bengals draft

[BengalPappaw]

The main question once again w/ Bengals draft is if the pick's going to be offensive or defensive. There seemed to be better prospects for a pick on D last year than this but at least the Bengals now have Chris Perry 

While I NOT a big fan of Marcus Spears[no secret that I don't like is inconsistent performance], I do think you may be right about the Bengals taking an offensive player in the first round.

IMHO If one of those WR, Edwards or Williams, maybe Clayton or Williamson or White, we might just draft another offensive player.

Many of the mock drafts still have Heath Miller still available at #17 and that might mean that we could improve ourselves at TE.

Since I believe in and trust Marvin, I am really interested to see which way the Bengals draft this year.

AND, if the Bengals draft Marcus Spears as a DE/DT, I'll have my "crow" baked -- not fried.

[chrishcovga]

Hey don't worry about it Pappaw, like most Bengal fans ( including myself ) we all usually end up eating crow come draft day .

The wait and seek is part of the fun, but I would be dissappointed if we...

1. Drafted an offensive lineman with our first pick, because they don't want Willies' high salary around.

2. Drafted another Runningback, unless the need became absolutely necessary because Rudi's gone.

3. Drafted a Wide Receiver and it's not Williams or Edwards. I'm sure Williamson, Clayton, and White will be fine, I'm just not willing to draft a WR in the first round unless he's an elite prospect, As I see it, There are only 2 elite wr prospects in this entire draft.

I'd be happy if we....

1. Drafted a Heath Miller- to finally add legitimacy to our TE position.

2. Drafted one of the Better DE's like a Spears or Pollack. I still have reservations about James,Cody and Tuck.

3. Drafted Thomas Davis and stopped the Merry-go-round of Safety Play. Hopefully in our " NEW AND IMPROVED DEFENSE " the safety roles will be more defined and Madieu will be asked to cover more, while the Strong Safety lays people out!

[BengalPappaw]

Hey don't worry about it Pappaw, like most Bengal fans ( including myself ) we all usually end up eating crow come draft day .

The wait and seek is part of the fun, but I would be dissappointed if we...

1. Drafted an offensive lineman with our first pick, because they don't want Willies' high salary around.

2. Drafted another Runningback, unless the need became absolutely necessary because Rudi's gone.

3. Drafted a Wide Receiver and it's not Williams or Edwards. I'm sure Williamson, Clayton, and White will be fine, I'm just not willing to draft a WR in the first round unless he's an elite prospect, As I see it, There are only 2 elite wr prospects in this entire draft.

I'd be happy if we....

1. Drafted a Heath Miller- to finally add legitimacy to our TE position.

2. Drafted one of the Better DE's like a Spears or Pollack. I still have reservations about James,Cody and Tuck.

3. Drafted Thomas Davis and stopped the Merry-go-round of Safety Play. Hopefully in our " NEW AND IMPROVED DEFENSE " the safety roles will be more defined and Madieu will be asked to cover more, while the Strong Safety lays people out!

I agree --except for the Spears thing! lol

I, too, am not convinced that Tuck, James or Cody are worth the first round for the Bengals.

The players that I'm also unsure of are the LBs Channing Crowder and Merriman -- both are good athletes and both show flashes of really being good. BUT, I not sure how much they upgrade the Bengals

[chrishcovga]

Actually I think this is a pretty good class of linebackers. Maybe not as good as the 1998 class, but definitely close.

* One guy in particular that I wouldn't mind us taking early is Kevin Burnett OLB, Tennessee. He's got size,speed,instincts, makes plays on both sides of the ball, can even drop in coverage and make plays there. He carries a late first round to mid second round grade, and I think he's got Pro Bowler written all over him.

[#85MVP]

if this class of linebacking is so good then why not take the 2nd best one is Shawne Merriman. I really think this guy is gonna be great. He reminds me a lot of Terrell Suggs. He can play DE, LB, and maybe SSLB. Marvin Lewis says it himself we need better pass rushing and this guy can bring dominate pass rushing ability!

http://www.bengals.com/press/news.asp?iCur...=0&news_id=2717 (under WHAT A RUSH).

