big names gaining ground

[bengalboomer7]

Add up today with the rest of the season and both Chad and Rudi are moving into the top five to eight in some major offensive categories (I'd add it up but I hate math) and CJ's would probably be better with Warrick and Rudi's would definitely be detter if Bratkowski wasn't calling the plays. I've said it before, I'll say it again, THE FUTURE LOOKS BRIGHT!

[Barbarian]

CJ's would probably be better with Warrick and Rudi's would definitely be detter if Bratkowski wasn't calling the plays

Lemme add to this:

THE DEFENSIVE NUMBERS WOULD BE BETTER IF DRUNKOWSKI WASN'T CALLING THE PLAYS. Consecutive 3 and outs for the offense (because of Bob Drunkowski's stupidity) usually means that the defense is left out there too long. Hence, all the rushing yardage against the Bungles. Opposing teams' Offensive Coordinators (with the exception of the Turds today) knows that it's not going to be hard to control the TOP from the Bungles due to having a better play selection. Running the ball against the Bungles is the perfect way of beating them--due to the Run Defense not being so good and Drunkowski's pitiful play calling.

If in doubt--see the Titans and Squeelers Game.

[WhoDey42]

Nothin like havin Barb puttin his negative spin on a postive post.

[Barbarian]

Nothin like havin Barb puttin his negative spin on a postive post.

It wasn't negative, jerkoff. It was actually positive. I stated that without Drunkowski's playcalling, the whole team would be better. If you're lost, read it again.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Chad Johnson is now 4th in the league in both yardage and receptions.

Rudi Johnson is at #6, just 72 yards behind Leon.

Graham is #2 in the league in kicking.

James is #1 in the league in interceptions.

Cincinnati's defense is now #3 in the league in takeaways, having fallen from #1 over the last two weekends. However, we are also now #7 in the league in NET takeaways, at +6. (The downside being that we are also #7 in the league in total giveaways).

Over all, it's starting to look good. Berman said Geathers could be a candidate for rookie of the year if he could beat out Williams last night too!

[skyline]

Berman said Geathers could be a candidate for rookie of the year if he could beat out Williams last night too!

I've heard that in a couple of different places. Pretty surprising, I think.

[kingwilly]

Unfortunately, scoring 58,000 points yesterday makes Brat look, to the uninformed, like an offensive genius. Nothing could be further form the truth. Let's not forget the second half droughts that made the last few games feel like a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde exercise.

If there are any doubters, just go back through the play-by-play for the last few games and take a looksy. He calls one of the worst games in the NFL. End-arounds, terrible 3rd down calls, telegraphing runs and passes with personnel and really, really, really, really, really, really, really horribel red-zone playcalling as there has ever been.

With the talent that Brat has on offense, he should be able to score 30 points a game with his eyes shut. If Brat went bye-bye, I would not complain.

[skyline]

I think he'll still be around...

If not then I really hope they get someone in with the same scheme, because I don't want Palmer having to learn a new offense. It'll be like his 1st year all over again

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Brat isn't going anywhere. In fact, none of the coaches are going anywhere. Our losses aren't coaching problems as much as they have been player miscues.

[Barbarian]

Brat isn't going anywhere. In fact, none of the coaches are going anywhere. Our losses aren't coaching problems as much as they have been player miscues.

Oh, that's good. And to someone not paying attention, this would be the case.

What a horrible post.

So, you like Bob Drunkowski's playcalling, Next?????

Jesus. I'm just sitting here shaking my head @ the stupidity of some fans.

[shapu]

Gotta say that Brat's the reason this team has only scored 24 points at most this season (not counting the Browns game).

This isn't player miscues - this is bad coaching.

Since 2001, the bengals have the following ranks in yards/per game offensively:

2001: 23

2002: 18

2003: 13

2004: 23 (and that's WITH yesterday's scorefest)

Since 2001, the Bengals have the following ranks in terms of points per game, offensive:

2001: 31 (last in the league! Woohoo!)

