Kirkendall Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Ok, I concede. My defense of Bonds is done. I tried to look at it objectively, albiet naively, giving Bonds the benefit of the doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Ok, I concede. My defense of Bonds is done. I tried to look at it objectively, albiet naively, giving Bonds the benefit of the doubt. That's mighty mature of you there Josh. Of course we're still not 100% positive about him taking steroids, but I think it's about 99.99% likely that he's a lying bastard, and he's known all along that it WASN'T flax seed oil, or something for arthritis.I felt he was lying from the first time he was asked about it on camera! He went from calm to major pissed off in less than a heartbeat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted December 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Now compare the original photo with this with the Pirates: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted December 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 The comparisons, even though span about 13-14 years, are remarkably different. I'm all for the support side of having gained mass if you work diligently for that length of time, but then you have to look at his Giants photo in '93 or '94 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Geeze! Just look how big his head (literally) went from the earlier pics! I bet that's at least a full hat size! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted December 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Geeze! Just look how big his head (literally) went from the earlier pics! I bet that's at least a full hat size! I think it was 3 sizes bigger. I actually heard that in some report a while back when everything came to the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jditty47 Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 he took them and knew about it. hes just trying to defend his stance in the hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 The Hall? Bonds will now never ever make it into the Hall, and the SOB doesn't deserve it. Pete Rose should be in the Hall before him (I'm no Pete Rose fan either) That just ain't natural the way bonds grew. While I'd say it might be possible for him to get that big over years with the right nutrition and legit supplements, it wouldn't be easy, and it wouldn't make his head any bigger....damn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Of course we're still not 100% positive about him taking steroids, but I think it's about 99.99% likely that he's a lying bastard, and he's known all along that it WASN'T flax seed oil, or something for arthritis.That was a laugh-out-loud line, wasn't it? What a schmuck. Y'know, if he'd just admit it and apologize it'd all blow over and he'd at least get points for honesty. Instead, he decides the best course of action is to insult everyone's intelligence... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted December 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Y'know, if he'd just admit it and apologize it'd all blow over and he'd at least get points for honesty I don't know JC, he hold a lot records now. If he did come clean I wonder what they'd do the records -- knowing MLB, they'd probably do nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Y'know, if he'd just admit it and apologize it'd all blow over and he'd at least get points for honestyI don't know JC, he hold a lot records now. If he did come clean I wonder what they'd do the records -- knowing MLB, they'd probably do nothing. At worst he gets an asterisk by his records. Like they say in politics, it's not the crime, it's the cover-up. If you get caught, 'fess up and take your lumps. Especially if the only lies you can come up with are, like Bonds', laughable. All he's done is compound his mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jditty47 Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 yep he'll be in the hall. they cant prove him guilty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam31 Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Of course we're still not 100% positive about him taking steroids, but I think it's about 99.99% likely that he's a lying bastard, and he's known all along that it WASN'T flax seed oil, or something for arthritis.That was a laugh-out-loud line, wasn't it? What a schmuck. Y'know, if he'd just admit it and apologize it'd all blow over and he'd at least get points for honesty. Instead, he decides the best course of action is to insult everyone's intelligence... And admit that he lied to a grand jury? Um no. Bonds knew what he was taking too, he just cant come clean now. I don't condone what Bonds has done, I have always defended him but not anymore. These 'roids helped keep him young when Father Time should have set in.That being said, he is still the greatest hitter of our generation. Giambi was a chump and is a chump now. Bonds knew what he was taking too, he just cant come clean now. Bottom line to me is that its messed up and every player not named Ken Griffey since 1990 should have an asterisk by their name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 And admit that he lied to a grand jury? Um no. Bonds knew what he was taking too, he just cant come clean now. Of course he can. They probably wouldn't bother pursuing a perjury charge, and even if they did the result would be a slap on the wrist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalsfan33 Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 All I can say is that it's about time these