[BengalPappaw]

There are two other LBs that I like. Barrett Ruud and Odell Thurman -- both have excellent speed and make plays all over the field. I'd like to see the Bengals get one of them in the later rounds.

[chrishcovga]

if this class of linebacking is so good then why not take the 2nd best one is Shawne Merriman. I really think this guy is gonna be great. He reminds me a lot of Terrell Suggs. He can play DE, LB, and maybe SSLB. Marvin Lewis says it himself we need better pass rushing and this guy can bring dominate pass rushing ability!

http://www.bengals.com/press/news.asp?iCur...=0&news_id=2717 (under WHAT A RUSH).

Because every year there is his type of player. Last minute underclassmen that wasn't really on anyone's draft watch until he posted a good season.

Don't get me wrong, He's athletic, quick etc. etc. etc., but the draft is full of his type of players. You have to answer these questions..

1. Does Shawne Merriman fit our system?

2. Can he learn to play in space?

3. Does drafting him in the First round make our defense better?

4. Does drafting him solve an immediate need ? And I could go on and on.

Merriman who stands 6'4 245 has posted amazing physical stats. 41 1/2 vertical jump. Timed in the low 4.6's and high 4.5's but so did Boss Bailey ( Georgia ) two years ago. Boss Bailey was far more a finished product coming out of college than Merriman is. But what has Boss done with the Lions, absolutely nothing !

If we actually change our defense to a 3-4, then i'll consider a player like Merriman, or Blackstock who's individual talents are best suited for those type of schemes, until then; Unless Derrick Johnson falls to # 17( provided we haven't already traded down ) then we can always go linebacker on day 2. Here's a list of guys that could be standout players as day 2 LB's.

1. Lional Turner Lb L.S.U. - Proven middle linebacker, game films show a complete player, with big play potential. Not the fastest, but has Captained one of the best Defenses in the NCAA the last 3 years.

2. Robert McCune LB Louisville - His workout numbers are going to be scary come combine next week. If he runs as fast as he should we could see a Linebacker with size that runs faster than most cornerbacks.

And of course the rest of the list of Mentionables.

Lofa Tatupu, Alfred Fincher, Pat Thomas. - All with solid day two grades, that have serious starting potential.

[schweinhart]

Merriman would immediately make Hardy expendable. Strongside LB becomes a position of need if Hardy goes but the likelihood is that Hardy and his big cap hit will be around for 2005.

Even w/ Hardy staying, Merriman would still solidify the position. There's no way Landon Johnson shifts to strgonside IMO because his strength is playing in the open field not in closer quarters where he would have to rely on strength more rather than speed to avoid blockers. It would be more likely for the Natester to shift to SSLB because there's no chance he'll be faster than he was after tearing his patella tendon.

Still, I like Trent Cole in the 5th for being able to approximate what Merriman can do. Cole's 40 time will be key for him.

[shworge]

if this class of linebacking is so good then why not take the 2nd best one is Shawne Merriman. I really think this guy is gonna be great. He reminds me a lot of Terrell Suggs. He can play DE, LB, and maybe SSLB. Marvin Lewis says it himself we need better pass rushing and this guy can bring dominate pass rushing ability!

http://www.bengals.com/press/news.asp?iCur...=0&news_id=2717 (under WHAT A RUSH).

I think he is better suited for a 3-4 defense.

[chrishcovga]

Merriman would immediately make Hardy expendable. Strongside LB becomes a position of need if Hardy goes but the likelihood is that Hardy and his big cap hit will be around for 2005.

Even w/ Hardy staying, Merriman would still solidify the position. There's no way Landon Johnson shifts to strgonside IMO because his strength is playing in the open field not in closer quarters where he would have to rely on strength more rather than speed to avoid blockers. It would be more likely for the Natester to shift to SSLB because there's no chance he'll be faster than he was after tearing his patella tendon.

