Playoffs Observations: Bengals have their most Bengals playoff exit ye

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Scathing, but very accurate summary.

Playoffs Observations: Bengals have their most Bengals playoff exit yet

[cincyhokie]

Yep, that about sums it up.

Pretty damn accurate and depressing.

Hue Jackson really disappointed today. Really bad preparation.

[Passepartout]

Yeah another playoff lost for eleven to twelve years now and counting the way it is going.

[ArmyBengal]

In Lewis' six playoff losses, he has been outscored 84-13. That's amazing. That's hard to chalk up to a fluke.

Again, while I don't expect Marvin to go anywhere in 2015, I agree wholeheartedly with the above.

[walzav29]

There is no argument left to be made. It's the oddest thing I've ever seen. I guess a change in head coach is in order. I know we risk going back to the dark ages of the 90's, but the 6 playoff seasons consist of 2 entirely different teams with the same playoff results. Marv has to go.

[ArmyBengal]

I don't buy into the whole "Make Marvin the GM" speak that goes around from time to time, because I don't view that as something reasonable.

However, there is plenty of room for him in some other role within the organization.

I don't think Hue is going anywhere for 2015 either, but wouldn't mind seeing him take over when next season ends if that is the direction things go.

[HoosierCat]

In Lewis' six playoff losses, he has been outscored 84-13. That's amazing. That's hard to chalk up to a fluke.

Again, while I don't expect Marvin to go anywhere in 2015, I agree wholeheartedly with the above.

Marvin doesn't coach the offense. If you want change, start with the offensive position coaches, most if not all of whom need to go.

These are the guys who are responsible for developing players,assessing their strengths and weaknesses, and sending that information up the chain to the OC and HC to use in formulating game plans. But year after year, what do we see? Offensive players never, ever, ever develop here. At least on defense you can point to players like Atkins, Dunlap and Kirkpatrick who have clearly improved over time. Nothing like that ever happens on offense; if anything, guys seem more prone to regressing.

We also continue to see players being mis- or under-utilized. Gio is clearly a guy you want to get in space, yet they pounded him up the middle this year to the point he missed time because of injury. Meanwhile, Hill barely got any carries until those Gio injuries forced their hands -- and he immediately provides the run game we've been seeking. Sanu is a slot guy. He doesn't have the speed to play on the outside, yet they continue to roll him out there, uselessly. And of course the back end of the roster continues to be infested with coach favorites and pet projects that don't provide any real depth (how's that Tanner Hawkinson project working out, Paul? Oh right, like every other late round "find" you pick in your quest to prove you're the second coming of McNally.)

[ArmyBengal]

I agree that the position coaches need to be addressed, but if you can see that, so can Marvin.

Does Marvin not have the power to recommend what, by all appearances, should happen with those types of failures ??

Does Marvin not see the problem in the first place ??

I don't know, but I stand by my thoughts that the team needs to move on from Marvin.

I've felt that way since the loss to the Browns this season even though some have felt that way for more than a few years.

[HoosierCat]

I agree that the position coaches need to be addressed, but if you can see that, so can Marvin.

Does Marvin not have the power to recommend what, by all appearances, should happen with those types of failures ??

Does Marvin not see the problem in the first place ??

I suspect it's a combination of some guys being "Marvin guys" and others (read: Alexander) being a Friend of Mikey, resulting in the possession of an iron rice bowl. But yeah, Marvin needs to make changes and if he doesn't, then he needs to go.

[cincyhokie]

In Lewis' six playoff losses, he has been outscored 84-13. That's amazing. That's hard to chalk up to a fluke.

Again, while I don't expect Marvin to go anywhere in 2015, I agree wholeheartedly with the above.

Marvin doesn't coach the offense. If you want change, start with the offensive position coaches, most if not all of whom need to go.

These are the guys who are responsible for developing players,assessing their strengths and weaknesses, and sending that information up the chain to the OC and HC to use in formulating game plans. But year after year, what do we see? Offensive players never, ever, ever develop here. At least on defense you can point to players like Atkins, Dunlap and Kirkpatrick who have clearly improved over time. Nothing like that ever happens on offense; if anything, guys seem more prone to regressing.

We also continue to see players being mis- or under-utilized. Gio is clearly a guy you want to get in space, yet they pounded him up the middle this year to the point he missed time because of injury. Meanwhile, Hill barely got any carries until those Gio injuries forced their hands -- and he immediately provides the run game we've been seeking. Sanu is a slot guy. He doesn't have the speed to play on the outside, yet they continue to roll him out there, uselessly. And of course the back end of the roster continues to be infested with coach favorites and pet projects that don't provide any real depth (how's that Tanner Hawkinson project working out, Paul? Oh right, like every other late round "find" you pick in your quest to prove you're the second coming of McNally.)

