Browns @ Bengals Game Thread

[HoosierCat]

Hue has thrown in some tweaks but the offense didn't change fundamentally from last year. The biggest change has been playcalling balance (more runs, fewer passes).

I'm sure the coaches tried to change things up. I'm sure they tried in 2008 too. Didn't help.

The Browns said after the game that they knew what plays the Bengals were going to run. They claimed it was because they studied the tape harder. Well, shit, if it was just a matter of studying some tape to be able to know your opponents' plays, every team would know every other team's plays every game. But when you've got your own experienced translator on hand I think it's another story.

[volcom69]

That maybe but still no excuses for Dalton to miss guys when they were wide open, or open enough for the catch. No excuses for WR dropping the ball either. There were chances out there for them to score and move the ball, but they showed the desire to do neither.

[HoosierCat]

No, not at all. Dalton was awful and the rest of the O wasn't any help. But Hawkins helps explain, at least to me, why they were record-setting bad.

As to why they're just bad in prime time generally, like I said, I'm baffled. All I can think is that it's (meaning their record of poor play) in their heads (and Iloka admits as much on the .com).

[ArmyBengal]

Was also glad to see Little "make them pay" for cutting him.

Nice head butt resulting in a 15 yard personal foul there ass clown.

[cincyhokie]

I'm beginning to think AJ Green is overrated. There. I said it.

[gregcook68]

I'm beginning to think AJ Green is overrated. There. I said it.

His ability isn't underrated, his tenacity is, and hurts him big time!

[TJJackson]

AJ hasn't impressed me recently either

That said, I suspect he is still injured and playing through it rather than taking the time off to get to 100%

[TJJackson]

the whole "Babyhawk the translator" thing aside - our defense has gone from dominating to dominated.

Our D (if it can even be called that) is just godawful

[HoosierCat]

AJ hasn't impressed me recently either

That said, I suspect he is still injured and playing through it rather than taking the time off to get to 100%

He is and it won't heal this season. The only answer as I understand it is rest. So it comes down to how much pain he can play through.

That said, before he got hurt I thought he could do more to improve his game than he seemed to be doing. Still, even now he probably starts for any team in the league.

[cincyhokie]

Why does he shrink in every big game since 2011?

[Passepartout]

What happened with the Bengals? Really they should had won that game!

[HoosierCat]

Why does he shrink in every big game since 2011?

Same reason the whole team seems to shrink in big games. And if I knew that reason I'd tell you. My guess, as before, is that these games have gotten into their heads. remember the whole thing about the monkey on Mannings back in Indy? These games are their monkeys.

I forget who it was, it might have been you, who was calling for the team to hire a sports psychologist. I'm starting to think that's a good idea.

[cincyhokie]

Why does he shrink in every big game since 2011?

Same reason the whole team seems to shrink in big games. And if I knew that reason I'd tell you. My guess, as before, is that these games have gotten into their heads. remember the whole thing about the monkey on Mannings back in Indy? These games are their monkeys.

I forget who it was, it might have been you, who was calling for the team to hire a sports psychologist. I'm starting to think that's a good idea.

It was me and it's a great, and obvious, idea.

[gregcook68]

Despite the Browns game and everything else we can find, MB isn't going to trade or cut him.

Soooo, the only thing I can do is try to find a bright spot and see how similar franchise scenarios were handled in the past.

Kenny Anderson started with the Bengals in 1971. He lost 3 playoff games between 1971 and 1981. That all changed in 1981. He ended up winning his first playoff game and going to the SB and winning the league MVP.

It took him 10 years to win a playoff game.

The first game in 1981 was against Seattle. After the first half, the Seahawks were up 21-0, Anderson had 3 picks and a QB rating of, I believe 2.7, I know it was 2.something.

Forest Gregg benched him the second half to send a message. Fortunately, the Bengals ended up winning the game, Anderson started the next game and went on to win the MVP and took the team to the SB.