Still, I like Trent Cole in the 5th for being able to approximate what Merriman can do. Cole's 40 time will be key for him.

I just don't see us taking a Linebacker early. I know Hardy has an outrageous contract, but we do have some legitimate depth with or without him.

I think after the season was over, we heard Rumors that if Hardy goes, Brian Simmons would move to SLB, Nate would return to MLB, and Landon Johnson would take over at WLB. Khalid Abdullah probably backs up at Weakside, Caleb Miller backs up at Middle, or at least challenges for the start at MLB.

If that is the case, then we could always trade down in round one, Maybe take an Antaj Hawthorne instead of Pollack,Spears,or T.Johnson, and grab Burnett or Morrison in round 2.

[schweinhart]

I think after the season was over, we heard Rumors that if Hardy goes, Brian Simmons would move to SLB, Nate would return to MLB, and Landon Johnson would take over at WLB. Khalid Abdullah probably backs up at Weakside, Caleb Miller backs up at Middle, or at least challenges for the start at MLB.

If that is the case, then we could always trade down in round one, Maybe take an Antaj Hawthorne instead of Pollack,Spears,or T.Johnson, and grab Burnett or Morrison in round 2.

The LB scenario like you got w/o Hardy would work. And the 2nd rd pick for LB would make sense.

Personally, Kirk Morrison freaked me out the 1 chance I got to see him. I see you got him going to Colts at #60 in your mock on the Bengalszone home page. Sounds about right. I got the Seahwaks taking him at #54. I would say Morrison would be available at Bengals 2nd rd pick but not Burnett.

[#85MVP]

Merriman who stands 6'4 245 has posted amazing physical stats. 41 1/2 vertical jump. Timed in the low 4.6's and high 4.5's but so did Boss Bailey ( Georgia ) two years ago. Boss Bailey was far more a finished product coming out of college than Merriman is. But what has Boss done with the Lions, absolutely nothing !

Boss Bailey was put on IR at the begining of the season which means he literally could not play, that is the only reason he did absolutley nothing for the lions.

[chrishcovga]

Merriman who stands 6'4 245 has posted amazing physical stats. 41 1/2 vertical jump. Timed in the low 4.6's and high 4.5's but so did Boss Bailey ( Georgia ) two years ago. Boss Bailey was far more a finished product coming out of college than Merriman is. But what has Boss done with the Lions, absolutely nothing !

Boss Bailey was put on IR at the begining of the season which means he literally could not play, that is the only reason he did absolutley nothing for the lions.

Bailey wasn't anything special his rookie year either !

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/395920

[#85MVP]

Merriman who stands 6'4 245 has posted amazing physical stats. 41 1/2 vertical jump. Timed in the low 4.6's and high 4.5's but so did Boss Bailey ( Georgia ) two years ago. Boss Bailey was far more a finished product coming out of college than Merriman is. But what has Boss done with the Lions, absolutely nothing !

Boss Bailey was put on IR at the begining of the season which means he literally could not play, that is the only reason he did absolutley nothing for the lions.

Bailey wasn't anything special his rookie year either !

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/395920

KEYWORD ROOKIE YEAR. bailey was a 2nd round pick merriman is a sure 1st round pick. merriman is more of a terrell suggs prototype. just like suggs he was a very successful DE in college we will see if he turns into a very scuccessful OLB in NFL. this guy is the best edge pass rusher in the draft.

if not merriman id be more than happy with channing crowder. i know everyones saying hes a bust but i dont see it. his play reminds me of ray lewis, fiery, intense, physical, and has good speed. we can trade down about 4 maybe 6 picks and still land him.

we need to get a flippin 3-4 Defense. it succeeds. the more linebackers the better, it is proven. look at the patriots there linebacking scheme is a vital part to there success, with brushci, mcginest, t.johnson, and vrabel. a 3-4 fits our team b/c our DL is IMO good on the ends with geathers and smith but could use a nose tackle which we could draft either ronald fields or anthony bryant or sign pat williams. he maybe old but by the time he retires we could develop my man mathias askew into a nose tackle. and who could forget our new LB core with Landon Johnson, Nate Webster, Brian Simmons, and IMO hopefully Merriman or Crowder, if not then Kevin Hardy or Caleb Miller With a D like that, the Bengals Dynasty can begin.