guys start telling the truth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted December 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 At worst he gets an asterisk by his records. It's the more widespread opinion that this should happen -- which from all the obvious, yet deeply sentimental thinking curses ourselves for not being more aggressive to making the history and records of MLB more sacred.If MLB is stupid, willing to appease the critics without the long term vision of righting the wrong, then they'd put an asterisk next to his name and all is forgotten -- until our sons look up at us and say, 'dad, why is there a mark next to that man's name?' Then we tell him, yes son, it's because that man did a bad thing and boosted his body through artificial means, yet he was great -- hint hint to the overall social problems with professional athletes and their influences (not enough time, so I move on). Seems to me MLB isn't worried about the traditions of baseball, call it the age of helplessism if you will with the Union taking role of Mike Brown and MLB taking the role of the fans, because they continue to let these major issues disappear without addressing them. If MLB was smart, they would ban Bonds, and anyone else, remove their names from the records and move on. The way I look at it, if Bonds was willing to take roids to get an edge, then he should be damned willing to remove himself from the game's history and curse himself for blowing the game into a hurricane of discontent. Whether there was a rule in place or not, it doesn't matter. Any drug illegal in the US, or respective states HAVE to be followed in his moral objectives and all players. This has got to stop and MLB needs to make a stand. Selig needs to use his 'in the best interest of baseball' clause which overrides the unions voice. Use it, ban EVERY growth hormone, ban everyone involved in BALCO that's admitted to using the growth hormone, remove their names from the history books, and force all the guilty players to forfeit remaining contracts. Yes yes, I know. It's a little rough. But right now, on a range from 1-10, baseball's credibility ranks at about a 1. They have none. In fact, most people believe correctly the MLBPA (Union) has more of a voice in baseball than MLB. If there's problems, then Selig should take the losses on the chin and fold this season and others if neccessary to redefine the labor-mlb contract making it more MLB friendly to save the game already lost in millions of Americans.OK, that should give ya enough quotes for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 If that's what you think needs to happen, kirk, I'll back ya (for whatever that's worth in the eyes of MLB ) I quit paying any serious attention to baseball years ago when the salary situation got completely out of hand. And frankly next to that the steroid issue is a drop in the bucket. Or maybe a symptom: since only a few teams with big bucks can really challenge for the title anymore, fans spend more time following individual players than teams? I dunno, like I said, I don't really pay much attention to the sport anymore.As for 'roids, shoot, y'know what I think? Legalize 'em all. Let these dopes (literally) shoot themselves up with all the chemicals they want. I remember reading a story years ago on steroid use in the pro wresting world (ya think?) and all the screwed-up stuff that happens to people. When baseball stars start dropping dead before 30 because of the stuff, or going off on 'roid rages on their teammates, or getting caught having carnal knowledge of a soda machine's coin return (an anecdote from the aforementioned article), then we may finally get a real, enforceable ban. But right now, you're right, kirk, the MLB's position appears to be a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningpoint Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 IMO who cares if he did the roids?how many people do you know can hit a 90MPH fast ball? you think he can hit a 90mph fastball because of roids.. well bring on the roids to me so i can go give it a try and i bet u i will miss it it about 45 times out of 50. now on top of this imagine 8 guys in front of you trying to catch this ball u r hitting and u still manage to hit .340. this isn't even including strikes out and bad pitches....anyways MLB hasn't done roid ttesting because really this sport isn't a contact sport like football where u gain a real ADV using roids, IMO WHOCARES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 IMO who cares if he did the roids?how many people do you know can hit a 90MPH fast ball? you think he can hit a 90mph fastball because of roids.. well bring on the roids to me so i can go give it a try and i bet u i will miss it it about 45 times out of 50. now on top of this imagine 8 guys in front of you trying to catch this ball u r hitting and u still manage to hit .340. this isn't even including strikes out and bad pitches....anyways MLB hasn't done roid ttesting because really this sport isn't a contact sport like football where u gain a real ADV using roids, IMO WHOCARES Get a clue. How the hell come they are taking it if it doesn't help? Hitting the ball takes skill, yes, all the roids in the world ain't gonna do but so much, but the power you hit the ball with is greatly multiplied with the extra power. Plus the advantage in getting over injuries faster...roids ain't just about bigger muscles. Look at McGuire...He hit home runs, but he didn't break Maris' record until he got pretty damn big....And trust me, Andro didn't do it. Do you think Bonds could have hit those homeruns with 20 less pounds on his frame? No. It's called physics..