Here's What We Need To Do!

[walzav29]

Draft Clayton out of Oklahoma in the 1st round. This guy in the slot would be better than P-Dub

Trade Kitna (Get rid of the cap number)

Cut Warrick (You don't have to pay him the bonus)

Re-sign TJ

Try to get some type of draft pick for Rudi

Sign an impact DT free-agent

Use the rest of the draft to get more defensive players, and a running back in the later rounds that can push Perry. Rudi was a 4th rounder. They could get someone like that if Perry turns out to be a bust.

Your welcome Marvin. Your map for the off-season for no charge.

Super Bowl Champ's Next Year.

[bengalboomer7]

Don't know a lot about Clayton, except he seems awfully damn fast!!! But there are a few problems in your map

1. Trade Kit to who? In my personal belief he has almost no business in the NFL anyway, he makes me think I could make it out there! No one will want him for the 1mill+ we are paying him to be our backup, your best bet might be to force him to restructure or be cut!!

2.I'm not sure if I agree with Warrick or not. Since he didn't paly most of the season his trade value won't be very high, but with the emergence of TJ and Pdib in a contract year I expect great things from him next year and no matter how good he plays next year will be his last as a bengal

3. Four months ago we all would have laughed at this statement but I totally agree, I love my Pootie!!

4.The only way that will happen is if we franchise him and someone makes him an offer that we don't match, Personally I say sign him at a midlevel contract for two or three so he can prove himself in the long haul(even that's highly unlikely, though)

5.Totally agree here too. DT's are harder to draft than any other position and I would rather see us get an alreadty proven player and progress guys like moore and Askew

6.I agree we need more help on D, but I think you'll see a more balanced draft this year

It will be grat this time next year we'll be talking about who we're going to face in the AFC championship :player:

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Sooo in other words do what the Bengals have been doing the last 16 years and continually rely on unproven rookies to fill critical needs?

You want to cut all this salary from the best players (Rudi, Warrick) but don't really have a compelling reason why they need to other than wanting to "create" more needs by letting proven vets/stars go? So then the defense is neglected once again due to the need to spend draft picks on offensive skill players?

No thanks on the plan man, I say keep the offensive core together (Rudi, Warrick, TJ, Palmer, CJ) for a few more years any way possible, and continue to revamp the defense and 0-line with high draft picks and FA's.

If you want to cut FA's to free up cap space, look at overpaid, oft-injured, unnecessary players like Hardy, T. Williams, Powell, Herring, Justin Smith (only if you can replace him with someone better) etc..,

I just don't understand this Mike Brownesque mentality that they "have" to cut players like Warrick and Rudi this year - why, when you have so much dead weight on defense already that is much more easily replaceable?

Don't ##@@ with this offense, it would be Marvin's biggest mistake if he does.

[HoosierCat]

Sooo in other words do what the Bengals have been doing the last 16 years and continually rely on unproven rookies to fill critical needs?

??

The Bengals haven't relied on "unproven rookies" any more than any other team does. The list of worthless veterans they've inked at QB during the Nineties alone is as long as my arm. Other names include the likes of Tony Williams, Oliver Gibson, Richmond Webb, and Michael Westbrook (boy, he was a winner, huh?). And of course, since Marvin took over, practically the entire defense has been rebuilt with free agents; versus two years ago, the only starters left are Smith and Simmons.

If you're referring specifically to the Rudi/Perry situation, well, the way that's playing out now is, if anything, completely contrary to Bengals business as usual. Mike Brown has never shown any hesitation to step up and pay players who perform, even when they are grade-A jerks like Carl Pickens or Corey Dillon. Sheesh, he was willing to pay the one-year transition price for Spikes. And in none of those cases was the backup plan an "unproven rookie." The backups were, respectively, Darnay Scott, Rudi Johnson, and Kevin Hardy (of which, it should be noted, only the Rudi transition can be considered a success).

[redsfan2]

My what we need to do list is a little shorter.

#1 Draft better than we did last year.

#2 Do better in free agency than we did last year

#3 Implement positive / negative reinforcement with EXTREME prejudice on Monday following the end of the regular season.

[BengalszoneBilly]

They could get someone like that if Perry turns out to be a bust.

What do you mean "if"?

Out of all the #1 picks selected by teams in the NFL in last years draft, name ONE who has popped louder as a bust than this chump of a pick. He's too fragile to play in this league. Hell...he's even too fragile to PRACTICE in this league! How he survived playing college football at Michigan is beyond me.

