Davis 1st rd

[cover2]

http://www.eastcoastsportsnews.com/2005PreDraft.html

Scroll down 1st rd. 2nd rd.

[Whur CHad At?]

Crowder #1. Thats who i say, feel free to disagree. Davis could still be there in the second round because he is projected to drop to the second. WHO knows this draft is so messed up.

[bengalboomer7]

I disagree.....your right I feel so free

[Bobcat Bengal]

1st round Thomas Davis

2nd round Chris Spencer

I wouldn't be mad at all......

[membengal]

Crowder #1. Thats who i say, feel free to disagree. Davis could still be there in the second round because he is projected to drop to the second. WHO knows this draft is so messed up.

Dude, we get it. You like Crowder. But you might try just a smidgen of objectivity. Crowder is falling in the draft like a two-ton stone. The Bengals have a shot at him on the second day by many accounts. They are NOT going to be taking him at #17, and if they do, it will be open season on them again by every analyst in the football watcing world and every Bengal fan with one exception---you.

[chrishcovga]

I like Thomas Davis, I like Josh Bullocks too ! I just don't want to pull the trigger on Davis at # 17. We need some extra picks in the 2nd and third, so here's the trades that I hope happen.

1- a defensive end like Merriman, or James fall to # 17,

I(a) - Denver offers a 2nd and a 3rd this year or a pick next year to move up.

I( - Philadelphia offers # 31,# 35, and # 94 to take our # 17 spot. - would still leave the Eagles with # 17, # 63, and # 77! - and dropping 14 spots this isn't too much to ask.

I© - Jaguars offer a 3rd to move up from 21.

I(d) - After the trade down to the Jags, Jets offer a pick or more to move up to take either a DT or a Tight End.

Of course the trade I want the most would be the trade with Philly. At # 31 there should still be an elite player at WR,TE,C,LB,DE and DT.

If that could happen this is how our draft should look like.

# 31 Justin Tuck 6'5 265 DE, Notre Dame

# 35 Anttaj Hawthorne 6'3 305 DT, Wisconsin

# 48 Chris Spencer 6'3 305 C, Mississippi

# 83 Kirk Morrison 6'2 240 ILB, San Diego State

# 94 James Butler 6'2 210 FS, Georgia Tech.

#119 Ryan Moats RB, Louisiana Tech.

#153 Airese Currie WR, Clemson.

#190 Dave Kashetta TE, Boston College

#233 Atari Bigby SS, Central Florida

I know I know - keep dreamin

[Bobcat Bengal]

I like Thomas Davis, I like Josh Bullocks too ! I just don't want to pull the trigger on Davis at # 17. We need some extra picks in the 2nd and third, so here's the trades that I hope happen.

1- a defensive end like Merriman, or James fall to # 17,

I(a) - Denver offers a 2nd and a 3rd this year or a pick next year to move up.

I( - Philadelphia offers # 31,# 35, and # 94 to take our # 17 spot. - would still leave the Eagles with # 17, # 63, and # 77! - and dropping 14 spots this isn't too much to ask.

I© - Jaguars offer a 3rd to move up from 21.

I(d) - After the trade down to the Jags, Jets offer a pick or more to move up to take either a DT or a Tight End.

Of course the trade I want the most would be the trade with Philly. At # 31 there should still be an elite player at WR,TE,C,LB,DE and DT.

If that could happen this is how our draft should look like.

# 31 Justin Tuck 6'5 265 DE, Notre Dame

# 35 Anttaj Hawthorne 6'3 305 DT, Wisconsin

# 48 Chris Spencer 6'3 305 C, Mississippi

# 83 Kirk Morrison 6'2 240 ILB, San Diego State

# 94 James Butler 6'2 210 FS, Georgia Tech.

#119 Ryan Moats RB, Louisiana Tech.

#153 Airese Currie WR, Clemson.

#190 Dave Kashetta TE, Boston College

#233 Atari Bigby SS, Central Florida

I know I know - keep dreamin

that's alright there.

[schweinhart]

Damn, that'd be a monster draft

Gotta think the Eagles won't give up that much for moving up from #31 to #17 when they could proly give up about the same (plus their 6th and 7th rd comp picks) for climbing as far up in the 1st as they want.

A swap w/ the Jags definitely makes sense if they feel they can get the CB they want and their 3rd would be right for moving 4 spots.