2002: 28

2003: 13

2004: 11th (with yesterday's game)

(if you factor out yesterday's game, we were scoring 18.3 points a game, which is good for 25th in the league)

The simple fact is that ranking 11th in points does not win divisions. Ranking 23rd in yards per game does not take you to the playoffs.

And it should also be noted that this team has not finished a season above 13th in either category with Brat at the helm.

I'm sorry, but Bratkowski's inability to call a good game is THE single biggest factor holding back the team's offense. When in doubt as to why something doesn't work, look to the constants. Brat is the constant on this offense.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

And it should also be noted that this team has not finished a season above 13th in either category with Brat at the helm.

Funny no one ever mentions Paul Alexander, who has been here even longer, and has an under-performing o-line that is constantly overshadowed by high paid, high draft pick skill players.

I honestly think the offensive woes (even though they averaged 24 PPG most of last season from what I remember) are a direct result of the 0-line's inability to do their jobs consistently....and Alexander still has yet to develop any sort of mid-round or top 3 round draft pick into their potential... unless they are just that good coming out of college (Steinbach, Willie - who was drafted before he got here any ways from what I remember).

In other words, he needs to go....bad. But his kiss a$$ attitude with the Brown family will keep him a job here.

[HoosierCat]

With the talent that Brat has on offense, he should be able to score 30 points a game with his eyes shut.

This is where I disagree. This offense has the potential to be a scoring machine, but is still too young and still has too many holes to realize that potential. We have no worthwhile TE. We have no reliable 3rd down/posession receiver. We have a rookie QB. We have a feature receiver who, after dropping multiple passes against Cleveland a few weeks ago admitted he wasn't on the same page as the new QB. We have a one-dimensional feature back. We have a banged-up o-line with several questionable players (Williams, Braham, Levi).

Sunday showed us they were capable of kicking tail, but they were given beaucoup help by Cleveland's poor defensive play, something they're unlikely to see out of a Baltimore or New England team.

Given the personnel, Brat's stuff works; witness the string of wins they ripped off last year when Kitna finally clicked.

[shapu]

Last year's win streak had a lot to do with Rudi's running as well.

Yes, Alexander is often ignored in terms of the offense's poor play - but even when the o-line is blocking well, and whoever the back is is averaging 4-per, the offense still has a tendency to get away from the run in the second half, regardless of score...when this team runs the ball, well or otherwise, it wins.

EDIT to replace "kitna's" with "rudi's"

[Tampa Bengal]

I'm not a huge fan of Brat's but I will give credit where its due. The game against the Browns was great. Finally some trick plays and not the predictable run Rudi up the middle on 3rd down.

[Kirkendall]

Some of you guys put way too much value into stats. Would only 16 passing touchdowns be a bad year? What if each touchdown won each game?

I've been a very outspoken critic of Brat, but gaining 504 yards on offense makes one forget about past transgressions. Could Brat be "growing" just like everyone else? Shouldn't he be given the opportunity to redeem his past failures? I vote yes. Well 504 makes me vote yes, for now.

[chrishcovga]

I gotta top Josh on this one, So far no one has mentioned How Well John Kitna evolved in Bob Bratkowski's offense.

- I mean John Kitna is the prototype ( How the hell did that guy become a starting quarterback in the NFL ) guy. But his season last year was all but miraculous. Kitna had been in that offense for over 5 years. He got better each year in it here, so Why shouldn't we expect the same for Carson Palmer.

Right now ( stat geeks ) Carson has 13 td's and 16 int's. If he can end the season with like 18 and 18 or 20 and 20 , then it shows basically the same progress that Kitna made over his tenure in the system.

We're watching Carson Palmer evolve from passer into " Quarterback ". 5-6 with several games only decided really by one mistake because of inexperience. Once CP truly grasps this offense like John Kitna did, then he'll have the ability ala Kitna did to know when to play the play called or audible into runs etc.

