Next years starting D?

[HoosierCat]

By that way of thinking if a LB misses a tackle for a loss or a safety then it was the D-lines fault ?

Where did I say that? All I'm pointing out is that tackles for loss gives you a better (and yes, still incomplete) snapshot of how effective a defensive line is at creating opportunities for LBs to make stops.

I`m not saying or have I ever said that our D-line is great. But JT is a damn good player. His motor is always running  and he makes plays.

Hey, I like him, too. And in his defense he was brought in to be a disruptive, up-the-field force, not a run-stuffer. And like I said earlier, his biggest problem has been not having that big 2-gap guy next to him. I agree they need to replace Tony Williams (it's telling that the d-line's play seemed to improve after Langston Moore came in full-time), and that in turn should make Thornton more effective.

[BengalByTheBay]

Here's my changes to your lineup:

RCB- Keiwan Ratliff______________________SS/FS- Madieu Willaims

RDE- Justin Smith____ ROLB-Brian Simmons

RDT-DRAFT/FA _______MLB-Nate Webster

LDT-John Thorton ______ LOLB- Landon Johnson

LDE-Jumpy Geathers/Clemons

LCB- Deltha O'neal_____________________SS/FS- Tory James

Yeah, this is what I was thinking too Diesel. It's ironic that James is going to the ProBowl (based entirely on his int. #'s at voting time no doubt) when I thought this was a pretty poor year for him. He was flat-out bad in coverage. I thought he was much better last year. If not for the int's. he would probably be getting ripped big time here. Maybe he can make the move to safety -- I have some doubts though because he does not impress me as a strong tackler. More likely he's ready for a nickel role and Ratliff, despite the slow start after holding out, has come on very well. Given today's contact rule, I think he's a good fast cover corner that is pretty solid in run support. Delta still belongs on the other side I believe. Landon moves back outside to his natural position - I agree. They get somebody in at the right DT spot to stop the run and continue to rotate in at both DT spots. Finally, I along with everybody else probably still wonder if Weathersby can make it back.

[TubThumper]

One guy could make a all the difference in the world for the DL and the whole defense.

Put in a disruptive DT that penetrates, chases laterally and makes piles, with a high motor and a nasty attitude and the rest will probably sort itself out.

From that point, select and coach up your best complementary big tackles from among Langston Moore, Matthias Askew and the guys they brought in during the season, sort out which of your steady versatile guys you're going to keep from among Clemmons, Thornton and Powell, and then put some emphasis on Geathers and Smith getting serious about technique - and not getting pinched inside and losing contain.

A stud at DE might be a bonus, but I think that if you get the right guy on the inside, the rest of the line is good enough to give enough push for the linebackers to operate. With a good bullrush keeping the QB from stepping up in the pocket easily, the blitz packages and coverage help keep the pass rush up (which has been better lately than it's been for a long time).

Also, if the linebackers are back to full strength, the effect of a good tackle is going to be magnified even more.

[turningpoint]

Here's my changes to your lineup:

RCB- Keiwan Ratliff______________________SS/FS- Madieu Willaims

RDE- Justin Smith____ ROLB-Brian Simmons

RDT-DRAFT/FA _______MLB-Nate Webster

LDT-John Thorton ______ LOLB- Landon Johnson

LDE-Jumpy Geathers/Clemons

LCB- Deltha O'neal_____________________SS/FS- Tory James

Yeah, this is what I was thinking too Diesel. It's ironic that James is going to the ProBowl (based entirely on his int. #'s at voting time no doubt) when I thought this was a pretty poor year for him. He was flat-out bad in coverage. I thought he was much better last year. If not for the int's. he would probably be getting ripped big time here. Maybe he can make the move to safety -- I have some doubts though because he does not impress me as a strong tackler. More likely he's ready for a nickel role and Ratliff, despite the slow start after holding out, has come on very well. Given today's contact rule, I think he's a good fast cover corner that is pretty solid in run support. Delta still belongs on the other side I believe. Landon moves back outside to his natural position - I agree. They get somebody in at the right DT spot to stop the run and continue to rotate in at both DT spots. Finally, I along with everybody else probably still wonder if Weathersby can make it back.

