIS TEAM and the Seahawks

exceeded it. That doesn`t make the Bengals "cheap" or mean that it

was "Mike Brown`s doing"...it means that exactly what Marvin said...

"we have to do right by ourselves.” <===good enough for me.

schweinhart · April 13, 2005

Yeah 5 yr-$17.5 mill w/ a $1.5 mill SB
Who's the Ding Dong in charge of this outfit
Fruit Pie the Magician, the Hostess Pie Technician....

If only it twere true :lol:

Seriously, I can see ML sliding off if he didn't think Sharpie could handle the MLB in a 4-3 but for that kinda coin the Seahawks reportedly gave him, I believe ML woulda packed Hardy's bags his own self to bring his old buddy in for a couple years.

This has got the stench of the Grand Fruit Pie himself.

Kirkendall · April 13, 2005

I'll give all the praise in the world to Mike Brown when this team has a winning season on his watch -- something his legendary father and mentor and teacher didn't have a problem with.

brooklyn_bengalfan · April 13, 2005

I believe that Marvin knew what Jamie was worth to the Bengals, and that's what the offer was for. I also feel that looking back at the way this played out, he knew which way Sharper was going to go when he named Landon the starter in the middle.

Anybody that wants to go off on the Bengals for not matching reasonable money, go right ahead. for me, I'm still trusting coach Lewis and his vision of the future.

BUT, if Coach Lewis was overruled on how much Sharper is worth...

Well then we've got much, much bigger problems.

HoosierCat · April 13, 2005

They have $4 million in cap space and will be in damn good shape after
the June 1st cuts...maybe they wanted to sign Sharper and still have
enough for Braham without cutting some1 ?
Marvin put a price on Sharper`s worth to HIS TEAM and the Seahawks
exceeded it. That doesn`t make the Bengals "cheap" or mean that it
was "Mike Brown`s doing"...it means that exactly what Marvin said...
"we have to do right by ourselves.” <===good enough for me.

:rolleyes: What didn't you understand? Braham will count less than $1 million vs. the cap thanks to the veteran discount. According to bengals.com Sharper's deal "appraoches" $4 million in year one. Shoot, let's say it's $4 million. That's $1.5 million ($300k prorated over 5 years) + a $2.5 million salary = $2.8 million cap hit. So Braham + Sharper are still well below the $4 million they have now...and rookie money won't be needed for months. (And if they'd signed Sharper you could kiss Hardy goodbye, opening up another $1.5-2 million in space.) This deal could have been done easy... <_<

Chucktkd · April 13, 2005

That's a low bonus and Marvin had made him an offer and knew that it was lower than what the Seahawks offered. There were also articles that said that several other teams were interested but he didn't even visit them. It seems unusual to me. Maybe there's something we don't know????

schweinhart · April 13, 2005

I sez bullscheister :angry:

There's still a couple of mediocre or less LBs in free agency and will be a few later after June 1 cuts.

On the flip side, not signing Sharper should give ML the shot at whatever inside backer he likes most at a given round, even if he don't pick one until Day 2.

Gimme Kirk Morrison :ph34r:

oldschooler · April 13, 2005

They have $4 million in cap space and will be in damn good shape after
the June 1st cuts...maybe they wanted to sign Sharper and still have
enough for Braham without cutting some1 ?
Marvin put a price on Sharper`s worth to HIS TEAM and the Seahawks
exceeded it. That doesn`t make the Bengals "cheap" or mean that it
was "Mike Brown`s doing"...it means that exactly what Marvin said...
"we have to do right by ourselves.” <===good enough for me.
What didn't you understand? Braham will count less than $1 million vs. the cap thanks to the veteran discount. According to bengals.com Sharper's deal "appraoches" $4 million in year one. Shoot, let's say it's $4 million. That's $1.5 million ($300k prorated over 5 years) + a $2.5 million salary = $2.8 million cap hit. So Braham + Sharper are still well below the $4 million they have now...and rookie money won't be needed for months. (And if they'd signed Sharper you could kiss Hardy goodbye, opening up another $1.5-2 million in space.) This deal could have been done easy...

