Sorry but...

[turningpoint]

If shaun Alexander, wants to be here next year, we better sign him over RUDI, the guy is a better RB by a ton.

He's bar non a top 5 back in the NFL, and he does it without showing off or bitching just like RUDI, so why not sign the better RB if the asking price is the same?

Argue that he is older,but we will have a healthy Chris Perry, who can learn under his tutalage(SP?) and take over the position when he grows older. IF he does grow older and slower, IMO he's a younger better Curtis Martin.

[cdnbengals_fan]

I can see Miami going hard at him, maybe even some other teams. But, having alexander would be amazing. Although, Rudi is solid too, and if we could sign him at a decent price/work something out, compared to a high $$$ demand by Alexander, where money can be used somewhere else...I'm not sure about throwing a lot of money at SA. If he wanted to go to Cincy though, and for the right price though, it would be great to have him. Nothing away from Rudi or anything though, who is a great RB and team guy as well, but how money is spent is always a factor.

[chrishcovga]

I'll admit that Rudi ticks me off sometimes too.. he looks like' he's dancing sometimes instead of just hitting the hole as hard as he can..

But a 24 year old running back, is still a 24 year old running back. And his asking price won't be the same as Alexanders' trust me !!

Resign Rudi or Trade him . That's our only real choices !

[turningpoint]

well i hope we franchise him, and then just go after alexander. And then shop him around to a miami, and see if they'll take him for a 1st rounder.

1 proven 24 year old is much more important then a 1st round pick IMO.

[vettespd20]

I was listening to sports talk and they were saying NO WAY POSSIBLE will the bengals sign alexander. He said 100 positive we cant due to money issues. I wish we could though. I heard that he is holding out because he wants to play for marvin? Anyone else hear this and what do u guys think our chances are of getting him?

[Kirkendall]

I can see Rudi coming to Cincy based on the fact this is his home. I really think money will be secondary with him...

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

I can see Rudi coming to Cincy based on the fact this is his home. I really think money will be secondary with him...

Huh? Don't you mean Alexander?

[turningpoint]

I think he does, i also think it's why rudi hasn't been re-uped. I can bet u Alexander has called Marvin personally, but that will never be known.

[jditty47]

alexander is 10 times the back that rudi is.

[Kirkendall]

I can see Rudi coming to Cincy based on the fact this is his home.  I really think money will be secondary with him...

Huh? Don't you mean Alexander?

Yea, thanks for the correction.

[turningpoint]

yeah also is perry fit better into the this lineup then rudi, then alexander has to be a 10x better back then RUDI, because alexander is a pass catching outside speed running rb who can also pound into in the middle for those 3 hard earned runs.

Anyways let's pray the seahawks have to tag walter jones.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

He's bar non a top 5 back in the NFL, and he does it without showing off or bitching just like RUDI, so why not sign the better RB if the asking price is the same?

I love how all the Rudi whiners/bashers come out after he gets stuffed due to a TERRIBLE o-line but are nowhere to be found after he has one of his numerous 100+ yard days.

Reactionaries.

Also, when has Rudi EVER "bitched?" When has Rudi ever done anything but do his job?

You guys think Alexander could've avoided the 2-3 guys in the backfield Sunday every time he got the ball? Pfft, are you people actually WATCHING the game?

Rudi is a top 10 back easily. Dillon had the SAME PROBLEMS here last year if you recall (those with apparently short memories).

Dillon would literally have a 30 yard effort followed by a 130 yard game all the time it seemed the last 2 years he was here. Yet everyone is singing his praises now that he's behind the best 0-line in the NFL.

Rudi isn't flashy or big but give him at least a slither of daylight and he'll get the yards he needs to - continue with this patchwork piece of crap o-line and o-line coach and you will continue to see Palmer with busted knees and Rudi struggling just to get out of the backfield.

Why can't people on this board ever look at the real problem and that is the o-line and it has been all year. The great skill players on this team make them look good and have been at times.

Finally you need TWO good RB's just like you need 2 capable Qb's and 3 capable WR's.

The Bengals' are not as hard up for money as many make them out to be - the

"poor poor Bengals" mantra gets old. Quit making excuses for the cheapness of Mike Brown.

That said i'd be more than happy to have Alexander here over Rudi, but I'm not going to diss' Rudi or what he's done here and see no reason to doubt he'll do well here or elsewhere. And I would be perfectly happy if they re-sign him because he'll have another 1300+ yard season and why people don't think that's good enough here is beyond me.

When Dillon had a 1300 yard season here everyone wanted to lick his jock and proclaimed him the new Jesus Christ. When Rudi does exactly the same thing - but gets even more yards behind an aging and fraile o-line, people don't think he's good enough despite the fact he is in the top 8 in rushing over-all.

Alright enough of rant but I'm sick of this garbage when people can't back up their opinons with sound logic, facts, reason or statistics of any kind whatsoever.