[bengalboomer7]

I don't think Perry is a bust, YET! I blame the medical staff on this one. How for weeks upon weeks you have an abdominal strain, it nevers gets better, and you can't diagnose a sports hernia

[HoosierCat]

Out of all the #1 picks selected by teams in the NFL in last years draft, name ONE who has popped louder as a bust than this chump of a pick.

How 'bout the "f*ckin soldier"???

[Beaker]

Perry isnt a bust yet. If you judged busts by injury, then TJ is a bust too. He sat at most of last yr. A sports hernia is one of the hardest injuries to diagnose. Lets sit tight on Perry and give him a chance to prove himself when healthy. Im glad ML doesnt make knee jerk decisions like you endorse.

[San Antonio Bengal]

Part of the problem with Perry is that injury wasn't something obvious like, say, snapping your fibula in two. If he had had an obvious injury like that, I don't believe people would be so quick to write him off. We, as fans, were left uncertain of what was really going on with him and then all the speculation started. Some guys are never the same after a serious injury. Some guys recover and you never know it happened. We don't know what will happen with Perry next year. If he doesn't produce when he's on the field, he's a bust, but not before.

[BengalszoneBilly]

How 'bout the "f*ckin soldier"???

We got a tie!

Beaker Posted on Jan 2 2005, 02:31 PM:  Perry isnt a bust yet. If you judged busts by injury, then TJ is a bust too.

I don't judge busts by injury alone. I do it by production, which excludes TJ from being a bust BECAUSE HE'S ACTUALLY PRODUCED POSITIVE RESULTS IN A GAME! If you're fragile, and injured all the time, how will you ever produce?

Until Perry get's at least his 1st first down carry...he'll remain a bust in my book, although he'll probably get injured on that play too!

  bengalboomer7 Posted on Jan 2 2005, 01:21 PM: you can't diagnose a sports hernia

I'll agree the Bengals medical staff isn't someplace I'd go for healthcare, but this injury was only one of many. No one can say he hasn't been injury prone so far, and this is all from PLAYING the tiniest amount of actual game time imaginable!

Beaker Posted on Jan 2 2005, 02:31 PM: Im glad ML doesnt make knee jerk decisions like you endorse.

Ease up Beak. Nowhere in this thread did I endorsed any "decision", kneejerk or otherwise. I simply voiced my opinion on Chris Perry, who I feel is a wasted draft pick, much less a #1 draft pick. You may not agree. That's your right.

The only person who can change my mind on Chris Perry being a bust or not is Chris Perry himself. So far all I've seen is...well I ain't seen hardly a goddam thing now have I?

It's not like in Carson Palmers 1st season, where he was learning the position. Perry should have been seeing at least a few snaps in each game, at least as a third down type back, but his multitude of injuries have precluded this.

The fact remains he has been injury prone SO FAR. Maybe that will change, and he'll become at least an average NFL back and prove me wrong. I'll be happy with that! As long as he PRODUCES SOMETHING POSITIVE!

[jjakq27]

I don't think Perry is a bust, YET!  I blame the medical staff on this one.  How for weeks upon weeks you have an abdominal strain, it nevers gets better, and you can't diagnose a sports hernia

Two years in a row of not getting any use out of your first pick can not happen again next year. It is time for an impact player to be selected with that pick.

During the game, Dave Lapham suggested that they may trade down since there are no great players on DL or OL worthy of the pick at the spot that they will be at. He said that free agency will be the likely route to upgrade those positions.

I wouldn't mind trading down and perhaps picking up another 2nd or 3rd round pick or even a future pick for 2006. That could be a way to cut their cap number too.

The Patriots seem to use draft picks like poker chips and are able to deal when necessary. I would love to see us get to that level someday.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Two years in a row of not getting any use out of your first pick can not happen again next year. It is time for an impact player to be selected with that pick.

I totally agree. Wasn't Gallery selected in the same draft as Perry? Didn't he produce something positive for his team? Yet we get the likes of Perry and Askew...sheeze. Why is it when the draft bus stops to drop off in Cincy, it's usually the SHORT bus!?!

I dunno. Maybe I expect too much, but all I want is what I see most other organizations getting...1st year results!

[chrishcovga]

Fret not Billy, At least come April , we won't be trading down to aquire any Cornerbacks with our # 17 pick again..??

But seriously folks, we seriously missed on Perry. What a difference Steven Jackson could have made when Rudi struggles. Jackson will finish with better than 900 yards of offense rushing and receiving, along with 4 td's.

Chris Gamble tied for 3rd in interceptions with 6.

Randy Starks the DT, finished with 5 sacks . , Heck even Jake Grove started for more than half the season for the Raiders at Guard and Center !!

Better should be expected in '05.

[WHO DEY AGAIN?]

