walzav29 Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 He just doesn't have it. 3 times he could have tied or won it in the last 2 minutes. 2 int's, and 1 fumble. Farve, Brady, McNabb, hell even Rothlesburger would lead at least 1 drive into the end zone. He is at least a Dilfer. If we build a super defense then we have a chance, but overall he is not a special quarterback. He has no emotion whatsoever. How long will it take to have a good defense? Who the hell knows, but it won't be this year. You can't tell me that it's just his first year. I think 3 chances to show some grit is enough. He just isn't a pimp qb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBobNC Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 ::sigh:: Believe what you want, but you are dead wrong on Palmer, and it is getting very old repeating the obvious about him. You guys would've canned Elway, Manning, and others during their first year too.You need to face one very real fact in the NFL: QBs starting in their first year struggle. Especially when the running game is not clicking and the o-line is not protecting you very well.Comparing Palmer to Farve, Brady, or McNabb is ridiculous. Palmer is a rookie QB, those guys are not.Big Ben is a rare, very very very rare exception. He also enjoys far better protection and a seriously consistent running game out of Duce and the Bus. Not to mention an opportunistic defense. Big difference for him. If we switched QBs with the Steelers, Big Ben would be struggling and Palmer would be doing very well.I could go on, but like I said, this is getting old. By far, the screw up that speaks larger about this team currently is not Palmer's fumble, but their lack of composure on that 4th and 1 fake punt where no less than 12 people didn't think to call a timeout and regroup. (11 guys on special teams and Marvin Lewis, any of which could've/SHOULD HAVE called a timeout.) That directly led to a TD. Take that away and who knows how the game would've ended up. Perhaps it would've been 20-20 and Palmer was leading a FG drive late in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walzav29 Posted November 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 I was talking about when they were rookies. Let's look at our beloved Boomer Esiason. Back in 84' he was trailing the Browns 17 to 7, and he led them back and threw a touchdown to Munoz to tie it. Eventually they won it in overtime. He was young and had no experience, but he pulled it out. That is the ingredient that is missing. That ability to improvise and make those around him better. That 84 Bengal team sucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Well, let's not forget driving down the field for the winning FG against Miami. Yes, he obviously should have thrown it away yesterday. On the other hand, the offense wouldn't have even been at first & goal if it weren't for him.The problem isn't Palmer. The problem is that we have no running game, and Palmer has no one to throw to underneath. We haven't had a complete TE in ages, Warrick is a wreck, and Rudi, unlike Corey, isn't a receiving threat. Our whole offense is little more than one sandlot play: go long. 'Taint gonna cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBobNC Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 You are forgetting one little fact: The front five Anderson, Schonert, AND Esiason enjoyed in '84.Left to right:Munoz-Blados-Rimington-Montoya-WilsonPretty big difference. Another difference:4 RBs combined combined for over 1800 yards on the ground.Pretty big difference.The defense registered 38 sacksPretty big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vettespd20 Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Ok last week after Monday Night Football, a post like this was not started. The reason is because Palmer got protection and had the chance to throw the ball. When he has time and is not forced out of the pocket he can make it happen. He proved that on Monday, and did a good job. He got sacked 4 times and had 5 tipped passes, what does that tell ya. I think in this game he showed a lot more leadership, I seen him changing the plays A LOT MORE than he has, seeing things before the play. I also seen him being more patient, and letting plays form and not rushing the pass. He is getting better and better it is just hard to see sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walzav29 Posted November 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 I guess the problem could be the expectations are higher because of last years moderate success. I think in hindsight it would have been better to start Palmer, so these young mistakes could have been taken out during a year where we had no expecations anyway. Our record would have been crappy enough that we could have landed an impact DT or a Taylor or type in the draft. That 8-8 did us no favors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 The last people I'm worried about on this team are Palmer and Rudi and Chad Johnson.To be honest, the rest of the roster can be cut (unless Warrick ever gets healthy) entirely. They're all mediocre or bad players. Same with the coaching staff, including Marvin.Give me a break with the "moxie" garbage, Palmer just has to do his job and learn from his mistakes. People who don't know much about football are the first ones to blame a QB for everything that's wrong. Hell we listened to that for two years with Kitna - not that Qb's aren't always deserving of criticism and blame.That said, the next time Palmer is put into that situation he needs to come through, for once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBobNC Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 That 8-8 did us no favors.Now that I can agree with. But definately not starting Palmer last year. I would've loved it if we could have blown someone out, so Palmer could have come in and got some game time. Didn't work out. He is getting it now and he'll be that much better next year.Right now the two biggest things we need are: a consistent running game and lots and lots of help on the defense. The draft will have to take care of the defense, because we are not going to attract quality FAs until we hit the post season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 OK, we know Palmer is a first-year starter and all that. My question is when is he going to show improvement? I mean it's not going to be after game 16, then whamo, he's improved. I'd like to see the improvement during the season such as STOP backpedaling automatically when he's getting blitzed; that's the majority of his interceptions and three and outs. He's been doing this for about 4 weeks now; either the coaches or Carson needs to step up and make plays, not excuse him for being young.I'm not anti-Palmer, but I would like to actually be a little encouraged during a game seeing some sort of improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBobNC Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 I'm not anti-Palmer, but I would like to actually be a little encouraged during a game seeing some sort of improvement.Did you not see the Denver game? When the o-line did a far better job look what we got. He looked very poised and made great reads.If you get a rookie QB wondering where he is going to be hit from because the o-line is not playing like they did only one game before, crap is going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 I'm not anti-Palmer, but I would like to actually be a little encouraged during a game seeing some sort of improvement.Did you not see the Denver game? When the o-line did a far better job look what we got. He looked very poised and made great reads. He also had a running game.Listen guys, one of the problems in this forum right now is you can't criticize Palmer or people get defensive and name-calling, insults, and downright nasty comments come out. Some of you need to relax and actually discuss this things we see, not go into defensive warfare. Something we lost in the forum from last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBobNC Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Listen guys, one of the problems in this forum right now is you can't criticize Palmer or people get defensive and name-calling, insults, and downright nasty comments come out.One of the other problems is you cannot defend Palmer without name-calling, insults, and downright nasty comments come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walzav29 Posted November 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Then what is the problem with the O-Line? 2 1st rounders and a 2ND RNDER who supposed to be a hot shot. They shouldn't get manhandled like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Listen guys, one of the problems in this forum right now is you can't criticize Palmer or people get defensive and name-calling, insults, and downright nasty comments come out.One of the other problems is you cannot defend Palmer without name-calling, insults, and downright nasty comments come out. Either way, the reactions on this board right now have totally lost the luster it had from last year when we all could talk with civility; hence why I've been less active lately (I suspect Joisey likes that.. )BTW - I'm not talking about you Bob, there's just all this crap from the weekend. I would actually like to have ONE THREAD that analyzes the game. Not just the mean spirited hate comments about the team, and other members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 When it comes to Palmer, I think Daugherty hit the nail on the head in this morning's column:http://bengals.enquirer.com/2004/11/01/ben1adoc.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBobNC Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 BTW - I'm not talking about you Bob, there's just all this crap from the weekend. I would actually like to have ONE THREAD that analyzes the game. Not just the mean spirited hate comments about the team, and other members.I wasn't talking about you either. I feel like I do analyze a game, and take pride in seeing things differently than some people who just bash. I did completely freak out over the fake punt play, but let's be honest about that play...it was the biggest joke I have ever seen on a PROFESSIONAL football field.When people are attacking people personally, why are the moderators not locking them out for a while like B24 threatened last night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 When people are attacking people personally, why are the moderators not locking them out for a while like B24 threatened last night? We try to BOB, but as you saw yesterday, it all happened at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBobNC Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 It happens all the time Josh, not just yesterday. Yesterday was bad, no doubt. But this kind of nonsense goes on all the time.One example of many: How many people has bengalbax called a f@cking idiot or f@cking loser and how many have fired it right back since September alone? How about barbarian (his actually sound funny) but he fires 'em off with the best.I do not expect moderators with full time day jobs to be on top of every post, but it has been going on for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Then use the report button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Palmer played very well yesterday except for one play where he should've thrown it away at the end of the game. That SUCKED.But do NOT overlook the fact that he was very effficient, accurate, made the throws he had to, etc.., Everyone wants to focus on the QB, understandably, but when you get only THREE offensive possession in the first half, then TIE up the game, only to find yourself down 27-13 shortly afterwards, you're putting way too much pressure on the offense to win games for you every week. It gets old.Criticizing Palmer is fine but people should at least know what they're talking about to some extent, or expect to get lambasted by people I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoDey42 Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 How many threads are we going to have saying the same exact thing about Palmer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walzav29 Posted November 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Probably 900 million, or after every game that he blows it in the last 2 minutes. I would love to sit here and kiss his ass with our 6-1 record and his 14 td to 2 int. ratio, but that hasn't happend yet. I will praise him if he does good and I will dog him until he proves to be worth something. If he shows to be consistently good I will forgive games that he fumbles at the 9. Until then I will question his ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBobNC Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 How many threads are we going to have saying the same exact thing about Palmer?Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!It is getting very, very, old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBobNC Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Probably 900 million, or after every game that he blows it in the last 2 minutes. I would love to sit here and kiss his ass with our 6-1 record and his 14 td to 2 int. ratio, but that hasn't happend yet. I will praise him if he does good and I will dog him until he proves to be worth something. If he shows to be consistently good I will forgive games that he fumbles at the 9. Until then I will question his ability.Oh dear God.repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeatThat is all we do on this board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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