2014 Prediction

[gregcook68]

1. I like MJ, he was a good play and losing him hurts, but it's not like a future Hall of Famer just walked out the door.

2. I suspect Atkins and Hall will both take time to work into shape, but the silver lining is that the season's is back-loaded so they should be rounding into form right when the scheduled gets toughest.

3. Not sure where you are seeing that, Hue seems to be getting strong reviews.

4. The Ravens maybe, though there seems to be surprisingly little buzz even though they were active in FA earlier. OTOH I'm not sure what Pitt has done and I think people are starting to notice. If Tomlin's seat isn't a little warm this season it should be.

5. And that's the heart of the issue. 1-4 are just fluff. The CW is that Andy Dalton Isn't Good Enough, therefore Cincy is doomed. At this point I hope they keep talking about how much Dalton sucks all summer. Nothing like a bulletin board full of that for motivation.

3. I don't read much media but my son follows it. He just hasn't heard any reviews that feel Hue will make a significant difference to overcome 1,2, 4, and 5.

BTW, just for kicks and giggles, I just registered into the Falcons forum and posted this:

"Greetings! I am a Bengals fan and wanted to stop by just to compare notes. I'm not here to troll or cause problems.

I was hoping I could start a post to see if Matt Ryan ever went through the same fan bashing that Dalton is enduring after 3 straight playoff appearances without a playoff win.

I expect the media to do it but not fans, especially since he's only been playing 3 years.

He's in the same position Matt was in 2012. Trying to win his first playoff game in his 4th playoff attempt!"

I've gotten one reply and he said the Falcon fans give Ryan the same negative scrutiny!

Just not sure why the national media seems to give him a pass.

For at least one of those years, Ryan had Bratkowski as QB coach so you can write that year off. Can't blame Ryan for that.

For those keeping score at home, Ryan had nothing resembling the Bengals defense in any of his years there. And by almost any measure, Ryan has the superior toolset to be a real NFL QB.

This is why "comparison" are not a clean and symmetric exercise.

As for the abuse he takes from ATL fans, those people need to wake up and thank God everyday they have Ryan. Heck, they could have a guy like Dalton.

I could say the same thing about Bengal fans, opposed to the fans of about 20 other NFL teams.

Die hard fans want playoff wins and SBs. Anything less is failure and the QB gets the blame especially after a team goes 4-12 like Atlanta did! Never mind the injuries Atlanta had.

Every fan expects their QB to be 'Brady-like' and win regardless of the team around him!

So far, and I emphasize, SO FAR, Dalton has taken the Bengals from the 4-12 Johnson/Owens Circus to 11-5, and not vice versa like Atlanta.

[HoosierCat]

For at least one of those years, Ryan had Bratkowski as QB coach so you can write that year off. Can't blame Ryan for that.

For those keeping score at home, Ryan had nothing resembling the Bengals defense in any of his years there. And by almost any measure, Ryan has the superior toolset to be a real NFL QB.

You might want to look again. Ryan has had some pretty good defenses in Atlanta.

In 2008, Ryan's first year and first playoff year, the Falcons ranked 11th in the league in terms of fewest points allowed (20.3/game). And they held up their end of the bargain in the WC game against Arizona. Unfortunately their 21 points allowed were in addition to 9 from Ryan (pick 6, safety).

When they went back to the playoffs in 2010, it was on the strength of the defense, which dropped to 5th in points allowed (18/game). But they ran into the soon-to-be SB champion Packers in the first round and got clobbered in all three phases of the game. Ryan threw for just 186 yards and 2 picks.

The next time they got to the postseason, 2011, was the first time you couldn't credit the D, which was just middle of the road. The offense was 7th in scoring and 10th in yards, led by a Ryan with a 92.2 rating for the season. So it's hard to say that Bratkowski hurt Ryan. Still, no doubt the playoff game against the Giants was a disaster. The offense scored 0 points the whole game. Atlanta's only score was a safety. Despite its average ranking the D played OK, allowing 24 points. If they had any offense at all it might have been a game.