[semiotter]

Hey guys what you all think about us drafting either

Heath Miller , TE, VA.

Erasmus James DE, WI.

Dan Cody, DE, OK.

I saw these guys play this year a couple of times and I would love to have any of them...

[#85MVP]

Hey guys what you all think about us drafting either

Heath Miller , TE, VA.

Erasmus James DE, WI.

Dan Cody, DE, OK.

I saw these guys play this year a couple of times and I would love to have any of them...

i strongly doubt miller will still be there at 17 and i strongly doubt we would trade up for him.

erasmus james is a great pass rusher but when he lines up against an NFL offensive tackle he will be devoured by the tackle because the tackle probably will weigh 40-75 more lbs. than him.

dan cody i think will be a justin smith type of player. all cody needs to do is gain a little weight or drop some if he wants to move to outside linebacker. i still am not a big fan of this guy b/c he has little athleticism and doesnt have much upside.

i dont see why all you guys want a DE we r solid there with smith clemons and geathers (who got 3.5 sacks and 5 passes defended and that sweet interception for a 36 yard TOUCHDOWN)

[redsfan2510]

I think we our draft should look like this.

1 Heath Schueler,2 Justin Tuck de,3 Dan Brown c, 4Sione Poula dt,5 Marvel Underwood ss, 6 Taylor Stubblefeild wr ,7 Ryan Fitspatrick qb Other players I like are dt Luis Castillo and s Thomas Davis. If we trade out of the first we could pick up Shazor ss and and wr Chris Henry. Also does anyone know anything about Weathersby. If he comes back is it possible he could play safety? REDSFAN2510 :player:

[chrishcovga]

i dont see why all you guys want a DE we r solid there with smith clemons and geathers (who got 3.5 sacks and 5 passes defended and that sweet interception for a 36 yard TOUCHDOWN)

1. Because Clemons is 32. He's only signed for the '05 season, and because he's not stout enough to play the run. He'll make a play or two and that's about it, for an entire season.

2. Because Jumpy's kid is still a work in progress.

3. Because Justin Smith still hasn't taken the " reins " on stardom or greatness yet, and seems content to be " pretty good " player. He's content to be a guy that can play pretty good one week, and go unseen the next.

4. Because we have NO pass rush coming from up the middle. 4 sacks from two defensive tackles in 16 games is just sad, and may be the worst in the NFL.!

5. Because in a year or two Justin Smiths' contract will be up, and he'll probably ask for upper tier money, something that he just hasn't earned ! :player:

[schweinhart]

Plus Powell is hopefully gone so DE has to get consideration just from a roster spot perspective.

DE should be picked at some point even if its a DE/DT or DE/LB tweener.

[#85MVP]

we gotta let guys like geathers develop, if we draft a DE then geathers, a good player will be a wasted pick.

sounds like the browns

RB

2000- draft 3rd round travis prentice

2001- draft 3rd round james jackson

2002- never let jackson and/or prentice develop and draft 1st round william green

C

2000- draft 3rd round melvin fowler

2001- never let him develop and draft 1st round jeff faine

prentice, jackson, fowler = WASTED PICKS NEVER DEVELOPED

dont want to do that to robert geathers, mathias askew, landon johnson, or caleb miller

[chrishcovga]

we gotta let guys like geathers develop, if we draft a DE then geathers, a good player will be a wasted pick.

sounds like the browns

RB

2000- draft 3rd round travis prentice

2001- draft 3rd round james jackson

2002- never let jackson and/or prentice develop and draft 1st round william green

C

2000- draft 3rd round melvin fowler

2001- never let him develop and draft 1st round jeff faine

prentice, jackson, fowler = WASTED PICKS NEVER DEVELOPED

dont want to do that to robert geathers, mathias askew, landon johnson, or caleb miller

I agree with you, but at the same time I'm gonna have to disagree with you. I know giving up on first day players isn't the best thing, but at the same time, players have to get on board right away or the teams have to select someone who can do learn the job and do it right away.

