Heath Miller anyone?

[schweinhart]

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n...2203EST0384.DTL

Heath Miller at #17

[HoosierCat]

Good news! I've been hoping he'd declare (I'm sure no one noticed ).

Miller's value is all over the place right now; I've seen him anywhere from high first round to mid-second. But as the Golden Child at TE this draft it's a good bet he'll go someplace in the first. 17 isn't out of the question.

I wouldn't complain...

[schweinhart]

It seems fairly certain that Miller won't go before 17.

The Lions might take a look at #10 but are in greater need at strong safety, left guard, and maybe right tackle.

The Panthers might make more consideration at #14 but IMO Mike Seidman fits their TE bill for the future and they have O-line and CB needs.

Trade down for Bengals to get him is possible but as long as TE is forced to block way more than running routes, pass catching TE won't make big difference and there's better blocking TEs out there than Miller way down the board.

Schobel has the potential but let's realize that potential already. Of course, any TE signing should spell the end of Reggie Kelly and Tony Stewart.

[chrishcovga]

I think the real question concerning this is this...

Do we need more play out of our Wide Receivers or out of the Tight End spot ?

We know an upgrade is necessary because Schobel drops too many passes to be a " pass catching threat " .. Reggie Kelly is always hurt, and offers nothing but a player looking for a game check. Tony Stewart is a " jack of all trades - master of none " type of player. But I think the importance of the Tight End spot is based more on what we need our offense to do. And that's stretch the field. While having an elite Tight End like a Gonzalez or Heap would be nice, I don't think it's a necessity because of our abiltiy to stretch the field with our WR's.

If we go Tight End, I hope it's not early, but also not late enough to make sure Reggie Kelly isn't a Bengal in '05. :player:

[HoosierCat]

I think the real question concerning this is this...

Do we need more play out of our Wide Receivers or out of the Tight End spot ?

Both. The real questions are, 1. is Carson ready for it? Is he to the point where he can check down 1, 2, 3 guys and then roll out and dump off to the TE? And 2. are the Bengals ready to put some TE-specific plays back in the playbook and quit using the position solely as an extra offensive lineman? If not, we already have a TE of the future and his name is Stacey Andrews.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I beg to differ Joisey. I feel we have decent talent at TE as it is. IMO, the problem has been both QB's ability to get them the ball. Carson is about there as far as checking for open recievers going down the list, which will usually have you TE's coming in at 3rd or 4th in the checkoff order!

[schweinhart]

The case for the talent at TE already being there for the Bengals is definite w/ Schobel...as far as his pass catching ability. He was a Crazy Leg Hirsch on the 70+ yd TD he had vs. Dallas and the routes he ran vs. Fins in the last drive of game got single coverage for Chad on the pass that set up the game-winning FG.

Schobel did drop a big ball vs. Steelers and had 1 or 2 other drop but caught virtually everything else thrown at him. And I believe he caught 4 TDs, which always works

The playcalling and Carson's ability to utilize the TE does apply to Schobel but IMO not Kelly, who was brought in to block for Corey or Stewart, who does well on special teams but not catching the ball on a consistent basis.

Now, Heath Miller is a pass catching machine but if the TE is not going to play more of a prevalent factor in Brat's calls and CP reads then Miler would be a wasted pick and should go to a team where he will immediately be featured in that team's passing attack because he most likely will be wherever he goes. Miller was not utilized well this year with Virginia and his production dropped way off from the years before because he didn't have a QB as good as Matt Schaub running the show in 2004.

[bengalsfan33]

We've lacked a TE that can catch for some time now. I watched Miller a few times the past season and I have to admit, I wouldn't mind one bit if Marvin were to draft him. Palmer could use all the targets he can get...