Now, no I'm not comparing Dalton to Anderson. No I'm not saying I think Dalton will lead the team to the the SB or win the league MVP.

What I am saying is this:

1. I'm glad PB didn't get frustrated after 10 years of an 0-3 playoff record and trade or cut Anderson.

2. I'm glad Gregg benched Anderson and would support the same kind of move with Dalton.

3. IF the Cardinals happen to make it to the SB, it would support the Bengals willingness to be patient with their QBs, unless they get run out of town by side shows like the Johnson/Owens Circus.

4. We know Dalton stays, all we can do is hope for a wake up call and continue to be patient.

[cincyhokie]

Despite the Browns game and everything else we can find, MB isn't going to trade or cut him.

Soooo, the only thing I can do is try to find a bright spot and see how similar franchise scenarios were handled in the past.

Kenny Anderson started with the Bengals in 1971. He lost 3 playoff games between 1971 and 1981. That all changed in 1981. He ended up winning his first playoff game and going to the SB and winning the league MVP.

It took him 10 years to win a playoff game.

The first game in 1981 was against Seattle. After the first half, the Seahawks were up 21-0, Anderson had 3 picks and a QB rating of, I believe 2.7, I know it was 2.something.

Forest Gregg benched him the second half to send a message. Fortunately, the Bengals ended up winning the game, Anderson started the next game and went on to win the MVP and took the team to the SB.

Now, no I'm not comparing Dalton to Anderson. No I'm not saying I think Dalton will lead the team to the the SB or win the league MVP.

What I am saying is this:

1. I'm glad PB didn't get frustrated after 10 years of an 0-3 playoff record and trade or cut Anderson.

2. I'm glad Gregg benched Anderson and would support the same kind of move with Dalton.

3. IF the Cardinals happen to make it to the SB, it would support the Bengals willingness to be patient with their QBs, unless they get run out of town by side shows like the Johnson/Owens Circus.

4. We know Dalton stays, all we can do is hope for a wake up call and continue to be patient.

Fair enough. When is the cutoff? At what point do you cease to "keep waiting"? Let Dalton retire his career here because "he'll get it eventually"?

I, like many others, saw a scared and rattled 4th year QB. The little bit of hope I had that Dalton can get this team over the hump was lost. Same with Marvin. There's a good chance that Dalton is gone after 2015. I wouldn't be shocked if Marvin didn't follow him out the door.

[volcom69]

I'm still wondering about Hue Jacksons offense. I don't know maybe things are to complicated, every time I see them there is so much confusion, so many guys moving at the line, Dalton always taking early TO, running the no huddle but going 3 and out. Just line up and go after the defense, sometimes thinking into things to much is a bad thing. Who knows just sick of seeing guys look confused, or early time outs! Get to the line and attack, oh and start attacking downfield more, keep the defense back then maybe they could run the ball. Also with how bad the defense is maybe the hurry up offense without the huddle is not the best thing all the time.

[gregcook68]

I'm still wondering about Hue Jacksons offense. I don't know maybe things are to complicated, every time I see them there is so much confusion, so many guys moving at the line, Dalton always taking early TO, running the no huddle but going 3 and out. Just line up and go after the defense, sometimes thinking into things to much is a bad thing. Who knows just sick of seeing guys look confused, or early time outs! Get to the line and attack, oh and start attacking downfield more, keep the defense back then maybe they could run the ball. Also with how bad the defense is maybe the hurry up offense without the huddle is not the best thing all the time.

Volcom, I'm not disagreeing with anything you are saying, I'm just trying to find a way to deal with the hand we fans are realistically dealt.

If the Browns are willing to wait 10 years with Anderson and 5 with Boomer it probably means we'll have to wait it out and try to find some peace SOMEWHERE!

[cincyhokie]

Anderson and Boomer were strong leaders. Anderson was smart. Boomer was tough and had an arm. Dalton is neither. Keep running him out there and imploding and you'll lose that locker room real fast. If it's not already too late.

