Rudi Johnson's Future

[Kirkendall]

Chamberlin didn't play, so I'm not sure about him.

Agreed.

I just don't see the Bengals looking at Rudi if he asks for a lot of money. It's not that I don't think he deserves it, but for some reason, this team doesn't use him well with our offensive strategy and a lot of money may be over-kill. Perry the solution? Maybe, but he's still yet to be seen.

We're going to have a lot of questions going into the off-season it seems.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Chamberlin didn't play, so I'm not sure about him.

Agreed.

I just don't see the Bengals looking at Rudi if he asks for a lot of money. It's not that I don't think he deserves it, but for some reason, this team doesn't use him well with our offensive strategy and a lot of money may be over-kill. Perry the solution? Maybe, but he's still yet to be seen.

We're going to have a lot of questions going into the off-season it seems.

Don't we always?

[HoosierCat]

I totally agree on Rudi, but he does lead the league in broken tackles, so he's going to get a big payday. Without another back who can carry the load we pretty much HAVE to keep him even if it's a $4 million franchise tag.

Franchise tag for an RB is going to be a lot more than $4 million. I'd bet $6 million at least, possibly pushing $8 million.

I don't see Rudi in stripes next year.

Re the defense: I agree with the mega-props needed. These guys have given up a combined 23 points the last three games. I never thought this crew could do so well.

[Kirkendall]

Franchise tag for an RB is going to be a lot more than $4 million. I'd bet $6 million at least, possibly pushing $8 million.

Yeap, the rule is the average of the top five money makers at his position.

[Kirkendall]

Franchise tag for an RB is going to be a lot more than $4 million. I'd bet $6 million at least, possibly pushing $8 million.

Yeap, the rule is the average of the top five money makers at his position.

Just to add, the 2003 franchise number for RBs was $5.64 million..

It may be better if we throw the transition tag on him if the Bengals are dead-set in keeping Rudi... that way it's the average of the top 10 and not top 5 as is the franchise tag...

[HoosierCat]

It may be better if we throw the transition tag on him if the Bengals are dead-set in keeping Rudi... that way it's the average of the top 10 and not top 5 as is the franchise tag...

I think the transition tag is pretty likely (on the order of 90-95% chance of happening). That will probably be more in the $4 million range and will at least prevent some team from getting him cheap. But I think someone will overpay for him. And having spent a first-round pick on Perry the Bengals aren't going to lavish big bucks on Rudi.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

So, lets say we franchise him rather than spend $6 million on him. What's that get us when the dolphins want to sign him?

[Kirkendall]

So, lets say we franchise him rather than spend $6 million on him.  What's that get us when the dolphins want to sign him?

If we franchise him, we will pay him well-over $6 million not rather or either. Let's face facts, this team isn't good on managing their coin. If we pay him the market value, already with Perry on staff, then we go back to the original money point; dead cash and I highly doubt Mike Brown is going to pay Perry his money being a third down/backup running back.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

As I understand it there's a big difference between the average salary of the top 10 backs and the average of the top 5 backs (which was under 6 million last year).

I guess I mistyped. I meant to ask if we transition him instead of franchise him.... What do we get when someone is willing to pay him the transition money?

[Kirkendall]

If we transition him, then we (Bengals and Rudi) have to come to some agreement on $. If the agreement isn't established by a certain date, then Rudi can either hold out, or the team can remove the tag essentially making him an unrestricted free agent. I'm not sure of the dates yet though...

The only true difference between Transition and Franchise, and exclusive franchise is minimum $$$ offered.

JC, correct me anyone if I'm incorrect.

[Kirkendall]

But it's never a good idea, both financially or strategically, if you tag a player with no intention of signing them to a long term deal. It's a waste of money and a chance at trying on your future RB, i.e. Perry possibily.

[HoosierCat]

The only true difference between Transition and Franchise, and exclusive franchise is minimum $$$ offered.

That and draft pick compensation. If someone signs your franchise guy and you elect not to match you get two first round picks, IIRC. The transition tag only gives the team the right to match, If they don't, there's no compensation.

Here's a quick rundown on sportsline. To answer Next Big's question, if we transition him and don't match, we get zip.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/7120991

They might try the "non-exclusive" franchise tag, but that would still cost the $5.64 million of the current tag...pricey but with ??? around Perry mite be the best option...?

[jditty47]

if we are gonna pay a rb big money it should be alexander, not rudi. if we cant get alexander, let rudi go. i dont see a way we resign him. he does nothing for this offense that another back couldnt do. he makes me sick with all his runs for losses - 80% of them are his fault.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

if we are gonna pay a rb big money it should be alexander, not rudi. if we cant get alexander, let rudi go. i dont see a way we resign him. he does nothing for this offense that another back couldnt do. he makes me sick with all his runs for losses - 80% of them are his fault.

Are they his fault or the design of the play? Lets remember that Corey Dillon also had serious problems with going backwards on runs. Last year, because we only ran like 3 different running plays and 90% of the runs were the "power" run, Rudi looked good. This year, he's losing some yards because there's problem in the plays or the Oline's performance.

However, if he's going to cost 2/3rds of what Alexander would, I say...