* Room for optimism...? Yes, why because sooner or later, we're going to find a Tight end that can block and get open and make defenses pay! A lot of youth on offense, so the core for greatness is there! :player:

[Barbarian]

I gotta top Josh on this one, So far no one has mentioned How Well John Kitna evolved in Bob Bratkowski's offense.

- I mean John Kitna is the prototype ( How the hell did that guy become a starting quarterback in the NFL ) guy. But his season last year was all but miraculous. Kitna had been in that offense for over 5 years. He got better each year in it here, so Why shouldn't we expect the same for Carson Palmer.

Right now ( stat geeks ) Carson has 13 td's and 16 int's. If he can end the season with like 18 and 18 or 20 and 20 , then it shows basically the same progress that Kitna made over his tenure in the system.

We're watching Carson Palmer evolve from passer into " Quarterback ". 5-6 with several games only decided really by one mistake because of inexperience. Once CP truly grasps this offense like John Kitna did, then he'll have the ability ala Kitna did to know when to play the play called or audible into runs etc.

* Room for optimism...? Yes, why because sooner or later, we're going to find a Tight end that can block and get open and make defenses pay! A lot of youth on offense, so the core for greatness is there! :player:

I'll give Drunkowski this:

If Palmer keeps on passing the ball, he's going to develop into a machine QB in the next couple of years. I still think that it's way stupid to keep passing the ball with an inexperienced QB in there--it leads to turnovers and it keeps our QB in last place for the AFC in the turnover column.

If Drunkowski keeps it up, Palmer will surpass Marc Bulger's 22 INTs in his 1st year.

That's just plain stupid. Mike Martz-like stupid.

We'll see in the next 4 weeks.

[HoosierCat]

chrish:

I gotta top Josh on this one, So far no one has mentioned How Well John Kitna evolved in Bob Bratkowski's offense.

Absolutely. And even more than that, simply his six years of experience, which goes to shapu's point about the importance of his running. He has a better sense of when to take off than Carson has developed yet. Hobson hit on the same point in his most recent letter on the site:

10/4/2004 - Somebody send a memo to Bratkowski that in the NFL, tight ends can be eligible receivers. Is it by design they are not involved in the passing game or is Palmer just not looking for them. I don't recall seeing a tight end running down feild into the secondary against Pittsburg. No wonder our receivers are double covered. The defensive secondary has our receivers outnumbered three to one.

Sam, Germantown, Ohio.

SAM: Given that Bob Bratkowski, the Bengals offensive coordinator, lobbied long and hard for more help at tight end when Marvin Lewis came in and then presided over the club’s rejuvenation at the position last year, don’t bother to send the memo. He knows and is trying to get more out of a spot that had just 28 catches going into the Cleveland game.

The tight ends are a big part of this offense, as Matt Schobel has shown at key times, particularly on third down. Since Bratkowski also called the plays last year when they combined for 58 catches, one would have to conclude that Carson Palmer doesn’t look for, or see, the tight ends as often as Jon Kitna, and that Bratkowski knows the value of them.

Finding the second and third options comes from experience and just plain getting snaps. But it also gives a glimpse of Palmer’s mindset. He’s got a big-play mentality, and it seems at times that he’ll hold it longer than he should, or throw it down field to even if the target is well covered rather than take the safe, short passes.

Since the Bengals rarely give their offensive tackles help in pass protection on third down, he’s usually got a tight end as an option.

Finding the tight end and the running backs consistently seems to be a part of the growing process. He did it three weeks ago in the 26-3 win over Dallas, when most of his 21 completions were for eight yards or less. But he didn’t do it last week, when a dump pass on third down would have resulted in a Bengals punt rather than a Steelers touchdown.

You’ve got to like the aggressive thinking. But he’s got to find a balance. Bratkowski, Lewis, and the offensive staff knew going into this season that no matter the Xs and Os, the kid would have to learn his ABCs on the job in Year One.

A couple more pieces, a little more time, and this offense ought to be something special.

[membengal]

For what it's worth, in Peyton Manning's first year he had 26 TD passes and 28 INTs. They won three games.