Braham made $950,000 in '04 ...how do you figure

we`d get him for LESS than that ? :huh:

:rolleyes: And you must not have comprehended what I meant

when I said ...

Marvin put a price on Sharper`s worth to HIS TEAM and the Seahawks
exceeded it. That doesn`t make the Bengals "cheap" or mean that it
was "Mike Brown`s doing"...it means that exactly what Marvin said...
"we have to do right by ourselves.” <===good enough for me.

Read it out loud if you must.

turningpoint · April 13, 2005

SERIOUSLY WHY DO PEOPLE CARE SO MUCH AGBOUT AN OVER THE HILL LB!!!!!!!

GET OVER IT !!!!!!11

One thing i hate most about fellow bengal fans is they thinks its the end of the world, and then 2 days later Marvin does something amazing or makes the correct decision and it's noticed 6 months later and no1 says a damn thing....

seriously we need to get ya'll some prozac up in here.

ShulaSteakhouse · April 13, 2005

The Bengals could still use a better LB, at least one.

Miller, Webster and Hardy are either question marks or below average.

HoosierCat · April 13, 2005

oldschooler:

Braham made $950,000 in '04 ...how do you figure
we`d get him for LESS than that ?

Well, absent another team signing him, which doesn't appear to be happening, I have to think his options for finding a job paying him a million bucks a year are rather limited...don't you? :huh: But the point is that what he makes and his cap figure aren't the same in his case. The NFL changed the rules a couple years back so that vets who sign for the minimum per their years -- which is about said $950k in his case -- plus no more than (IIRC) a $25k bonus only count about half versus the cap. It was a "discount" designed to encourag3e teams not to toss vets away so quickly. So in terms of cap space he will cost us much less than his "real" number. But...even if you use the whole figure...we still aren't over our current cap number with him + Sharper.

Marvin put a price on Sharper`s worth to HIS TEAM and the Seahawks
exceeded it. That doesn`t make the Bengals "cheap" or mean that it
was "Mike Brown`s doing"...it means that exactly what Marvin said...
"we have to do right by ourselves.” <===good enough for me.

Bully for you. Like Schweinhart, I have a hard time believing that Marvin would not have moved heaven and earth to get Sharper for what the Seahawks paid. I think he's playing the good soldier. And that's good enough for me.

turningpoint:

SERIOUSLY WHY DO PEOPLE CARE SO MUCH AGBOUT AN OVER THE HILL LB!!!!!!!

Agreed. Cut Hardy!

HairOnFire · April 13, 2005

As I said a while back in another thread -- and I believe you agreed with me -- cap space is no excuse. The Bengals have enough space right now to sign anyone they want. It's a question of will...

I agree, cap space probably wasn't an issue. There were ways to make this happen. But it's never a question of doing something just because you can. You have to be willing to take the action needed as well as accept the consequences that move produces. And that leads us to a more familiar term...interest.

Let's not forget that you, me, and everyone who bothered commenting all questioned the Bengals level of interest as soon as the first media reports came out. Talk about a measured first strike, I actually wondered aloud why "deep" contract negotiations were so slow to begin. And the level of interest never really seemed to heat up, did it?

In fact, as things progressed most of us began to question the level of interest being shown...or not shown...by every team said to be involved. Cleveland did nothing but drop out, Dallas never stepped in, Minnesota did nothing beyond being linked to a fan message board, and despite being described as an also-ran to the bitter end I have to wonder what Jacksonville did to deserve that title. If they actually made an offer then it couldn't have been much to speak of. Ehhh?

HairOnFire · April 13, 2005

And if they'd signed Sharper you could kiss Hardy goodbye, opening up another $1.5-2 million in space.

Funny thing about that. Maybe Marvin doesn't want to cut Hardy as badly as local sportwriters and fans do.