Billy, I feel your pain. I think it all starts with Perry being the Bengals #1 guy at RB. This upset me because I feel there were at least 3 other backs who were better. We all know we were hurting for a DT. So, right off the bat, I hate the pick. So I tell myself" Hey, give the kid a chance." Well from what I saw in the preseason when he wasn't hurt is.....Nothing. The kid showed me nothing. He had no burst when the hole opened up, he had no burst to the outside, he had nothing. I'm hoping he can be a 3rd down back if he comes back from his injury.

[javaman22]

They could get someone like that if Perry turns out to be a bust.

What do you mean "if"?

Out of all the #1 picks selected by teams in the NFL in last years draft, name ONE who has popped louder as a bust than this chump of a pick. He's too fragile to play in this league. Hell...he's even too fragile to PRACTICE in this league! How he survived playing college football at Michigan is beyond me.

DEJAVU? Is it happening again???? Can you say KeeeeeeJaaahnaa???

[WHO DEY AGAIN?]

But seriously folks, we seriously missed on Perry. What a difference Steven Jackson could have made when Rudi struggles. Jackson will finish with better than 900 yards of offense rushing and receiving, along with 4 td's.

I remember you and I trying to convince some people of this the day of the draft. I'm telling you guy's that Chris knows his draft board! He is second to none!

[BengalszoneBilly]

I'm telling you guy's that Chris knows his draft board! He is second to none!

I'll "second" that! IMHO the Bengals would currently be a far superior team had they even remotely followed the draft recommendations touted by Chris! Not to mention more financially sound by not paying a #1 pick for basically just taking up locker space!

More importantly, at no time did Chrishcovga EVER recommend drafting a RB with the #1 pick, much less the likes of Chris "be careful...I bruise easily" Perry! So far he's the only one looking like a genius around here!

[HoosierCat]

I'm telling you guy's that Chris knows his draft board! He is second to none!

I'll "second" that! IMHO the Bengals would currently be a far superior team had they even remotely followed the draft recommendations touted by Chris! Not to mention more financially sound by not paying a #1 pick for basically just taking up locker space!

More importantly, at no time did Chrishcovga EVER recommend drafting a RB with the #1 pick, much less the likes of Chris "be careful...I bruise easily" Perry! So far he's the only one looking like a genius around here!

Let me start this by saying:

1. I read chrish's draft stuff closely and respect his opinions. I don't follow college ball closely and it's wonderful to have someone around here who does.

2. I like you, too, billy. I know, I know, I'm still not getting your Bud Light...but can we possibly, possibly, let a teeny-tiny bit of our Chris-Perry-hate go?

We've had suggestions 'round these part over the last few days that the bengals were wrong not to draft Gamble in the first. Well, let's go look at his stats and Deltha's stats and tell me we'd have more wins.

We've had suggestions that not drafting Randy Starks at some point in the first couple rounds was a mistake. Yes, he's had 5 sacks this year. Great rookie numbers at DT. But the Titans D was allowing just 12 fewer rushing yards a game going into games today, had fewer total sacks than our D, and was actually overall ranked lower than us!

Go back in the archives and look at the last bengalszone mock draft...our first round pick is Antwan Odom. Go compare his stats with Geathers' and tell me we'd have won more games.

We have already sung the praises of Landon Johnson. Keiwan Ratliff looks like the real deal. And I don't think I need to start comparing Madieu to Sean Taylor again, do I? Perry may still go bust, but given the sucess of the 2004 draft -- and it was very successful -- I'm willing to grant him the redshirt season.

[WHO DEY AGAIN?]

Perry may still go bust, but given the sucess of the 2004 draft -- and it was very successful -- I'm willing to grant him the redshirt season.

OK,OK Joisey lets give him a redshirt but answer me this one question. Did he show you anything this preseason? Not against the Colts 3rd and 4th stringers after Rudi and Watson sliced and diced them. In any other game when he was healthy. I know you don't have many to pick from but there must be something. Right?

[HoosierCat]

Perry may still go bust, but given the sucess of the 2004 draft -- and it was very successful -- I'm willing to grant him the redshirt season.

OK,OK Joisey lets give him a redshirt but answer me this one question. Did he show you anything this preseason? Not against the Colts 3rd and 4th stringers after Rudi and Watson sliced and diced them. In any other game when he was healthy. I know you don't have many to pick from but there must be something. Right?

I'm not arguing that he's shown anything. He may well be the biggest Bengals RB bust this side of Ki-Jana. And even if he does come on, he may not turn out to be better than, say, Stephen Jackson.

But we don't know that one way or the other yet. And looking at the needs we had, DT primary among them, and the performance of all the top-rated DTs in last year's draft, it's hard to argue that that if we'd take player X over Perry we would have done better.