Na Na Na Na, Na Na Na Na

Hey Hey Hey, Goodbye!

[bengalboomer7]

I hate to say it but I disagree with you, the only way we DON"T sign Rudi is if we have a chance to get Alexander via free agency. True, Rudi's numbers are somewhat mediocre so far, but I personally blame that on the play calling most of the time. The only time Brat halfway got it right is when Rudi had 50-60 against the skins (I think, correct me if I'm wrong). I really do think he's the real deal. In our conference you need a strong inside runner to pound between the tackles. And in two years so far Rudi hasn't even been knicked (crossing my fingers and knocking on wood right now, Damn shouldn't have even said it) He, just reminds me of Curtis Martin for some reason and even though you don't hear a lot about him he just had his tenth straight season with 1000+ yards. I say transition tag him to give a least a little wiggle room negotiating. If Alexander becomes a free agent and shows interest, well sorry Rudi

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

I hate to say it but I disagree with you, the only way we DON"T sign Rudi is if we have a chance to get Alexander via free agency. True, Rudi's numbers are somewhat mediocre so far, but I personally blame that on the play calling most of the time. The only time Brat halfway got it right is when Rudi had 50-60 against the skins (I think, correct me if I'm wrong). I really do think he's the real deal. In our conference you need a strong inside runner to pound between the tackles. And in two years so far Rudi hasn't even been knicked (crossing my fingers and knocking on wood right now, Damn shouldn't have even said it) He, just reminds me of Curtis Martin for some reason and even though you don't hear a lot about him he just had his tenth straight season with 1000+ yards. I say transition tag him to give a least a little wiggle room negotiating. If Alexander becomes a free agent and shows interest, well sorry Rudi

Somewhat Mediocre? He is ranked #1 in breaking tackles and #11 in total yardage.

[Kirkendall]

Dillon was victim of never having a quality QB to play with. How many times did we see 9-everyone in the box on obvious running downs? Rudi is a combination of poor o-line play, injuries on that o-line, and poor QB play too.

I like Alexander, he's one of best players and human beings I've noticed in the NFL. However, if Carson doesn't start showing positive play relieving pressure from the running game, or o-line improves; then we'll be paying for a RB with a lot of cash and limited results -- like Dillon.

[bengalboomer7]

OK above average but I think most people thought his stats would be better, but like I said I kina blame Brat for that

[bengalboomer7]

Except for this year, I could see some kind of Stepen Davis/Deshaun Foster thing going on next year if Rudi stays

[WhoDey93285]

If we can't get a good look at Perry this year, and it doesn't look like we are going to, there is no way we can let Rudi go. Personally, I think Perry is going to be a bust ala other big ten running back. Kijana Carter, Larry Johnson, ect. ect. Rudi is exactly what we need to compete in this divison. A power runner who has the capability to break some runs. Rudi can do that. He has proved it. Last time I checked he was 6th in the AFC in rushing yards and led the NFL in broken tackles. Pretty good if you asked me. Some of his mediocre game is when Brat gets away from the run.

[Kirkendall]

Personally, I think Perry is going to be a bust ala other big ten running back.

Same could be said about Pac-10 QB's.

[WhoDey93285]

Ah, now you scared me.

Honestly though, Palmer has already done more in his career then Akili.

[schweinhart]

It may be better if we throw the transition tag on him if the Bengals are dead-set in keeping Rudi... that way it's the average of the top 10 and not top 5 as is the franchise tag...

I think the transition tag is pretty likely (on the order of 90-95% chance of happening). That will probably be more in the $4 million range and will at least prevent some team from getting him cheap. But I think someone will overpay for him. And having spent a first-round pick on Perry the Bengals aren't going to lavish big bucks on Rudi.

Hobson had the transition at $4 mill yesterday. Let Rudi fetch his fair market. He's earned it. His hard running and tight grip on the ball will be greatly appreciated whether he winds up in stripes again or not.

[Scottishbengal]

In the ten games so far this season, Rudi has carried 222 times for 847 yards.

On average that's 22 times and 84 yards per game.

To extend that through the remainder of the season, he would finish with a total of 1351 yards, which is just 84 yards (or 1 game) shy of Corey Dillons all time season record. I don't think that can be classed as "mediocre" especially with the O-Line woes we've had this year.

Yep, I'd sure like to see Shaun Alexander in stripes next season, along with Rudi, but I just can't see that happening.

Perry needs to get himself fit enough to be on the pitch to show what he can do, otherwise he's just excess baggage with a first round paycheck.

[HoosierCat]

I don't think that can be classed as "mediocre" especially with the O-Line woes we've had this year.

I wouldn't class Rudi as "mediocre" either, but his lack of receiving skills keep him out of the elite category. Dillon was generally good for a couple catches a game and 200-300 yards a year through the air, as well as what he gained on the ground. If you look at other top backs like Faulk or Martin, they're also threats through the air as well as on the ground.

Personally, I think that a transition-level deal, around $4 million, is a pretty fair deal for Rudi. However, as I said before, someone will almost certainly overpay; it happens every year. And if all you need is a ground-pounder who can hold onto the ball, Rudi would be perfect.