Never though about james at Safety, but I love the idea of, he kinda palys DB like a safety, just hanging around the WR on the long routes, and then runningto the football to pick it off, he plays the ball more then the WR. I think that's a perfect fit for safety. Also I think He can tackle tremendously, he just throws wr;s to the ground, doesn't put much effort in it, but i bet he'd love the oppurtunity to bulk up a little, and just nail wr's.

[bengalboomer7]

Interesting thought ther deisel. With Tory advancing in age can we slowly move him to the safety spot I think it would be more likely that he becomes a free safety though

[Diesel]

Don't forget that Marvin's scheme calls for pretty much interchangable safeties. Also, while James is not a big hitter, Marvin is not in love with the big hit like fans are. James is a ball hawk, understands the defense very well, and basically knows where to be. He is a decent tackler and being in the safety position, he will be moving forward on tackles which will allow for much better timing (for picks) and momentum (for tackles/hits). His speed is going down, his knowledge is going up. I think this is a no brainer switch as soon as Marvin feels Keiwan is ready to start every down.

[kingwilly]

I am surprised to see so many people listing Nate Webster on thier starting lineups. I think they will give him another shot to start but also draft a LB in the first 3 rounds.

I am also surprised to see people pencil in a Rookie DT. Just about any FA DT of merit will get the start before a rookie, unless we trade-up for one of the top guys.

I do not see James going to safety. He is not a strong enough tackler, or fast enough to cover ground all day in zone support. He is a pretty good cover corner that picks his share. Let's let him get beat out by Ratliff and come in for nickel. O'Neal was more of a hazard in terms of getting burned but had several good games down the stretch.

Williams and KK are adequate safeties. herring is a good tackler but looked slower. Maybe Mitchell or Bauman can make a push. I hesitate to throw ANOTHER rook into the fire early on while he "learns". A FA Safety is not out of the question either.

[TubThumper]

I am surprised to see so many people listing Nate Webster on thier starting lineups. I think they will give him another shot to start but also draft a LB in the first 3 rounds.

I am also surprised to see people pencil in a Rookie DT. Just about any FA DT of merit will get the start before a rookie, unless we trade-up for one of the top guys.

I do not see James going to safety. He is not a strong enough tackler, or fast enough to cover ground all day in zone support. He is a pretty good cover corner that picks his share. Let's let him get beat out by Ratliff and come in for nickel. O'Neal was more of a hazard in terms of getting burned but had several good games down the stretch.

Williams and KK are adequate safeties. herring is a good tackler but looked slower. Maybe Mitchell or Bauman can make a push. I hesitate to throw ANOTHER rook into the fire early on while he "learns". A FA Safety is not out of the question either.

I say trade up for one of the top DT's if there's not a FA of merit signed before the draft. I'd rather go with a FA Linebacker as insurance than skimp on a tackle. Real line tallent is nothing to be sneezed at.

[bengalboomer7]

real line talent is also very hard to find thumber, so I would rather see them get a proven player in FA and work on Askew for the future, we are so deep a LB right now we could draft a good one and mold him for later too.

[chrishcovga]

It might serve our defense better if we Move Tory James to Free Safety, Let Madieu stay at Strong Safety and draft another Corner !

James may have had a lot of interceptions, but you have to realize that he got those because of the opportunities teams had to throw against him. A couple he got from just making a good play, but at least 6 of them came while he was in Man on man coverage. Teams aren't afraid to throw at him, Teams threw more to his side than they did Deltha O'Neals' and he was hurt alot. Ratliff isn't a bump and run type of guy so the only real answer here is to improve James' spot.

We need a playmaker on the defensive line true, but we may be forced again at # 17 to at least consider taking one of the top corners available in the draft.