A swap w/ Jets would be intriguing. Too bad the Bengals didn't want Sam Cowart...they could have proly got him and the Jets 3rd for swapping picks #17 and #26. Maybe they could get somebody else from Jets i.e their version of Deltha O'Neal. and get a 3rd or 4th to boot.

[Whur CHad At?]

Dude, we get it. You like Crowder. But you might try just a smidgen of objectivity. Crowder is falling in the draft like a two-ton stone. The Bengals have a shot at him on the second day by many accounts. They are NOT going to be taking him at #17, and if they do, it will be open season on them again by every analyst in the football watcing world and every Bengal fan with one exception---you.

I know a lot of people who want Crowder. But let's not get started on this again. I am just giving my opionion. I just think he would be a good addition to our D. He is one of those players who will shock a lot of people. Just like Davis is a very good player, but i don't think we will take him either. One player that comes to mind is Justin Tuck. If we trade down, we could take a look at him. He will be a stud in the NFL, he is excatly like Simeon Rice, excatly.

[Indycat]

I( - Philadelphia offers # 31,# 35, and # 94 to take our # 17 spot. - would still leave the Eagles with # 17, # 63, and # 77! - and dropping 14 spots this isn't too much to ask.

Based on the NFL Trade Value Chart

NFL Trade Value Chart

pick 17 has a value of 975

picks 31+35+94 have a value of 1310. Eagles wouldn't make that trade.

they may trade picks 31+77+94 value of 960

or picks 35+63+94 value of 965

or picks 31+63+3rd round next year value of 1005

As good as the Eagles draft I can't see them trading 3 picks in the top 100 for 1 pick but I like your dream.

[bnglsfan26]

Crowder #1. Thats who i say, feel free to disagree. Davis could still be there in the second round because he is projected to drop to the second. WHO knows this draft is so messed up.

That's who I project going to CIN. they have plenty of talent in that secondary in Keiwan Ratliff, Madeiu Williams, Tory James, and Deltha O'Neal. Williams likely will play FS this year, and they will attempt to bulk up Ratliff to get him into SS, as he is a tremendous hitter and is great in run-stopping.

Likely you'll see your defense look something like this:

LDE Duane Clemons/RookieDE(2nd Rd)*

NT Bryan Robinson

UT Matthias Askew

RDE Justin Smith

SSLB Kevin Hardy

MLB Channing Crowder*

WSLB Brian Simmons

LC Deltha O'Neal

FS Madieu Williams

SS Kim Herring (Keiwan Ratliff)

RC Tory James

Likely Duane Clemons will win the starting nod but fork his job over during the season to whoever Cincinnati picks up in the draft, as they need a good pass-rushing end pretty badly to compliment Smith and open up the middle for their LBs to make more plays.

SS is likely to be the achilles of this defense, at least for the beginning of the year. Herring is a servicable starter at best who has some injury concerns that may and probably will prevent him from putting out his best game on Sundays, and if they do indeed try and bulk up Ratliff and move him to SS (a more natural position for his talents), he'll have a bit of a learning curve until midseason or so.

[bnglsfan26]

Crowder #1.  Thats who i say, feel free to disagree.  Davis could still be there in the second round because he is projected to drop to the second.  WHO knows this draft is so messed up.

Dude, we get it. You like Crowder. But you might try just a smidgen of objectivity. Crowder is falling in the draft like a two-ton stone. The Bengals have a shot at him on the second day by many accounts. They are NOT going to be taking him at #17, and if they do, it will be open season on them again by every analyst in the football watcing world and every Bengal fan with one exception---you.

Making up stats to back up your argument doesn't exactly make for solid debate. Crowder's stock is not falling at all. He's been a middle-late first rounder since the draft began shaking out. He won't get into the second round to save his life. The guy's a monster, and coming out after as a true sophomore.

It's one thing to be biased towards home-teams, but if its a valid assessment, then why bother raising all of this ruckus over it? ILB is probably the biggest position of need for the Bengals right now, and it only makes sense that they take an ILB they can build that young defense around.

Crowder is cut from the Ray Lewis mold and likely will become the leader of his defense before season's end.

[shworge]

Crowder #1.  Thats who i say, feel free to disagree.  Davis could still be there in the second round because he is projected to drop to the second.  WHO knows this draft is so messed up.

That's who I project going to CIN. they have plenty of talent in that secondary in Keiwan Ratliff, Madeiu Williams, Tory James, and Deltha O'Neal. Williams likely will play FS this year, and they will attempt to bulk up Ratliff to get him into SS, as he is a tremendous hitter and is great in run-stopping.