[BengalszoneBilly]

alexander is 10 times the back that rudi is.

Ten times!?! C'mon...that's overstating the situation a little, don't you think?

Here's the seasons stats:

Rank......Player............Team..Yds....Att...Avg...TDs...Long

#1...Shaun Alexander....SEA...1616..334...4.8.....15....44

#6.....Rudi Johnson........CIN...1335..333...4.1......9.....44

I say if Rudi ran behind the same line as Mr. Alexander did, his numbers might have been even better than Shauns! Cincy's offensive line didn't do as well as they did last year, IMHO!

[HoosierCat]

I love how all the Rudi whiners/bashers come out after he gets stuffed due to a TERRIBLE o-line but are nowhere to be found after he has one of his numerous 100+ yard days.

And I love how all the Rudi uber alles crowd can't wait to ladle praise on him when he goes over 100, then does nothing but whine about the o-line when he gets stuffed. And I'm not sure how Bobby Williams, Eric Steinbach or Levi Jones are "old" or Willie Anderson "frail." Braham might qualify for both, only problem there is that they play better with him in than out!

But you're right: it is all about the o-line. Go look at Rudi's totals for this year, then go look at Dillon's from about any year. You'll find they follow the same wildly up-and-down patterns. That's a pretty strong indication that the success of our running game isn't dependent on who's carrying the ball, but on who's blocking (or not blocking, as the case may be) for him.

I'd love to have Rudi back, but as far as our rushing game is concerned I consider improving the o-line to be a higher priority and one that's likely to yield far more benefits.

[The Brew Man]

Im with Shula Steakhouse on this one, the O-line was bad sunday, real bad. Rudi had nowhere to run and still managed a couple nice carries.

We need to re-sign Rudi! Alexander will command a couple million more at least I think.

[jditty47]

alexander is 10 times the back that rudi is.

Ten times!?! C'mon...that's overstating the situation a little, don't you think?

Here's the seasons stats:

Rank......Player............Team..Yds....Att...Avg...TDs...Long

#1...Shaun Alexander....SEA...1616..334...4.8.....15....44

#6.....Rudi Johnson........CIN...1335..333...4.1......9.....44

I say if Rudi ran behind the same line as Mr. Alexander did, his numbers might have been even better than Shauns! Cincy's offensive line didn't do as well as they did last year, IMHO!

alexander has an ability that rudi does not possess. the ability to make ppl miss. rudi is a downhill runner, hes good at it when he has a hole and space.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

And I love how all the Rudi uber alles crowd can't wait to ladle praise on him when he goes over 100, then does nothing but whine about the o-line when he gets stuffed. And I'm not sure how Bobby Williams, Eric Steinbach or Levi Jones are "old" or Willie Anderson "frail." Braham might qualify for both, only problem there is that they play better with him in than out!

I would call Braham, Levi, Willie and Steinbach all injury prone/fraile for lineman - they are tough and play through it but none of them are hardly ever 100%. Steinbach has had a history of injuries in college and why he slipped in the draft. He has already had major elbow surgery after just one year in the league and still hasn't regained his form or strength (expected under circumstances).

I would desperately try to replace Braham (of course) and Bobbie Williams at least. If a stud LT comes your way and you can move Levi to G, I would seriously consider that as well.

I would also replace Paul Alexander ASAP because, well, he's awful and the 0-line needs a new direction, too much underachieving and lack of development amongst the draftees. Levi and Steinbach in particular have NOT performed to their potential or as they were expected. Goff is another case of someone who is playing better elsewhere than he ever did here.

Why would people NOT praise Rudi after a great game?

Know how many top 10 defenses Alexander has faced this year? TWO

Know how many top 10 defenses Rudi has faced this year? NINE

You people don't think Alexander would also have his share of 30 yard duds? (and Rudi has had less 30 yard dud games than corey ever did the last two years).

The Giants are not a good defensive team at all and yet they chewed the Bengals' o-line like swiss cheese. Something's not right there, too many bad games from them this season.

[jjakq27]

I wouldn't be surprised to see that Levi (knee), Steinbach (elbow) and Willie (knee)all have surgery this off-season. I think all three have been playing hurt the entire year. Add Braham to that list and that's 80% of the starting O-Line.

Not knowing all of the back room planning, I would have taken Jake Grove instead of Perry with the first pick. I know he was a second rounder but he was gone before we got to our 1st second round pick.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

hes good at it when he has a hole and space.

You could say that about any NFL RB.

So Rudi never gets tough yards, runs through arm tackles, or gains anything unless he's got a wide open hole and no one's touching him? Have you watched a game this year?

In fact considering this porous o-line, they better have someone as resilient/tough as Rudi who can get the 3-5 yards per crack when there's not much there.

Alright I'll stop, I think my point is made to whomever cares or doesn't want to get invovled in player bashing or flame wars.