* Case in Point.. - How long did we hold onto Cory Hall, ( SUPER REACH ) , or Mark Roman ( TREMENDOUS REACH ) !! Then Marquand Manuel etc. etc..

-Then ML comes in , sees a 2nd rounder like Lamont Thompson come in, and half-ass every thing, and ML has to cut him before he can grow up!

* This league ain't for everybody, You never know who's gonna bust out or for what reason, - but with the Salary cap, limited active gameday rosters etc, Coaches and GM's don't have the time to waste while guys get their acts together.

Plus let me add this...Travis Prentice, and James Jackson weren't that good in the first place.

[jjakq27]

You forgot one of my favorite wasted picks, Artrell Hawkins in round 2. We passed on Brian Griese to take Hawkins, when he would have been there in round 3.

He had ample opportunity but never seemed to develop into a solid NFL player. That goes to show that just because a guy runs a sub 4.3-40, doesn't mean you can teach a guy how to play in the NFL. That's where ML and these coaches have done a good job in drafting players instead of drafting for potential. I am glad we aren't trying to catch lightning in a bottle anymore.

[chrishcovga]

You forgot one of my favorite wasted picks, Artrell Hawkins in round 2. We passed on Brian Griese to take Hawkins, when he would have been there in round 3.

He had ample opportunity but never seemed to develop into a solid NFL player. That goes to show that just because a guy runs a sub 4.3-40, doesn't mean you can teach a guy how to play in the NFL. That's where ML and these coaches have done a good job in drafting players instead of drafting for potential. I am glad we aren't trying to catch lightning in a bottle anymore.

JJaq : you made a great point about Hawkins, but you missed the picks Hawkins should have been replaced by..

and the list goes like this since Hawkins was the 43 rd pick of round 2...

# 44 - Patrick Surtain.... I lost count on how many probowls he's been too.

# 45 - Brian Kelly... : He's been to one at least I know that

# 46 - Samari Rolle.. He's been to at least 3 !

We drafted Hawkins, because Mike Brown was too cheap to pay for a plane or bus ticket. I doubt he even offered cab fare to bring Hawkins over from U.C. down to Riverfront.

Other thing to note, while it was quite obvious that Cincy' blew the Hawkins pick, and needed to draft another top cornerback in the '99 draft. We passed on Dre Bly ( 2 consecutive pro bowls ) - ( arguably the 2nd best cover corner in the draft behind McAlister and Fernando Bryant ) to take Charles Fisher who was considered a late 3rd rounder at best !

[jjakq27]

I thought I was over these feelings. Thanks for reminding me Chris.

I have mentioned this story here before, but my nephew was a walk-on at UC that year (1997). I was with him the day of the draft and mentioned that the Bengals had taken one of his teammates in the second round. Since the Bengals needed O-line help, he thought they had taken Jason Fabini. I don't follow UC football that closely but I knew of Fabini. I told him that wasn't it, that it was a defensive player with a funny first name. He says, they didn't take Artrell Hawkins did they? I said that's the name, that's it. His cried that this guy gets burned in practice and in games all the time. MB should have called my nephew.

One more story. We have a client in the Columbus (Ohio) area that told us we'd be sorry and disappointed if we took Dan Wilkinson. He was strong as hell but he was over-rated and had a low motor. He certainly was not worth the No. 1 pick. I guess he was right too. We should have taken Marshall Faulk, but we didn't need him since we had Harold Green.

[San Antonio Bengal]

Hindsight's always 20/20 isn't it?