[jditty47]

I beg to differ Joisey. I feel we have decent talent at TE as it is. IMO, the problem has been both QB's ability to get them the ball. Carson is about there as far as checking for open recievers going down the list, which will usually have you TE's coming in at 3rd or 4th in the checkoff order!

i strongly disagree. we have 3 ok tes. they hardly ever step up and none of them are gamechangers. kelley is making too much $ and stewart aint worth a crap. We need a first string TE that can do it all and actually be a threat. the only threat now is that we lull the other team in to thinking we wont use them...we need to have a bigger threat than that.

[turningpoint]

Heath would be a forced to be reckoned with, he IMO fits a todd heap type mold, and if kyle boller can get him the ball a lot imagine what Palmer could do with a heap type player.

[schweinhart]

The way the draft is starting to shape up w/ underclassmen declared, I don't think Miller will still be there past pick 10. If the Bengals want Miller, they'll likely have to trade up.

[BengalPappaw]

Mel "the hair" Kiper has Heath Miller rated #4 on his draft propspects list.

I've watched him play on tape and IMHO would take him -- but NOT over Mike Williams, Braylon Edwards, Mark Clayton, Derrick Johnson, David Pollack, Antrel Rolle or Thomas Davis.

[HoosierCat]

The way the draft is starting to shape up w/ underclassmen declared, I don't think Miller will still be there past pick 10. If the Bengals want Miller, they'll likely have to trade up.

I don't think he'll go in the top 10, but he's certainly shaping up as a first-round lock, if for no other reason then the huge gap between him and the rest of the TEs in this year's draft. I haven't seen anyone else ranked better than a 3rd round value.

I think he'll be there at 17, but my gut tells me the Bengals won't take him. They wouldn't put Perry out there earlier in the year because Watson was providing better pass protection for Palmer; Miller would probably sit on the sidelines far too much for the same reason.

[schweinhart]

Mooch would seem likely to take a long look at Miller. Alexander had a decent season for Lions but is pushing 30 and would be a good safeguard while Miller progresses. Got to figure Mooch will improve O-side to give Harrington more options since it looks like they're sticking with him.

Lions are fairly stacked on D-side except for SS w/ an aging Bracy Walker set as a UFA. They also could need some O-line help depending on free agency w/ RT McDougle and C Dominic.

Very unlikely Miller would go earlier than #10 unless team w/ top 10 pick trades down. Miller would fit w/ Gruden and Dilger isn't great at TE but if Bucs stay at #5, they'll surely pass on Miller. Between picks and 17, teams seem pretty much set at TE.

So Miller is most likely available at #17 if Mooch passes on him. But I agree at this point given the Bengals situation, they should pass on Miller. I'm leaning further toward LB at #17 or a DE like Pollack who might be able to pick up strongside.

[HoosierCat]

I'm leaning further toward LB at #17 or a DE like Pollack who might be able to pick up strongside.

What I find interesting is that the Bengals have talked about resigning Rudi, TJ, and just in the last day or so Rich Braham...but we haven't heard a peep about Carl Powell. That's fairly thin tea to be reading leaves in, I know, but it suggests they may be thinking along the same lines as chrish, i.e. a DT/DE type like Marcus Spears.

[jditty47]

Joisey - Carl Powell can go bye bye. He is ok but nothing special. We need a person that can consistently come in and dominate. We better get a DT this year or im gonna be pissed.

So many needs still for me.

FB - not impressed with Jeremi

WR - can always use a better, more consistent speed receiver

C - i know we will resign bramm for this season but we need to still take one in round 2-3.

TE - all 3 can go quite frankly, but keep schobel let ineffective stewart go and let old man crappy kelley go as well.

DT - we all know why

S - Need someone that can change a game, herring and beckett havent done much

KR - this might be our biggest need. Cliff Russell is not the answer. We need an impact guy that can break it, mb broussard but we need to take a wr or a corner than can just break.

those are my main needs but can always use more depth at other positions.

[chrishcovga]

I personally don't see the hype on Heath Miller. I honestly don't see in him what scouts saw in Kellen Winslow Jr. and Jeremy Shockey. He's nowhere near the athlete they were coming out of college. He does have very good hands and good quickness for his size, but I have my reserves about taking him.