If we had had a higher draft pick last year, then Perry's non-performance would have been an issue; high draft picks bring big contracts. But Perry's got a $7 million contract! If we cut his butt tomorrow he'd be less than $2 million in dead money; we could recoup that by cutting Reggie Kelly after June 1.

To me, Perry just isn't worth complaining about. If he busts he costs us virtually nothing and there's no standout "miss" we could have had. The Perry pick, IMHO, simply isn't worth getting worked up over

[WHO DEY AGAIN?]

But Perry's got a $7 million contract! If we cut his butt tomorrow he'd be less than $2 million in dead money; we could recoup that by cutting Reggie Kelly after June 1.

I just hate to have that contract hanging over our heads. All that money for a guy we didn't even need. He could be a BIG reason we can't get over the 8-8 hump.

[schweinhart]

Perry fumbled his 1st pre-season carry IIRC.

His cut and burst wasn't any more impressive in pre-season than it was in the Rose Bowl last year.

What gets me figuring about Perry is his ability to run routes and catch the ball. That would help open the playcalling a great deal on 1st and 2nd downs unless other teams' D were sure Perry wouldn't run or break free if he did run.

Redshirt it is, but if Rudi goes and either Alexander or Lamont Jordan are not signed, I'm thinking Bengals should draft another 1st rd. RB -- maybe even trade up.

Watson is certainly capable if Perry can't get it together but Bengals would still need another RB in that event and Quincy Wilson might not provide that fix.

[BengalszoneBilly]

but can we possibly, possibly, let a teeny-tiny bit of our Chris-Perry-hate go?

Hate? Nah. Maybe if he wore a Bills uniform. I'm simply utterly disappointed at what we have seen out of him so far, that's all. I see his selection as the #1 pick in the last draft as a wonderful opportunity to improve the Bengals that is seemingly lost, and #1 draft picks don't grow on trees!

Notice my choice of words here, and in other posts...like "so far", and "seemingly". The jury is obviously still out on him, and next season he may have me eating my words about him. I hope he does! Then I'll be wrong about the wasted draft pick, and the Bengals will be the richer for it.

Let me just say this about Chris Perry, and I promise I won't mention him in another post for at least a month:

Does anyone here remember the bulls**t little holdout on signing his contract he pulled on the Bengals? I think most Bengal fans have forgotten that little bit of shananigans he and his agent were guilty of. Well I haven't. If you pull some crap like that, you better be willing, ready and ABLE to show you're worth it. Until you do, I'm gonna be all over your ass about it, and no excuses are exceptable. You threw that option out the window with your "I'm so special that I need a better contract" holdout! Yeah. I'm a hardass. Blame the Marine Corps for that.

Now none of this is enough for me to "hate" him as a person. I will hate it if he does eventually turn out to be the bust he currently seems to me to be.

****now officially letting the topic of Chris Perry go. Sig included. ****

[HoosierCat]

but can we possibly, possibly, let a teeny-tiny bit of our Chris-Perry-hate go?

Hate? Nah. Maybe if he wore a Bills uniform. I'm simply utterly disappointed at what we have seen out of him so far, that's all. I see his selection as the #1 pick in the last draft as a wonderful opportunity to improve the Bengals that is seemingly lost, and #1 draft picks don't grow on trees!

Notice my choice of words here, and in other posts...like "so far", and "seemingly". The jury is obviously still out on him, and next season he may have me eating my words about him. I hope he does! Then I'll be wrong about the wasted draft pick, and the Bengals will be the richer for it.

Let me just say this about Chris Perry, and I promise I won't mention him in another post for at least a month:

Does anyone here remember the bulls**t little holdout on signing his contract he pulled on the Bengals? I think most Bengal fans have forgotten that little bit of shananigans he and his agent were guilty of. Well I haven't. If you pull some crap like that, you better be willing, ready and ABLE to show you're worth it. Until you do, I'm gonna be all over your ass about it, and no excuses are exceptable. You threw that option out the window with your "I'm so special that I need a better contract" holdout! Yeah. I'm a hardass. Blame the Marine Corps for that.

Now none of this is enough for me to "hate" him as a person. I will hate it if he does eventually turn out to be the bust he currently seems to me to be.

****now officially letting the topic of Chris Perry go. Sig included. ****

I hear ya. And yeah, the contract holdout bit was bogus. You get slotted where you were picked, shut up and sign. (Though frankly Ratliff's holdout was far stupider, IMHO.)

Like you said, hopefully Perry hits the field next year and makes the rest of the league look dumb for passing on him. :player: