Bengals-Steelers Game Thread

[WhoDey42]

I'm not blaming Carson for losing games for us.

I'm just tired of Bengals fans being content with "giving them a run for their money" and not winning.

Maybe thats just me though

I am anything BUT Content with a Loss...

And I do Not buy into any "moral victory" crap.

A win is a Win and a loss is a Loss...

But let's face it, we are just not all that good this year.

Even if we had Won it would have still been very unlikely that we would see the Play-Offs this year.

However I do Like a Lot, of what I am seeing from our Young Players (Including Palmer), and I think that The Bengals have a Bright Future to look forward to.

I agree that with these young players we can have a bright future. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't get pissed off over losing games this year (I'm not saying that you are ok with it, but it seems as if some are).

[WhoDey42]

Marvin is pissed...as he should be

Angry Lewis won't accept mediocrity

11/21/2004 - 4 p.m.

BY GEOFF HOBSON

Justin Smith celebrates after recording one of Cincinnati's six sacks. (Bengals photo)

11-21-04, 4 p.m.

Updated: 11-21-04, 5:30 p.m.

BY GEOFF HOBSON

After loudly telling his team he wouldn't accpept the particulars of the Bengals' 19-14 loss Sunday here at sold-out Paul Brown Stadium, Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis went public in the angriest display of his 26-game tenure and at least one Bengal said they let their coach down.

"We can not accept mediocrity," said Lewis after the Bengals’ second biggest crowd ever at PBS of 65,780 watched them commit seven second-half penalties.

"We are never going to go where we need to go if we accept this. If we accept playing close; accept being in the lead in the first half and not finishing the football game."

As superb as the Bengals defense played Sunday with seven sacks of unbeaten rookie quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, the No. 1 Steelers’ unit played even better in blanking the Bengals in a second half they gave Cincinnati just minus-3 yards of net offense.

Riding their 9-1 brew of defense, special teams, and a punishing running game, the Steelers mixed an 18-minute pad in time of possession and 129 yards from running back Jerome Bettis to toast a victory fittingly sealed when Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer was called for a safety with 2:38 left in trying avoid a sack in his own end zone.

In a much more emotional display, right tackle Willie Anderson blamed the Bengals' sixth straight AFC North loss (0-4 in this 4-6 season) on a lack of focus on the offense.

"It's on us. We lost this game. Jerome Bettis got over 100 yards because we couldn't convert on third down," said Anderson of a unit that converted just two of 10 all day. "I'm (ticked) off, too. To win games like this and to beat times like this, football has to be your life. And offensively, it's really not our life. We're putting the work in, but it's the extra stuff you have to do. . .We let Lewis down.”

Palmer, 13-of-25 passing for 165 yards, had just 45 yards passing in the second half. Bengals running back Rudi Johnson could find just 15 yards in the half in finishing with 62.

Roethlisberger followed his 8-0 formula to the letter in completing just 15 of just 21 passes for 138 yards. In his NFL-record start, Roethlisberger has averaged 21.5 passes per game and Pittsburgh has won the time of possession in each game.

[HoosierCat]

Well how about THIS...

We had all of EIGHT yards Rushing in the ENTIRE 2nd haft...

We had a 7 yard run called back which gave us a 1 and 18.

We had a 4 yard run called back giving us a 1st and 20.

We had a 8 yard run called back giving us 2 and 27.

You Can't keep putting yourself in the hole like that against the Steelers.

They play a Ball-Control game and you only get so many chances to have the ball.

And let's not forget the really dumb stuff like taunting and late hits. I'm not at all surprised at how mad Marvin is. I'm not sure I've ever seen an offense and special teams unit self-destruct as badly as the Bengals did in the second half, even in this team's 80's "Bungles" heyday.

On the flip side, the defense was awesome. Cheeselisburger may have gotten the W but he didn't get away with any sesame seeds on his bun. He'll be fighting Bettis for whirlpool time. How good was the D? If we hadn't let the O on the field at all in the second half, it would have been a 3 point game, not a 5 point one.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Palmer sure looked like total sh*t in the 2nd half.

Well he certainly didn't look nearly as good as he did in the 1st half, where he looked as the better of the two young QB's. I think you have to credit at least some of this to the Steeler defense, and the adjustments they made at halftime.

The safety late in the game...well that was undeniably a "brain fart" on Palmers part, but nothing outside of what you would normally call a young QB mistake. If he makes that same mistake again this season, or worse in next season, then I'd worry.

In real world football terms, as well as IMHO, there is just no reason to bench him. Unlike what happened in New York with the Giants benching Warner to try Manning, and by the way, Eli has only 1 Td and 2 INTs so far in his game, Cincinnati already is in the process of breaking in their young inexperienced QB.

Odds are Jon Kitna may have made these mistakes and he may have been able to win this game because of the very experience he posesses, and Palmer is in the process of accumulating! But the fact remains Kitna is not the Bengals future, if simply because of his age alone. The Cincinnati ownership and coaching staff have obviously fully committed to the much younger Carson Palmer, and losing games like this at this particular stage in his development isn't likely to result in his butt finding any pine to sit on. Again...all this is just my opinion.

[schweinhart]

Dunno know about the whole halftime adjustment by the other team routine. Heard that last week too.

Point is Palmer didn't get the job done. Sure, more help at TE and WR would help more, but this is his team. I don't dispute that he's the QB of future and a great passer.

But after watching that total 2nd half garbage, all I can say is maybe wait until 7th loss then bench Palmer. If he can't engineer win vs. Steelers at home, then screw his escalators.

Besides that, Palmer should run a 1,000 suicides next week for practice. He looked like a beer-bellied dipsh*t the one time he ran the ball. Somebody make him more mobile and explain to him that he can run ball for 1st downs when available.

[WhoDey93285]

I'm sorry, but you have no knowledge of football what-so-ever if you think we should bench Palmer at ANY point this season.

[STRAYCAT]

Bengals look flat, crowd is not in it, not feeling good about this game at all.

Awfully quick to say this, don't you think?

Man you were right. The crowd was not in this game for some reason. Squeeler

fans were smack talking more than us in our house. We got to stop letting them come in here and do that s**t. They (mgt) need to do something to make sure our fans get the tickets first and keep it that way. I was going crazy seing all the yellow and black down there.

[STRAYCAT]

Time to start dropping the hammer Marvin! play calling..special teams..mental thinking

[BengalBax]

It's clear to me that these two young Qb's are gifted and the rivalry between the two in years to come will be exciting. they may have the strongest arms of any young QB's in the league.

the difference as I see it is how they react under intense pressure.. Ben finds a way to keep his offense moving..He eludes tacklers and finds a way to move the chains. His agility and mobility gets them extra first downs. He doesn't seem to panic.

Carson, on the other hand, isn't as mobile. He's not as agile. He kind of stumbles along when pressured and has to take off. His mental mistakes continue. It seems that when the game is winding down and we need that big play he panics and folds under pressure mentally. He's got alot of talent and he'll improve I'm sure but right now Ben is way ahead of him when it comes to closing a game and that's what separates good from great....

[Bobcat Bengal]

It's clear to me that these two young Qb's are gifted and the rivalry between the two in years to come will be exciting. they may have the strongest arms of any young QB's in the league.

the difference as I see it is how they react under intense pressure.. Ben finds a way to keep his offense moving..He eludes tacklers and finds a way to move the chains. His agility and mobility gets them extra first downs. He doesn't seem to panic.

Carson, on the other hand, isn't as mobile. He's not as agile. He kind of stumbles along when pressured and has to take off. His mental mistakes continue. It seems that when the game is winding down and we need that big play he panics and folds under pressure mentally. He's got alot of talent and he'll improve I'm sure but right now Ben is way ahead of him when it comes to closing a game and that's what separates good from great....

I whole-heartedly agree, and Very correct assesment Bax, I'm suprised you didn't resort to blindly chastising him.

[BengalszoneBilly]

That was a good consise post of your point of view Bax. Well put, valid points!

[HoosierCat]

The difference between Palmer and Cheeslisburger is that Burger Boy has a running game. Do you think it's a coincidence that Palmer looked much better in the first half -- when Rudi was plowing toward another 100 yard game -- than in the second when Rudi couldn't gain squat (in part due to stupid penalties) and Carson was put in the position (again!) of having to win it all on his own?