Accountability is severely lacking. Definitely.

[cincyhokie]

The NFL has drastically gone the way of cerebral, technical, excellence. It goes for the coaching, it goes for the QBs.

Not sure if Marvin can step up any more than he has. If he stays, at least the coaching staff needs to be under CONSTANT evaluation and re-evaluation. The days of pension style coaching retention is really costing this team.

Please get with the current model. ASAP.

[HoosierCat]

There was a story a while back in some obscure stats publication about the Bengals instituting a film-based player grading system that was supposed to go live in 2015. It will be interesting to see if that drives decision-making in a different direction.

[cincyhokie]

There was a story a while back in some obscure stats publication about the Bengals instituting a film-based player grading system that was supposed to go live in 2015. It will be interesting to see if that drives decision-making in a different direction.

If "wishing and hope" were a coat rack, this right here is another hook to hang out hopes and dreams on.

"Thank you, sir! May I have another?!"

Let's get on with 2015.

[kingwilly]

To me, this is the most pertinent part of the article:

"Gio Bernard was not featured nearly enough in the screen game. I expected to see read-option looks, triple-option looks and Jackson finding ways to get Hill and Bernard in the backfield at the same time. Instead, they just kept chucking it around with a bunch of second-rate receivers who could not separate and without much willful intent. It was hard to watch. There was no creativity. No flash from Jackson. Nothing."

It's painfl to read.

They flashed with the fresh plays to Rex early on but then when they got behind, it all went into the crapper. Folded up and quit.

ugh.

[HoosierCat]

I agree Hue didn't exactly cover himself in glory Sunday, but in all fairness he was working with third- and fourth-stringers and taxi squad players who have probably spent most of their time on the scout team (in between strenuous bouts of sitting on the bench on Sundays) and he had six days to install what he could.

What bugged me more watching the game was seeing Luck toss check-down after check-down to Herron for 10 or 15 yards each. That's just a bread and butter play, and Andy ought to have had an RB (like Gio) wriggling free on every snap just the same way. Skyline was yelling about the lack of dump-off options a while back and this game was a glaring example.

[volcom69]

To me, this is the most pertinent part of the article:

"Gio Bernard was not featured nearly enough in the screen game. I expected to see read-option looks, triple-option looks and Jackson finding ways to get Hill and Bernard in the backfield at the same time. Instead, they just kept chucking it around with a bunch of second-rate receivers who could not separate and without much willful intent. It was hard to watch. There was no creativity. No flash from Jackson. Nothing."

It's painfl to read.

They flashed with the fresh plays to Rex early on but then when they got behind, it all went into the crapper. Folded up and quit.

ugh.

This always happens when they get behind, they panic and throw the game plan out the window! I hate that, they act like they were down a bunch, they needed to run the ball and keep the colts on the bench, the only way to win this game! It dosnt matter who is on the field it always comes down to this, these coaches panic, and it starts at the top!

[volcom69]

I agree Hue didn't exactly cover himself in glory Sunday, but in all fairness he was working with third- and fourth-stringers and taxi squad players who have probably spent most of their time on the scout team (in between strenuous bouts of sitting on the bench on Sundays) and he had six days to install what he could.

What bugged me more watching the game was seeing Luck toss check-down after check-down to Herron for 10 or 15 yards each. That's just a bread and butter play, and Andy ought to have had an RB (like Gio) wriggling free on every snap just the same way. Skyline was yelling about the lack of dump-off options a while back and this game was a glaring example.

I agree, but could it be because the colts just stacked the box looking for it? I think if they were worried about Dalton throwing the ball over there heads there would have been more underneath passes. This is why I think Gio has not been used right all season, I swear I don't even know if I have seen an wheel routes this year. Just crazy!

[cincyhokie]

To me, this is the most pertinent part of the article:

"Gio Bernard was not featured nearly enough in the screen game. I expected to see read-option looks, triple-option looks and Jackson finding ways to get Hill and Bernard in the backfield at the same time. Instead, they just kept chucking it around with a bunch of second-rate receivers who could not separate and without much willful intent. It was hard to watch. There was no creativity. No flash from Jackson. Nothing."

It's painfl to read.

They flashed with the fresh plays to Rex early on but then when they got behind, it all went into the crapper. Folded up and quit.

ugh.

This always happens when they get behind, they panic and throw the game plan out the window! I hate that, they act like they were down a bunch, they needed to run the ball and keep the colts on the bench, the only way to win this game! It dosnt matter who is on the field it always comes down to this, these coaches panic, and it starts at the top!

Agreed.

[ArmyBengal]

What I don't get is a game plan that consisted of throwing the ball to a practice squad RB that was just brought up more than all but one of the starting WR's. I get you are working with guys down the pecking order, but d*mn. That took on the "getting cute" aspect I spoke of. Sort of like a, "They'll never see this one coming" kind of thing.

Why they didn't focus on what they had and getting creative with THEM is beyond me. It certainly looked paniced.

[cincyhokie]

I agree Hue didn't exactly cover himself in glory Sunday, but in all fairness he was working with third- and fourth-stringers and taxi squad players who have probably spent most of their time on the scout team (in between strenuous bouts of sitting on the bench on Sundays) and he had six days to install what he could.

What bugged me more watching the game was seeing Luck toss check-down after check-down to Herron for 10 or 15 yards each. That's just a bread and butter play, and Andy ought to have had an RB (like Gio) wriggling free on every snap just the same way. Skyline was yelling about the lack of dump-off options a while back and this game was a glaring example.

All of that is true but you'd think there was, oh I don't know, a contingency set of plays that could be opened up in case the top 2 receivers went down. It's not like Green and Gresham have injury histories, right?

The offensive strategy is about as sensitive as a turtle ecosystem. It's built around a flawed QB that needs almost perfect conditions to excel. Then you don't come out prepared when players get injured. Frequently injured players at that.

Ill prepared and out coached again.

And yes, it is fair to give some benefit of the doubt considering the circumstances re: injuries....BUT I'm more interested in how they learn going forward, how they address depth in FA, and how they can tweek the playbook.

Something I do know, 0-6 in the playoffs ain't no fluke.

[HoosierCat]

All of that is true but you'd think there was, oh I don't know, a contingency set of plays that could be opened up in case the top 2 receivers went down. It's not like Green and Gresham have injury histories, right?

Maybe, but again I think we're putting the cart a little in front of the horse. Let me put it another way: the lack of razzle-dazzle and creativity doesn't disturb me half as much as the lack of the first dozen or so pages of the "Generic Football Playbook."

Take the Colts (please!). They didn't need creativity to beat us. Send 2-3 guys downfield, clear out the middle of the field as they do so, have Herron fake a pass block, squirt out of the pocket, stand there wide FREAKING open 5 yards from Luck in the middle of the field while I scream THAT'S THE FIFTH FUGGING TIME THEY RAN THAT PLAY IN THE LAST MINUTE COME THE FUGG ON DEFENSE WAKE THE FUGG UP at the TV and scare the dog into running upstairs, then Luck lobs the ball to Herron and he runs for 10-15 yards.

I completely agree they were outcoached and outprepared. There is absolutely nothing that Herron did that Gio or even Burkhead shouldn't have been able to do. And there's no excuse for losing the trench battle on both sides of the ball -- a place where injuries were not a factor. Id love more creativity but I think there's still work to be done on the basics first.

[kingwilly]

I agree Hue didn't exactly cover himself in glory Sunday, but in all fairness he was working with third- and fourth-stringers and taxi squad players who have probably spent most of their time on the scout team (in between strenuous bouts of sitting on the bench on Sundays) and he had six days to install what he could.

What bugged me more watching the game was seeing Luck toss check-down after check-down to Herron for 10 or 15 yards each. That's just a bread and butter play, and Andy ought to have had an RB (like Gio) wriggling free on every snap just the same way. Skyline was yelling about the lack of dump-off options a while back and this game was a glaring example.

I agree. Really, I saw the O-line do an ok job.

When the D knows you are super limited, stack the box and dare your backup wide outs to beat you, not much is going to work.

In fact, it was only in the 4th that Andy even attempted to roll out or break from the pocket. Andy did make a few nice throws, crdit where due, but more than not the route runer did not have the requisite ability to execute or the pass was poor. Sanu dropped some passes. Andy had Gio on a nice touch pass sidewalk but he overthrew it by a foot during the first drive on first down that was a missed bg play. The 30 yard screen in the 3rd when it was still 20-10 that got called back for the Bodine hold was a real crusher.

The deep pass on 3rd and 5 to Little when he essentially quit the route is a perfect example of the WRs simply not being good enough. I think it was a dumb playcall, but Little was going past the CB and the pass was a very nice ball. He doesn't botch that effort and that could be a score (or if it had been Jones). Same deal with the flea flicker. Had Tate more of an angle, Dalton could have led him and kept the ball apart from the cover man. That they needed to resprt to that again shows how desperate they were.

Herron catching 10 for 85 shows how the D was simply playing to not get beat deep by Luck. That he dumped it off so much shows to me that the coverage deep was pretty solid, though it left a lot to be desired from the LB group (no matter how decimated). They did bottle up Fleener (1 for 18) but with no pressure Luck could chink and chunk to Herron all day, which he did.