Likely you'll see your defense look something like this:

LDE Duane Clemons/RookieDE(2nd Rd)*

NT Bryan Robinson

UT Matthias Askew

RDE Justin Smith

SSLB Kevin Hardy

MLB Channing Crowder*

WSLB Brian Simmons

LC Deltha O'Neal

FS Madieu Williams

SS Kim Herring (Keiwan Ratliff)

RC Tory James

Likely Duane Clemons will win the starting nod but fork his job over during the season to whoever Cincinnati picks up in the draft, as they need a good pass-rushing end pretty badly to compliment Smith and open up the middle for their LBs to make more plays.

SS is likely to be the achilles of this defense, at least for the beginning of the year. Herring is a servicable starter at best who has some injury concerns that may and probably will prevent him from putting out his best game on Sundays, and if they do indeed try and bulk up Ratliff and move him to SS (a more natural position for his talents), he'll have a bit of a learning curve until midseason or so.

Where have you heard they are trying to turn Keiwan Ratliff into a SS. I've never heard of a corner moving to SS, I've heard of a LB moving to SS or a corner moving to FS, but he would really need to bulk up to play SS. I think they are looking to draft a SS and keep Ratliff at nickel, with the plan for him to eventually take over for Tory James.

[cover2]

Although Crowder has all the physical tools and is a monster, how do you get past the many injury concerns? When is the risk just too great? Unfortunately, injuries are going to knock him out of the 1st 32.

Going in the 1st round is a huge gamble for a player with that kind of medical history.

Kevin Hardy was slow last year. He will be even slower this year and the guy is making big bucks. Hopefully, we can find somebody better to replace him with.

There is no way Hardy should stay. He is the Tony Williams of 2004.

No disrespect for Tony, but he should have been gone last year before the injury.

I never quite understood why Foley was released by Marvin? As I recall Foley was injured when Marvin came aboard. He let TJ hang around for a year on injured reserve and Foley was not given a contract. I could stand to be corrected!

But the guy could play and still does big time.

"Open season on the Bengals, Dude" I was one who thought the Bengals had a terrible draft last year. I was wrong along with alot of people. NFL teams don't live and die with Mel Kiper, Great Blue North or the Huddle report. They don't really even know what they have until a few years after the player is drafted.

Case in point.....Rudi Johnson. Rookies don't roll out and make the Pro Bowl.

It takes time. With all that being said, Chris Perry makes me uneasy.

First round picks have to deliver!

[TJJackson]

Hmm, lookie here, who's on the Cold List (updated in the last 24 hours as of this post) in one expert's estimation -

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/features/coldlist.html

I too am of the school that durability is of extra, extra, extra importance in round 1, because you don't want millions in cap dollars on IR.

[membengal]

Crowder #1.  Thats who i say, feel free to disagree.  Davis could still be there in the second round because he is projected to drop to the second.  WHO knows this draft is so messed up.

Dude, we get it. You like Crowder. But you might try just a smidgen of objectivity. Crowder is falling in the draft like a two-ton stone. The Bengals have a shot at him on the second day by many accounts. They are NOT going to be taking him at #17, and if they do, it will be open season on them again by every analyst in the football watcing world and every Bengal fan with one exception---you.

Making up stats to back up your argument doesn't exactly make for solid debate. Crowder's stock is not falling at all. He's been a middle-late first rounder since the draft began shaking out. He won't get into the second round to save his life. The guy's a monster, and coming out after as a true sophomore.

It's one thing to be biased towards home-teams, but if its a valid assessment, then why bother raising all of this ruckus over it? ILB is probably the biggest position of need for the Bengals right now, and it only makes sense that they take an ILB they can build that young defense around.

Crowder is cut from the Ray Lewis mold and likely will become the leader of his defense before season's end.

I am not making up anything. I have read numerous projections of Crowder in rounds 3 and 4 now. I call that "dropping like a stone" since he was previously thought to be a first rounder. The copious knee surgeries and character issues are hurting his stock.

He may indeed be a monster, but my point was simply this...if the Bengals were to take him at #17 they would be leaped upon as if by crazed lemurs by the Mel Kiper's of the world for their horrendous reach. Count on that.

And, thanks, TJJ, for the link above. I don't have the time to go back and pull all mentions of Crowder dropping, but I will keep an eye out. I would like to think I have been on here long enough that I have a little credibility with folks.

[skyline]

Crowder #1.  Thats who i say, feel free to disagree.  Davis could still be there in the second round because he is projected to drop to the second.  WHO knows this draft is so messed up.