[skyline]

The difference between Palmer and Cheeslisburger is that Burger Boy has a running game. Do you think it's a coincidence that Palmer looked much better in the first half -- when Rudi was plowing toward another 100 yard game -- than in the second when Rudi couldn't gain squat (in part due to stupid penalties) and Carson was put in the position (again!) of having to win it all on his own?

Yep. Big Ben didn't do anything spectacular. Fact is, though, that he didn't have to. He's able to have a very blah game, and get away with it. Palmer isn't.

[Kirkendall]

The difference between Palmer and Cheeslisburger is that Burger Boy has a running game.

So did Carson. 3.9 yards per carry isn't glamorous, but it still sets up for 2nd and 7 or 2nd and 6; then 3rd and 2. Of course, we have to actually run the ball to use that argument in the first place -- think Josh THINK!.

I'm sorry, but if you're stuck with 1st and 20 or 2nd-18, you still keep the rushing game incorporated. If you don't, you become one-dimension and cause Palmer to shoulder the load, which he hasn't done yet and perhaps won't do until he has a better cast of characters around him -- which concerns me a little if that's the case.

[HoosierCat]

I'm sorry, but if you're stuck with 1st and 20 or 2nd-18, you still keep the rushing game incorporated. If you don't, you become one-dimension and cause Palmer to shoulder the load,

Great. So at 4 yards a carry you're now at 2nd and 16 or 3rd and 14. You're still asking Carson to carry the game. All the run does is give you more room to punt. If they would have actually had some 3rd and 7s you might stick with the run, but those downs were few and far between in the second half. And that's what I'm talking about here. First half was fine as far as the playcalling.

[Kirkendall]

I'm sorry, but if you're stuck with 1st and 20 or 2nd-18, you still keep the rushing game incorporated.  If you don't, you become one-dimension and cause Palmer to shoulder the load,

Great. So at 4 yards a carry you're now at 2nd and 16 or 3rd and 14. You're still asking Carson to carry the game. All the run does is give you more room to punt. If they would have actually had some 3rd and 7s you might stick with the run, but those downs were few and far between in the second half. And that's what I'm talking about here. First half was fine as far as the playcalling.

With 2nd and 20 doesn't mean the Steelers will go to their 3-4 rush defense. They'll go into the pass defense and blitz meaning the secondary is playing off, the LBs either blitz or are blocked (wishful, but it could happen) and the running lanes open up a ton. Sometimes you catch opposing teams sleeping. But we'll never know because we never even try and shout to the other team, "hey, Chad is going deep, Washington is doing a post, TE (if any) will be doing a five-yard out, and Rudi will come up the middle to about 10 yards downfield and sit."

[HoosierCat]

I dunno, Kirk. When you're down to arguing that they ought to run the ball on 2nd and 20 because they might get lucky...well, heck, they might get lucky on a pass, too. Even Champ Bailey falls down sometimes .

[Kirkendall]

I dunno, Kirk. When you're down to arguing that they ought to run the ball on 2nd and 20 because they might get lucky...well, heck, they might get lucky on a pass, too. Even Champ Bailey falls down sometimes .

True that. We were just pathetic, as a team, all around in the second half.

[JPW]

It's clear to me that these two young Qb's are gifted and the rivalry between the two in years to come will be exciting. they may have the strongest arms of any young QB's in the league.

the difference as I see it is how they react under intense pressure.. Ben finds a way to keep his offense moving..He eludes tacklers and finds a way to move the chains. His agility and mobility gets them extra first downs. He doesn't seem to panic.

Carson, on the other hand, isn't as mobile. He's not as agile. He kind of stumbles along when pressured and has to take off. His mental mistakes continue. It seems that when the game is winding down and we need that big play he panics and folds under pressure mentally. He's got alot of talent and he'll improve I'm sure but right now Ben is way ahead of him when it comes to closing a game and that's what separates good from great....

Excuse me but WTF is going on here ?

Do you post over on the Bengal Insider as Claptonrocks or did you cut and paste someone else's post ?

Carson vs Big Ben...(Comparisons and Contrasts)..

If you do post as Claptonrocks then who the hell is BengalBAX over there ?

Palmer is a BITCH.......

Just what is the deal here BAX ?