2025 Draft Talking Points

[ArmyBengal]

I had an interesting (see good) problem come up in a recent mock.

The Bengals went on the clock at #17 and faced a top three rated players consisting of:

Malaki Starks, S, Georgia
Tyler Booker, LG, Alabama
Jalon Walker, LB, Georgia

In this situation, I want all three VERY MUCH and think any of them would impact the team greatly.
I don't think there's a wrong answer among this bunch and could make a strong argument for either.

[HoosierCat]

Yah I had Booker and Walker available today at pff. Went with Mykal Williams though. Got the LB in the second, Campbell, and Emmanwori in the third. I'd take that all day in real life but it will never happen!

[ArmyBengal]

I'd take that as well.

[HoosierCat]

Kiper gives us Williams in his latest mock.

https://www.on3.com/pro/news/2025-nfl-draft-mel-kiper-releases-mock-2-updated-predictions-for-all-32-first-round-picks-before-nfl-combine/

[HoosierCat]

That reminds me, Joe did Shemar Stewart the other day. Bottom line, he wouldn’t touch him in the first or second, and based on the chart he uses toward the end of the video, I think he’s going to hate Mel’s pick too.

https://youtu.be/w_mm-rcEsYQ?si=jI6YOGcc1pTStRc7

 

[AMPHAR]

Walter Nolen at 32 in Mel's last mock?  No Pearce in first round?   I just glanced through his mock has some picks going against the norm.

[HoosierCat]

Joe a no on Williams at 17.

https://youtu.be/vd0RYKwVOhE?si=oeoPNvQWyFd1CyTD

 

[AMPHAR]

From yesterday's presser.   "Get off" is number 1 thing Tobin wants from an edge rusher.  Player has to be able to threaten the tackle or he'll just sit on you.   2nd is a pass rush plan/2nd move. 

 

[TJJackson]

I dont want Williams any sooner than r2

[HoosierCat]

Joe’s first mock.

https://youtu.be/GEPy5BMceKo?si=ZCFazfNYe_v6PAgu

Pearce, Starks, Ratledge 1-2-3. I’ll take that.

[zbeaster]

On 3/4/2025 at 8:56 PM, HoosierCat said:

Joe’s first mock.

https://youtu.be/GEPy5BMceKo?si=ZCFazfNYe_v6PAgu

Pearce, Starks, Ratledge 1-2-3. I’ll take that.

It's hard to see Starks falling to 49 but this would be an awesome first three picks.

[TJJackson]

while I am by no means in love with our DT situation, I think it has improved sufficiently to warrant holding off on DT til day 3, or even just skipping it altogether

if an absolute blue chipper happens to fall, go for it....but otherwise, nah.  Get some camp bodies from UDCFA.

[ArmyBengal]

I have liked the thought of Pearce dropping to us, but I've cooled somewhat on him.
He eerily reminds me of what we currently have in Myles Murphy when taking a closer look.

Like Murphy, Pearce was thought to be a lock for the top 10. 
Murphy fell and now Pearce projections have him doing the same.

It made me curious, so I went to take a look at the two of them from a stat perspective.
Both of them played 3 college seasons with Murphy playing in 38 games and Pearce playing in 39.

In 3 seasons, Murphy had 119 combined tackles, 37 tackles for loss, 17.5 sacks and 6 forced fumbles.
In 3 seasons, Pearce had 71 combined tackles, 30 tackles for loss, 19.5 sacks and 3 forced fumbles.

From a college production standpoint, Pearce was worse than Murphy.
Again similar, they had almost identical prospect grades for the draft (Murphy 6.42 and Pearce 6.40).
That grades equates to them being a good starter within two years.

While understanding this isn't a "Definitive" by any stretch, it's the only comparison we have.
We need Murphy to finally realize his potential and not have to wait that much time for another 1st round pick.
An impact player on the defensive side of the ball on day one is sorely needed.

However, if that would be at the DE spot, I'm not sold the guys outside of Abdul Carter are much better.
Just get Trey extended already.

[ArmyBengal]

The point I was trying to make was, I'm not sure the DE we can hope to get in the 1st is going to be significantly better than the DE we can get in the 2nd round.  If that's the case, #17 can really be an open book for BPA within reason.

[HoosierCat]

Oh I understood you perfectly, Army. It’s why I was squawking so much about draft position during the late-season win streak. And it’s why I find my attention now drawn to IOL at 17. If they can get a guy with experience at tackle too, that’s a plus. 

[ArmyBengal]

Yeah, that was more me not finishing my thought process (Stupid A-G-E) than thinking you didn't understand.

I'm 100% good with the interior of the o-line at #17, despite the fact the Bengals don't like to pay those guys if they deserve their 2nd contract.  If anything THAT is the reason you do take them in the first round.  They could get the 5th year on the club option out of them instead of only 4 years in the other rounds.