For as hard as we all are on Palmer, he is playing just fine relative to others who have gone before him at that position.

[Barbarian]

For what it's worth, in Peyton Manning's first year he had 26 TD passes and 28 INTs. They won three games.

For as hard as we all are on Palmer, he is playing just fine relative to others who have gone before him at that position.

I must be the only one on here that DOES support Carson. He's on his way to becoming a good if not great QB in the NFL.

I absolutely dispise Drunkowski and his dumbassed playcalling though. Change a couple of those plays and Palmer could be rookie of the year.

[kingwilly]

Let's agree here. Carson is doing as well as any of us could hope for in essentially a rookie QB. Give or take some mental mistakes, this team could be 8-3 (NY, TEN and either of the PIT games).

To illustrate my crititcism of Brat, I submit for examination the possession where we kicked our first field goal on Sunday.

Cincinnati Bengals at 04:11

1-10-CLE19 (4:11) R.Johnson right guard to CLV 12 for 7 yards (K.Lang; C.Thompson).

2-3-CLE12 (3:35) R.Johnson left tackle to CLV 5 for 7 yards (E.Little).

1-5-CLE5 (2:48) PENALTY on CIN-C.Johnson, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CLV 5 - No Play.

1-10-CLE10 (2:32) R.Johnson right end to CLV 5 for 5 yards (A.McKinley; D.McCutcheon).

2-5-CLE5 (2:00) R.Johnson left guard to CLV 3 for 2 yards (A.McKinley).

3-3-CLE3 (1:27) C.Palmer pass incomplete to T.Houshmandzadeh.

4-3-CLE3 (1:20) S.Graham 21 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-B.St. Louis, Holder-K.Larson.

CLE 13 CIN 24, Plays: 6 Yards: 16 Possession: 2:54.

Hindsight is 20/20 but when you have Rudi and have 3rd and 3 from the 3, WTF do you call a pass? I saw the play and it was s**t.

It is always tough to criticize someone who called a game to the tune of 500+ yards, yes I agree, but for Brat it is like a blind squirrel finding a nut every now and again, it is bound to happen. Take a look at the play calling from the first Ravens game, and notice our red zone calls. Total crap. Take a look at most of the games. Mostly crappy play calls. I cannot be convinced other wise. It is not simply a matter of if the players had executed the play, the hard fact is that the plays do not catch anyone off guard or are too easily read and the D out-executes our team. The Dallas game, the Wash game, utterly miserable second halfs of play calling.

I think what we have here is that Brat has gotten by with trying to make chicken salad out of chicken s**t. To a starving Bengals fan, he thinks we can't taste the difference. Sorry Brat, the play calling is predictable, the end-arounds don't work or set-up the next play, and your inability to adhere to running the ball because you have a 911 GT3 for a QB is obvious.

Against Cleveland, we ran 32 times and passed 29 times. I think this is the most balanced game we had all year. If Carson does not throw the pics, this game is a blowout. Once we get the lead, run, run, run, run, run, run. Sunday, the blind squirrel found a nut.

[Kirkendall]

Let's agree here. Carson is doing as well as any of us could hope for in essentially a rookie QB. Give or take some mental mistakes

You make an interesting point that I must make mention of. If this is true, then what exactly was the point in having Carson sit the first year?

[HoosierCat]

I really can't argue with the playcalling on that series, willy. I mean, you have four runs and one pass in the red zone. And you have to think they're expecting run on 3rd and goal from the 3, so taking a shot through the air isn't a far-fetched call, IMHO.

This drive did frustrate me, tho, because of Chad's false start (his 2nd of the game, IIRC). That's what killed us on this drive, otherwise Rudi's 5 yard gain is a TD and this discussion never happens.

[HoosierCat]

Let's agree here. Carson is doing as well as any of us could hope for in essentially a rookie QB. Give or take some mental mistakes

You make an interesting point that I must make mention of. If this is true, then what exactly was the point in having Carson sit the first year?

You haven't watched much of Eli Manning, have you?