That's who I project going to CIN. they have plenty of talent in that secondary in Keiwan Ratliff, Madeiu Williams, Tory James, and Deltha O'Neal. Williams likely will play FS this year, and they will attempt to bulk up Ratliff to get him into SS, as he is a tremendous hitter and is great in run-stopping.

Likely you'll see your defense look something like this:

LDE Duane Clemons/RookieDE(2nd Rd)*

NT Bryan Robinson

UT Matthias Askew

RDE Justin Smith

SSLB Kevin Hardy

MLB Channing Crowder*

WSLB Brian Simmons

LC Deltha O'Neal

FS Madieu Williams

SS Kim Herring (Keiwan Ratliff)

RC Tory James

Likely Duane Clemons will win the starting nod but fork his job over during the season to whoever Cincinnati picks up in the draft, as they need a good pass-rushing end pretty badly to compliment Smith and open up the middle for their LBs to make more plays.

SS is likely to be the achilles of this defense, at least for the beginning of the year. Herring is a servicable starter at best who has some injury concerns that may and probably will prevent him from putting out his best game on Sundays, and if they do indeed try and bulk up Ratliff and move him to SS (a more natural position for his talents), he'll have a bit of a learning curve until midseason or so.

Was John Thornton left out on purpose?

[membengal]

The latest mocks at TSN and Scout's Inc. have Crowder slotted at the tail end of the first round. That is clearly higher than "3rd - 4th round", but also clearly lower than the Bengals pick at #17. So, my observation that the Bengals would be killed by analysts for picking him there remains salient.

I like the idea of Crowder, but I hate his medical history. The off field stuff does not concern me on a Marvin Lewis coached team. If the Bengals traded down to the end of the first round and were sold on him as an answer, I would be fine with that, I suppose, but I would hate that pick if they stayed home at #17.

[chrishcovga]

I( - Philadelphia offers # 31,# 35, and # 94 to take our # 17 spot. - would still leave the Eagles with # 17, # 63, and # 77! - and dropping 14 spots this isn't too much to ask.

Based on the NFL Trade Value Chart

NFL Trade Value Chart

pick 17 has a value of 975

picks 31+35+94 have a value of 1310. Eagles wouldn't make that trade.

they may trade picks 31+77+94 value of 960

or picks 35+63+94 value of 965

or picks 31+63+3rd round next year value of 1005

As good as the Eagles draft I can't see them trading 3 picks in the top 100 for 1 pick but I like your dream.

Hey, , I'm glad there's a NFL TRADE VALUE CHART, but leave the negotiations to people that had to sell body oils and incense on the street to pay for college ok..?

I just want everyone to share my dream...

[schweinhart]

Crowder #1.  Thats who i say, feel free to disagree.  Davis could still be there in the second round because he is projected to drop to the second.  WHO knows this draft is so messed up.

That's who I project going to CIN. they have plenty of talent in that secondary in Keiwan Ratliff, Madeiu Williams, Tory James, and Deltha O'Neal. Williams likely will play FS this year, and they will attempt to bulk up Ratliff to get him into SS, as he is a tremendous hitter and is great in run-stopping.

Likely you'll see your defense look something like this:

LDE Duane Clemons/RookieDE(2nd Rd)*

NT Bryan Robinson

UT Matthias Askew

RDE Justin Smith

SSLB Kevin Hardy

MLB Channing Crowder*

WSLB Brian Simmons

LC Deltha O'Neal

FS Madieu Williams

SS Kim Herring (Keiwan Ratliff)

RC Tory James

Likely Duane Clemons will win the starting nod but fork his job over during the season to whoever Cincinnati picks up in the draft, as they need a good pass-rushing end pretty badly to compliment Smith and open up the middle for their LBs to make more plays.

SS is likely to be the achilles of this defense, at least for the beginning of the year. Herring is a servicable starter at best who has some injury concerns that may and probably will prevent him from putting out his best game on Sundays, and if they do indeed try and bulk up Ratliff and move him to SS (a more natural position for his talents), he'll have a bit of a learning curve until midseason or so.

Was John Thornton left out on purpose?

Maybe Askew and Robinson will make folks forget about Thornton

But no Silent Assassin He'll be a SS before Keiwan ever would be and in fact was issued #47 before he got his backer #.

And no Jumpy Jr. Good things take place for Bengals when he is in. Much quicker than Big Duane on contain, pass rush, and backside pursuit.