Whur CHad At? · April 13, 2005

Sharper is not over the hill. He is one of the best LB's in the league. Ray Lewis is 30, is he over the hill-no didnt think so.

HairOnFire · April 13, 2005

Like Schweinhart, I have a hard time believing that Marvin would not have moved heaven and earth to get Sharper for what the Seahawks paid. I think he's playing the good soldier. And that's good enough for me.

Here's my biggest problem with the "Good Soldier" rant.

It's based entirely on a complete lack of evidence.

No kidding, if Marvin doesn't offer a peep of complaint it's immediately assumed that he wants to...but can't...because deep down he's just another neutered pup.

I've got a problem with that.

Kirkendall · April 13, 2005

In fact, as things progressed most of us began to question the level of interest being shown...or not shown...by every team said to be involved. Cleveland did nothing but drop out, Dallas never stepped in, Minnesota did nothing beyond being linked to a fan message board, and despite being described as an also-ran to the bitter end I have to wonder what Jacksonville did to deserve that title. If they actually made an offer then it couldn't have been much to speak of. Ehhh?

We're a month and a half into free agency with the draft less than 2 weeks away. Most teams are set with their gameplan in regards to LB. The Bengals, apparently are not.

HoosierCat · April 13, 2005

Cleveland did nothing but drop out, Dallas never stepped in, Minnesota did nothing beyond being linked to a fan message board, and despite being described as an also-ran to the bitter end I have to wonder what Jacksonville did to deserve that title. If they actually made an offer then it couldn't have been much to speak of. Ehhh?

Hard to say how real or imagined the interest was from the start. And every team will make choices based on their own situation. Baltimore, for example, was said to be interested in Sharper...but that appears to have stemmed from the loss of Hartwell, a backup, and they found Polley willing to take the vet minimum to fill in there.

For me, the questions run thus:

1. Would Sharper have made us better? I believe so.

2. Was the contract offered by the Seahawks unreasonable? Based on what we know so far (and note that yes, that is a caveat, we do not have anything approaching complete info, but based on what we know so far) the answer is no.

3. Would it have burst the Bengals cap? Again, based on current info, no.

So why isn't he a Bengal? If Marvin truly didn't think that much of adding him, why the visit, the Rudi pitch, the Marvin pitch, the meeting with Chuck, etc.? Why not the Jax-Dallas-Cleveland-SanFran-Baltimore-everyone-else-said-to-be-interested act???

I'm sorry, but this one sticks in my craw. It stinks. Going into this offseason I thought this team had a real shot at the big dance next year, and as the weeks go by it just seems to slip more and more away. After two years of good stuff, if -- and I still say "if" tho there's a growing part of me that wants to say "when" -- it all goes to heck, I hope no one will mind if I am really, really, really p*ssed off... <_<

Kirkendall · April 13, 2005

Here's my biggest problem with the "Good Soldier" rant.
It's based entirely on a complete lack of evidence.

As is the contrary.

jjakq27 · April 13, 2005

Yeah 5 yr-$17.5 mill w/ a $1.5 mill SB
Who's the Ding Dong in charge of this outfit
Fruit Pie the Magician, the Hostess Pie Technician....

jj, you are one sick puppy
(BTW love the Rudolph pics!)

Tried to find King Don but was afraid I'd get some gay website, so I left it at that.

The Rudolph pics are two-fold. One, it is in keeping with the Heat-Meister theme of the other day (Rankin and Bass Xmas movies) and second is the avatar is the Island of Misfit Toys. Somehow I feel like there is connection for all of us on Bengalszone.com. :lol:

As far as Sharper, I can't say what he really would bring to this team. I believe he is a definite upgrade over Hardy. I found it interesting that they said Seattle was going to move him though. Hardy could give him a few lessons on what that kind of move does for a career.

Anyway, I am just bummed that this will be viewed by many as another case of Bungal-itis, even though we don't know all of the circumstances yet.

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