Dalton is gone after 2015.

[gregcook68]

Anderson and Boomer were strong leaders. Anderson was smart. Boomer was tough and had an arm. Dalton is neither. Keep running him out there and imploding and you'll lose that locker room real fast. If it's not already too late.

Dalton is gone after 2015.

Check. Check. Check. However it's not going to change unless the Browns sell out.

I'll continue to ride with peace regardless. Been a fan since day 1. Already got my long haul stripes! lol

[kingwilly]

Here are the fundamental issues:

Offense:

No Marvin Jones

No Tyler Eifert

No Andrew Hawkins

-------------

AJ Green at 75%

Gio Bernard at 75%

-------------

Whit one year older

Bodine a rookie

Moobs not playing to his previous level

Dalton's known weaknesses easily exposed

Defense:

No MJ

Atkins slowly getting back to form

Burfict needs prolonged rest for his head

Leon is a shadow of his former self

Hunt not progressing enough to replace MJ

Peko, Newman and Jones another year older

Kirkpatrick not progressing enough to displace any of the aging/recovering vets

Dennard still too early

Only bright spots are Iloka and Lamur

-----------------

I'm not convinced its an issue of Hue or Paul taking over on their sides of the ball. I see the above as far more of a contributing factor.

[HoosierCat]

I'd add

No AC/Newhouse a downgrade

Boling coming off knee surgery

Gresham is Gresham

Bilikudi lost to roster games/Still not developing

FNR hurt/LNR sucks now/having to raid a PS for a LB

All things considered it's a minor miracle they've done as well as they have.

[cincyhokie]

At some point they'll go through a season with no injuries and win it all.

The Bengals hold on to players TOO long that are no longer effective.

They are a reactive organization. Not proactive.

[kingwilly]

I'd add

No AC/Newhouse a downgrade

Boling coming off knee surgery

Gresham is Gresham

Bilikudi lost to roster games/Still not developing

FNR hurt/LNR sucks now/having to raid a PS for a LB

All things considered it's a minor miracle they've done as well as they have.

I think the misses/duds in the draft are the part that is really hurting them. They take guys like Hunt/Clarke and let go of MJ.

Not much FA activity to address the spots where the talent drop off is huge, like at WR. Not paying Hawk, then relying on Hamilton, Sanzenbackup, Tate for depth is a big management error. Gresham is a waste of effort.

Other things like how much the injuries have depleted the LB corp is a surprise. first and last name Reys look pretty bad... Porter out, and the other depth is kind of lame...

Then when you look at Andy, all his know deficiencies just are amplified.

[cincyhokie]

I'd add

No AC/Newhouse a downgrade

Boling coming off knee surgery

Gresham is Gresham

Bilikudi lost to roster games/Still not developing

FNR hurt/LNR sucks now/having to raid a PS for a LB

All things considered it's a minor miracle they've done as well as they have.

I think the misses/duds in the draft are the part that is really hurting them. They take guys like Hunt/Clarke and let go of MJ.

Not much FA activity to address the spots where the talent drop off is huge, like at WR. Not paying Hawk, then relying on Hamilton, Sanzenbackup, Tate for depth is a big management error. Gresham is a waste of effort.

Other things like how much the injuries have depleted the LB corp is a surprise. first and last name Reys look pretty bad... Porter out, and the other depth is kind of lame...

Then when you look at Andy, all his know deficiencies just are amplified.

That...and...playing Geathers over Hunt. What has Geathers done in the last 5 years?

[HoosierCat]

At some point they'll go through a season with no injuries and win it all.

I know that's meant as semi-snark but it almost happened in 2005. They had very few injuries that year and what few they did had came back fast (in detriment to their careers). Then Kimo happened and it all blew up.

That was the season tha taught me "next man up" is a complete load of crap.