Corey Webster and Carlos Rogers are both built similiar to T.James, but have younger legs and much better speed. James was on a tear the first part of the season, but as the year went on, his legs got a little heavy and he got picked on frequently.

I still say that improving the DE spot is a priority as well. We don't have enough pass rush. Gotta improve the Left side of the Defensive line ( period ) .

[HoosierCat]

It might serve our defense better if we Move Tory James to Free Safety, Let Madieu stay at Strong Safety and draft another Corner !

Moving James to safety has been suggested elsewhere; I'm partial to the idea myself but there's some debate over whether he has the speed and tackling ability to play there.

A corner in the first round wouldn't bother me. Especially if Weathersby is done, which seems likely.

[TubThumper]

It might serve our defense better if we Move Tory James to Free Safety, Let Madieu stay at Strong Safety and draft another Corner !

Moving James to safety has been suggested elsewhere; I'm partial to the idea myself but there's some debate over whether he has the speed and tackling ability to play there.

A corner in the first round wouldn't bother me. Especially if Weathersby is done, which seems likely.

If James is too slow to play safety, how is he fast enough to play corner?

I don't see him as a safety because of the tackling issue, especially on a team that wants to use strong and free interchangably rather than just have a centerfielder in the back cherry-picking.

[Kirkendall]

It might serve our defense better if we Move Tory James to Free Safety, Let Madieu stay at Strong Safety and draft another Corner !

What's wrong with Ratliff?

[Kirkendall]

If James is too slow to play safety, how is he fast enough to play corner?

His nick-name is toast.

[BengalszoneBilly]

His nick-name is toast.

I thought that was Hawkins. I guess it's multi-applicable, right?

[TubThumper]

His nick-name is toast.

I thought that was Hawkins. I guess it's multi-applicable, right?

Before that, "Toast" was the guy they signed from The Bucs who wore number 25 or 26 that they called "Toast" so much that I can't remember his name.

[membengal]

His nick-name is toast.

I thought that was Hawkins. I guess it's multi-applicable, right?

Before that, "Toast" was the guy they signed from The Bucs who wore number 25 or 26 that they called "Toast" so much that I can't remember his name.

Rod Jones?

I thought he was the original Bengals toast. God he sucked.

[TubThumper]

His nick-name is toast.

I thought that was Hawkins. I guess it's multi-applicable, right?

Before that, "Toast" was the guy they signed from The Bucs who wore number 25 or 26 that they called "Toast" so much that I can't remember his name.

Rod Jones?

I thought he was the original Bengals toast. God he sucked.

Yeah, Rod Jones - the original "Toast" - speed but no ball skills whatsoever.

[belmontbengal]

Hehe, I used to like to call Lewis Billups "Burnt Toast Billups." He annoyed me.

[chrishcovga]

You guys got it all wrong. The ORIGINAL toast was Louis Breeden. But the first official " Burnt Toast " was ( drum roll ) ... Ray Horton !

Ray Horton was turned and burned by more receivers on those bad defenses in the 80's than Liza Minelli beat her ex-husband. And in case you missed it, He was in man Coverage on John Taylor in the '89 Super Bowl.

Lewis Billups will always be remembered as the guy that dropped Joe Montanas' only interception in the SuperBowls. He died in a car accident in Tampa back in the mid 90's I think.

[HoosierCat]

His nick-name is toast.

I thought that was Hawkins. I guess it's multi-applicable, right?

Before that, "Toast" was the guy they signed from The Bucs who wore number 25 or 26 that they called "Toast" so much that I can't remember his name.

Rod Jones?

I thought he was the original Bengals toast. God he sucked.

Yeah, Rod Jones - the original "Toast" - speed but no ball skills whatsoever.

Ah, yes, Rod "Toast" Jones. Not to be confised with the 7th-rounder they put at LT, Rod "Screen Door" Jones.

Clearly, the Bengals should avoid drafting anyone named Rod Jones in the future...