[HoosierCat]

I would call Braham, Levi, Willie and Steinbach all injury prone/fraile for lineman - they are tough and play through it but none of them are hardly ever 100%. Steinbach has had a history of injuries in college and why he slipped in the draft. He has already had major elbow surgery after just one year in the league and still hasn't regained his form or strength (expected under circumstances).

I would desperately try to replace Braham (of course) and Bobbie Williams at least. If a stud LT comes your way and you can move Levi to G, I would seriously consider that as well.

I would also replace Paul Alexander ASAP because, well, he's awful and the 0-line needs a new direction, too much underachieving and lack of development amongst the draftees. Levi and Steinbach in particular have NOT performed to their potential or as they were expected. Goff is another case of someone who is playing better elsewhere than he ever did here.

I would differ with you in your characterization of the o-line (someone who says a player is frail and tough at the same time has problems understanding basic English) but let that pass. Let's accept the above 100%: our whole o-line stinks and needs to be replaced. If so, then Rudi should indeed be allowed to walk, and every cent available put toward the o-line. Fortunately, I don't think the line is in need of that complete an overhaul, and so some room for Rudi still exists, IMHO.

[HoosierCat]

A glance backwards, which may or may not be of any use, but I found interesting.

Going back to 1978, when they increased the season to 16 games, the Bengals have had 13 seasons with a 1,000+ yard back, and 13 seasons without one. (Note this is skipping the '82 strike season and assuming an 8-8 finish this year with, of course, Rudi as the 1,000+ yard back).

A couple things are notable. First, the Bengals have never had a winning season (at least since '78) without also having a 1,000-yard back. However, since they've had only 4 winning seasons since 1978, it's hard to say whether that's significant or not.

Collectively, over the 13 seasons with a 1,000+ yard back, the Bengals are 90-118, or about 7-9 on average. Without a 1,000-yard rusher, they're 72-135, or about 6-10.

All things considered, I continue to lean toward putting our resources into the lines and not worrying about RB. If we end up with Rudi (or Alexander or some other "stud" back) fine, but it doesn't appear it makes a big difference if we end up with an RB committee.

[ckj414]

A glance backwards, which may or may not be of any use, but I found interesting.

Going back to 1978, when they increased the season to 16 games, the Bengals have had 13 seasons with a 1,000+ yard back, and 13 seasons without one. (Note this is skipping the '82 strike season and assuming an 8-8 finish this year with, of course, Rudi as the 1,000+ yard back).

A couple things are notable. First, the Bengals have never had a winning season (at least since '78) without also having a 1,000-yard back. However, since they've had only 4 winning seasons since 1978, it's hard to say whether that's significant or not.

Collectively, over the 13 seasons with a 1,000+ yard back, the Bengals are 90-118, or about 7-9 on average. Without a 1,000-yard rusher, they're 72-135, or about 6-10.

All things considered, I continue to lean toward putting our resources into the lines and not worrying about RB. If we end up with Rudi (or Alexander or some other "stud" back) fine, but it doesn't appear it makes a big difference if we end up with an RB committee.

Good work Joisey, but one thing I would note for those trying to interpret these stats - teams tend to run when they win, not win when they run. Most fans are mislead that great teams are great at running the ball - not necessarily true, they're just more likely to have a lead and therefore to be safely handing the ball off to their runningback. The stat that has the greatest correlation to winning? - yards/pass attempt. Rudi won't help much in that respect. I don't see the point of keeping him around at his asking price.

[HoosierCat]

Good work Joisey, but one thing I would note for those trying to interpret these stats - teams tend to run when they win, not win when they run. Most fans are mislead that great teams are great at running the ball - not necessarily true, they're just more likely to have a lead and therefore to be safely handing the ball off to their runningback. The stat that has the greatest correlation to winning? - yards/pass attempt. Rudi won't help much in that respect. I don't see the point of keeping him around at his asking price.

You're absolutely right about how teams run when they win. I was mostly interested in if there was a long-term correlation, which there doesn't appear to be. I only glanced at the receiver stats while I was looking at this, but it did seem that having a 1,000+ yard receiver was more crucial to a .500 or better record. I'll have to go back & look at the numbers again. That ought to provide a way to blow off an hour of work tomorrow!

[Kirkendall]

Why do we have to pay someone 3 yr. $17 mil when we can get some guy with $1.2 per year to get the same result? OF COURSE -- this is if you consider the offensive line an intregal part of the game (silly me)..

If Rudi can pick up 3rd and 1's on a regular basis behind the same offensive line, then heck yea, I'd pay him that money. But he doesn't.

Just sound business logic to me.

ckj414 - I like your statement about rushing attemps based on wins and losses. On games the Bengals have won, Rudi has rushed 167 total times (23.8 times per game) On games the Bengals have lost, Rudi has rushed 167 total times (20.8 times per game).