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 who cares if he did the roids? Who cares? The honest answer to that is far, far more people than the ones that don't care, I can assure you of that! Why do they care? Because abusing steroids can KILL YOU! (Not that cigarettes which ARE legal can't kill you, but that's a topic for another "hypocrisy" based discussion ) Have you ever heard of Lyle Alzado? He was a star LB for the Raiders in the '70. Well he's been dead for many years now. Would you care to take a guess on what they determined it was that put him in the grave at a relatively early age? I'll bet right before Lyle died on that day, even if he never cared before...he certainly cared then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semiotter Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Man what a player LYLE A. was man i sure hated to see him go like that. The pictures of him at the end were really sad!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted December 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 The question isn't how far you can hit the ball, but the bat speed generated from the increased strength -- players can sit longer on pitches, take shorter swings and generate more bat speed, etc...how many people do you know can hit a 90MPH fast ball? you think he can hit a 90mph fastball because of roids.. well bring on the roids to me so i can go give it a try and i bet u i will miss it it about 45 times out of 50.The question isn't comparing average Joe's to professional baseball players. These guys are in the majors because they can hit the 90 MPH fastball. We're NOT in MLB because we can't hit the 90 MPH fastball. Legalize 'em all. Let these dopes (literally) shoot themselves up with all the chemicals they want.I know the point your making, and the sarcasm dripping from your post so I'm not going to say anything directly to you, but I am to those that actually think this should happen. The problem with legalizing any growth enhancement provides an instance disadvantage to those that don't want to take them because they actually want to take care of their body's. The NFL didn't have a problem with 'roids in Lyle's day because it wasn't illegal. Once the NFL saw the damage done to the players, and the potential social problems with athletes and children (like it or not, both will forever be connected) the NFL rightly decided to cut this from their sport. Thank god they did... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbrooks21 Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 turningpoint get real - I heard on ESPN Radio that Bonds had like 20 some 400 ft bombs after taking roids and only 2 THATS RIGHT 2 his whole career before that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi05 Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Barry Bonds is a great baseball player, if not the greatest of all time, i wish people would just realize that instead of trying to come up with reasons for why it is. I am not condoning steroids in any way, but ill bet there are many players in the league taking steroids who are not all-stars, if it were that easy, we would all go stick a needle in our butts, and hit 73 hr's in a season. I know he might not have the greatest personality in baseball or be the most likeable player, but if anyone says that he's not a great player, they obviously know nothing about the game. I see nothing more wrong with steroids, than with cigarettes or alcahol, but those are both legal so its supposedly okay, but cigarettes are every bit as deadly as steroids. now that ive got that all out i feel better, lol. but really i respect most peoples opinions in this board and usually agree with the majority, but im in the minority with bonds i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted December 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 I am not condoning steroids in any way, but ill bet there are many players in the league taking steroids who are not all-stars, if it were that easy, we would all go stick a needle in our butts, and hit 73 hr's in a season.No excuse. Minor league players aren't as good as Bonds, and Bonds is the one in question; not any ifs ands or buts. It is what it is and needs to be resolved before anymore tainting of the game is involved.I know he might not have the greatest personality in baseball or be the most likeable player, but if anyone says that he's not a great player, they obviously know nothing about the game.No doubt he's a great player, why then is he taking roids? I've been baffled with that question still. I see nothing more wrong with steroids, than with cigarettes or alcahol, but those are both legal so its supposedly okay, but cigarettes are every bit as deadly as steroids.Cigs or booze are not in question here and are LEGAL by law of the United States -- unlike Steroids. It's not about the well-being of players -- if it were, they'd have banned it years ago. It's about competitive edge by these players shortening up their swing, creating more bat speed... Jason Giambi coming into the league was expected to be a more double hitter, kinda like Sean Casey, and became a power hitter. but really i respect most peoples opinions in this board and usually agree with the majority, but im in the minority with bonds i guess.Seriously dude, I was on the side of giving Bonds the benefit. I argued tooth and nail that he was legit. Bonds let me down and I just came to my senses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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