I think the media is being lazy in their bashing of the Bengals today. It's easy to just poke at Dalton and say "same old 1 and done Bengals" but the more I look, the more obvious it was that a run heavy (and quickly abandoned) scheme was going to be easy to stop.

I am less irritated about this loss than the last year. Last year, they blew it. This year, they were doomed from the coin flip.

[cincyhokie]

All of that is true but you'd think there was, oh I don't know, a contingency set of plays that could be opened up in case the top 2 receivers went down. It's not like Green and Gresham have injury histories, right?

Maybe, but again I think we're putting the cart a little in front of the horse. Let me put it another way: the lack of razzle-dazzle and creativity doesn't disturb me half as much as the lack of the first dozen or so pages of the "Generic Football Playbook."

Take the Colts (please!). They didn't need creativity to beat us. Send 2-3 guys downfield, clear out the middle of the field as they do so, have Herron fake a pass block, squirt out of the pocket, stand there wide FREAKING open 5 yards from Luck in the middle of the field while I scream THAT'S THE FIFTH FUGGING TIME THEY RAN THAT PLAY IN THE LAST MINUTE COME THE FUGG ON DEFENSE WAKE THE FUGG UP at the TV and scare the dog into running upstairs, then Luck lobs the ball to Herron and he runs for 10-15 yards.

I completely agree they were outcoached and outprepared. There is absolutely nothing that Herron did that Gio or even Burkhead shouldn't have been able to do. And there's no excuse for losing the trench battle on both sides of the ball -- a place where injuries were not a factor. Id love more creativity but I think there's still work to be done on the basics first.

NTWHBS. ^^^^this

[GapControl]

I agree Hue didn't exactly cover himself in glory Sunday, but in all fairness he was working with third- and fourth-stringers and taxi squad players who have probably spent most of their time on the scout team (in between strenuous bouts of sitting on the bench on Sundays) and he had six days to install what he could.

What bugged me more watching the game was seeing Luck toss check-down after check-down to Herron for 10 or 15 yards each. That's just a bread and butter play, and Andy ought to have had an RB (like Gio) wriggling free on every snap just the same way. Skyline was yelling about the lack of dump-off options a while back and this game was a glaring example.

I agree. Really, I saw the O-line do an ok job.

When the D knows you are super limited, stack the box and dare your backup wide outs to beat you, not much is going to work.

In fact, it was only in the 4th that Andy even attempted to roll out or break from the pocket. Andy did make a few nice throws, crdit where due, but more than not the route runer did not have the requisite ability to execute or the pass was poor. Sanu dropped some passes. Andy had Gio on a nice touch pass sidewalk but he overthrew it by a foot during the first drive on first down that was a missed bg play. The 30 yard screen in the 3rd when it was still 20-10 that got called back for the Bodine hold was a real crusher.

The deep pass on 3rd and 5 to Little when he essentially quit the route is a perfect example of the WRs simply not being good enough. I think it was a dumb playcall, but Little was going past the CB and the pass was a very nice ball. He doesn't botch that effort and that could be a score (or if it had been Jones). Same deal with the flea flicker. Had Tate more of an angle, Dalton could have led him and kept the ball apart from the cover man. That they needed to resprt to that again shows how desperate they were.

Herron catching 10 for 85 shows how the D was simply playing to not get beat deep by Luck. That he dumped it off so much shows to me that the coverage deep was pretty solid, though it left a lot to be desired from the LB group (no matter how decimated). They did bottle up Fleener (1 for 18) but with no pressure Luck could chink and chunk to Herron all day, which he did.

I think the media is being lazy in their bashing of the Bengals today. It's easy to just poke at Dalton and say "same old 1 and done Bengals" but the more I look, the more obvious it was that a run heavy (and quickly abandoned) scheme was going to be easy to stop.

I am less irritated about this loss than the last year. Last year, they blew it. This year, they were doomed from the coin flip.

Kingwilly- that is the most realistic portrayal of the game I've read. You and I were clearly watching the same game. We are all diehard homers on this forum. And diehard dreamers. With AJ out, I knew we had less than a 50% chance but with Gresham out I figured about a 10% chance. When Rey M went down, I knew we were done.

Sterling Sharpe laid it out quite perfectly in the pregame. AJ needs to be there for the run game to work. He is the decoy, the threat. He also makes good blocks. What no analyst wants to say during the game is that Gresham was just as crucial to the run game. He also gives Dalton a check down.

The on air coverage ignored the obvious to try and keep people tuned in to keep the ratings high. They hardly mentioned Rey M getting knocked out of the game. That destroyed any chance th defense had at winning the game for us.

We can be dreamers and homers but there is a reality where the players on the field matter more than anything else.