There are OG's through the first 3-4 rounds that I think would be an improvement over what we got from Cappa.
That's such a low threshold to cross that they should be good.  Go ahead and pencil in Tyler Booker and I'm good.

A late round guy I like is Clay Webb.  Thought to be a little undersized at 6'3 and 315lbs. 
However, he placed as the 2nd most athletic center in the draft and a RAS of 9.17.
He was a top rated center and went to Georgia, but simply couldn't crack the lineup and left after 3 seasons.
He played OG after he transferred to Jacksonville State.  If we were to take two OG's, I like him.

[TJJackson]

gotta be a OG at this point

[ArmyBengal]

Here's what I am convinced of.  
At least 4 of the 6 players drafted (if there are no additional picks added) should be defenders.
I don't care where they get drafted either, but do have some thoughts.

The first rounder comes with the 5th year option.  I want this pick to either be an OG or a safety at this point.
Those are positions the front office hasn't historically wanted to pay a second contract to, so keep them for 5.
With all the money being handed out on the offensive side of things, my preference there is safety.
I've said before that I don't think the DE we can get at #17 is substantially better than what they get in the 2nd.

That being said, this is what shook out today and must say that I would be overjoyed with this result:

#17- Nick Emmanwori, S, South Carolina - He has been and remains one of my favorite players for us to target.
The other option here would be OG Tyler Booker, but he was gone by #17.  No need to reach for another.

#49- Mike Green, DE, Marshall - I would love this pick and think he may fall for the same reason I don't think there is much separating the mid to late first round guys from the mid second round guys.  GREAT pick.

#81- Marcus Mbow, OT, Purdue - He falls a little and is definitely a guy that would benefit moving to the inside at OG.  The Bengals get great value at a position of need.  I would be thrilled with this one as well.

#119- Danny Stutsman, LB, Oklahoma - Yes, a linebacker and an athletic one at that.  I would love one earlier for all my rantings about linebackers, but I think this is about right all things considered.

#153- Rylie Mills, DT, Notre Dame - Yes, Al Golden and blah blah blah, but Mills is an above average pass rushing DT.  We have run stuffers and some pass rush skills would be welcomed.  I think Mills is an underrated prospect in the late rounds.

#193- Dont'e Thornton, WR, Notre Dame - I know we just signed Ja'Marr and Tee. Iosivas is a solid backup to them, but Burton is a complete dumbass and Charlie Jones has had less impact than expected and been injured.  Thornton is a deep threat speed guy that would add another wrinkle to an explosive offense.

[HoosierCat]

Looks like a solid draft to me. I don't think Green will be there at 49 but there will be other good edge prospects I'd also be fine with.

[ArmyBengal]

1 hour ago, HoosierCat said:

Looks like a solid draft to me. I don't think Green will be there at 49 but there will be other good edge prospects I'd also be fine with.

I don't think Green will be there either, but that's only based upon the hype machine and projections at this point.
Projections, as we have seen, can sometimes be fairly far off.  I don't think it's unreasonable to think teams look at how players are graded and decide to take a player that is rated higher at a different position than taking a player of need who may not be rated as high.  Doing that is what can get coaches fired.

Again, if you really look at the stats and production of the edge guys in this draft, there is Abdul Carter and everyone else.  There are more than a handful that are all fairly similar to each other.  Seeing one of them drop to us in the second round will not surprise me in the least.

Then again, I've been known to be completely full of shit, so don't rule out that possibility.

[HoosierCat]

Bookface group passed along a tweet from Gridiron Grading that the Bengals are bringing Emannwori in for a pre draft visit.

[ArmyBengal]

He was actually the first player I was pimping this year and oddly enough, that really hasn't changed to a point I totally dismissed him.  I think that would be a great addition.

[HoosierCat]

Killing time on PFN's draft simulator this morning...traded 17 for 34, 65 and 105.

34. Derrick Harmon DT Oregon

49. Wyatt Milum OG West Virginia

65. Landon Jackson EDGE Arkansas

81. Chris Paul Jr. LB Ole Miss

105. Gunnar Helm TE Texas

119. Savion Williams WR TCU

153. Tyler Shough QB Louisville

193. Marcus Tate OG Clemson

 

I give me a B.

[ArmyBengal]

Hate trading out of the 1st round and giving up the 5th year option.  God know we depend on that around here.
Even more so if we are talking about an OG or Safety.

The rest looks solid to me.  Love the first two picks.

[HoosierCat]

LB pr0n for Army: Jihaad Campbell. Joe is down with him at 17 if the injury issue isn’t serious.

https://youtu.be/zizfAC-_-JQ?si=dTR6ZxnyXoCtDZ-o