* I know i'm going to erk.... some people when I say this, but I think i'm beginning to overstand Bob Bratkowskis' offense. It's actually starting to make sense to me. I may not agree with his playcalling, but I don't think TE is a priority for our O'.

- If that's the case, we go defense and offensive line with our first 3 picks.

[schweinhart]

I'm leaning further toward LB at #17 or a DE like Pollack who might be able to pick up strongside.

What I find interesting is that the Bengals have talked about resigning Rudi, TJ, and just in the last day or so Rich Braham...but we haven't heard a peep about Carl Powell. That's fairly thin tea to be reading leaves in, I know, but it suggests they may be thinking along the same lines as chrish, i.e. a DT/DE type like Marcus Spears.

The thing w/ Powell not being re-signed would be that Big Duane would serve his role at DT when needed. With some true rotational DTs on the roster in Martin and Smith, it should make it less necessary to go w/ an undersized DT like Powell if one or both of those 2 stick.

As a DE, Powell has already been replaced by Jumpy Jr. But w/o Powell, it'd still be good to have a lineman w/ DT and DE versatility at the ready, especially w/ Clemons over 30 and in the last year of his contract extension IIRC.

In other words, Spears would be great and would definitely fill a need. But so would Pollack. Both would arguably be the best available athlete at 17, as would a # of others.

[chrishcovga]

I'm leaning further toward LB at #17 or a DE like Pollack who might be able to pick up strongside.

What I find interesting is that the Bengals have talked about resigning Rudi, TJ, and just in the last day or so Rich Braham...but we haven't heard a peep about Carl Powell. That's fairly thin tea to be reading leaves in, I know, but it suggests they may be thinking along the same lines as chrish, i.e. a DT/DE type like Marcus Spears.

The thing w/ Powell not being re-signed would be that Big Duane would serve his role at DT when needed. With some true rotational DTs on the roster in Martin and Smith, it should make it less necessary to go w/ an undersized DT like Powell if one or both of those 2 stick.

As a DE, Powell has already been replaced by Jumpy Jr. But w/o Powell, it'd still be good to have a lineman w/ DT and DE versatility at the ready, especially w/ Clemons over 30 and in the last year of his contract extension IIRC.

In other words, Spears would be great and would definitely fill a need. But so would Pollack. Both would arguably be the best available athlete at 17, as would a # of others.

I'm checking on his status but the apparent Biceps injury to Spears isn't being seen as threatening. If he's available for the combines etc. he's gonna shoot up draft boards. Interesting enough, despite his limited play in bowl game with his injured ..( arm ) .. every mock i've seen still has him as a lock for round 1.

* if it makes you feel better though, I'm starting to be swayed by all the Shaun Cody talk....

- If Spears is healthy though. :player:

[schweinhart]

Spears signed up to play in Senior Bowl on Jan. 29. He accepted the invite on Jan 12, which was after their bowl game so I guess that means he'll play.

[HoosierCat]

ditty:

We better get a DT this year or im gonna be pissed.

Unless we dig up some extra 1st or 2nd round picks someplace, I doubt we'll take a DT before round 3. There just isn't much there this year.

schweinart:

The thing w/ Powell not being re-signed would be that Big Duane would serve his role at DT when needed.

Yup. But it still leaves us a touch shy at DE. I'm leery about drafting a pure DE, tho, I'd like to give Geathers more reps, not fewer. OTOH, this is the last year in which the cap dictates we keep Justin Smith...

[bengalboomer7]

Hey, chris, since you understand Brat, do you think you could explain him to the rest of us! I think Brat likes the vertical passing game more, and if he desn't plan on running Perry through the middle to keep double teams from the outside, then a TE is very much needed to keep safeties from just running over to Chad. We really need a threat over the middle(maybe Warrick out of the slot) and if we don't use a TE for that, we gotta use somebody!