[redsbengalsbucks]

1. I like MJ, he was a good play and losing him hurts, but it's not like a future Hall of Famer just walked out the door.

2. I suspect Atkins and Hall will both take time to work into shape, but the silver lining is that the season's is back-loaded so they should be rounding into form right when the scheduled gets toughest.

3. Not sure where you are seeing that, Hue seems to be getting strong reviews.

4. The Ravens maybe, though there seems to be surprisingly little buzz even though they were active in FA earlier. OTOH I'm not sure what Pitt has done and I think people are starting to notice. If Tomlin's seat isn't a little warm this season it should be.

5. And that's the heart of the issue. 1-4 are just fluff. The CW is that Andy Dalton Isn't Good Enough, therefore Cincy is doomed. At this point I hope they keep talking about how much Dalton sucks all summer. Nothing like a bulletin board full of that for motivation.

3. I don't read much media but my son follows it. He just hasn't heard any reviews that feel Hue will make a significant difference to overcome 1,2, 4, and 5.

BTW, just for kicks and giggles, I just registered into the Falcons forum and posted this:

"Greetings! I am a Bengals fan and wanted to stop by just to compare notes. I'm not here to troll or cause problems.

I was hoping I could start a post to see if Matt Ryan ever went through the same fan bashing that Dalton is enduring after 3 straight playoff appearances without a playoff win.

I expect the media to do it but not fans, especially since he's only been playing 3 years.

He's in the same position Matt was in 2012. Trying to win his first playoff game in his 4th playoff attempt!"

I've gotten one reply and he said the Falcon fans give Ryan the same negative scrutiny!

Just not sure why the national media seems to give him a pass.

For at least one of those years, Ryan had Bratkowski as QB coach so you can write that year off. Can't blame Ryan for that.

For those keeping score at home, Ryan had nothing resembling the Bengals defense in any of his years there. And by almost any measure, Ryan has the superior toolset to be a real NFL QB.

This is why "comparison" are not a clean and symmetric exercise.

As for the abuse he takes from ATL fans, those people need to wake up and thank God everyday they have Ryan. Heck, they could have a guy like Dalton.

We can write off a year because of Ryan's QB coach, but it is all Dalton's fault that Gruden cant call a game in the playoffs? Come on man, let the guy prove what he has before discarding him. He is at least the third best QB in Bengals history through the first 3 seasons. Not saying much considering there have only been 4 good QB's that have lasted for three seasons.

[HoosierCat]

And just for the record, the year Brat was in Atlanta (2011) remains Ryan's second-best year. At the time it was his best year to date.

[kingwilly]

Atlanta's "best" D still was not good as what Zimmer had built. Very good but not as good.

This is not to slag on Dalton, this is more to show these comparisons just don't work.

Put it this way, if you could choose Dalton or Ryan, where do you lay your cash?

Thought so.

[kingwilly]

Oh, and "die hard" fans don't measure by playoff and SB wins! That's what I'd say bandwagon fans measure by!

!

[gregcook68]

Oh, and "die hard" fans don't measure by playoff and SB wins! That's what I'd say bandwagon fans measure by!

Bandwagon fans root for winning teams and do not stay with one team. They root for whoever is winning that particular season! At least, that's how I define 'bandwagon' fans!

You yourself said, "...those people need to wake up and thank God everyday they have Ryan. Heck, they could have a guy like Dalton."

Let's put that statement into 'Bengal' perspective. "Bengal fans need to wake up and thank God everyday that they aren't still in the 90s, and have a QB who has taken them from 4-12, to 11-5, and gone to the playoffs 3 years in a row. Heck, they could have guys like Matt Stafford, Carson Palmer, Mike Glennon, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Ryan Tannenhill, Matt Cassel, Christian Ponder, Chad Henne, Matt Schaub, Brandon Weeden, or Geno Smith!"

[gregcook68]

Atlanta's "best" D still was not good as what Zimmer had built. Very good but not as good.

This is not to slag on Dalton, this is more to show these comparisons just don't work.

Put it this way, if you could choose Dalton or Ryan, where do you lay your cash?

If you want to play fantasy football, I'd like to see us move back in time 12 years and choose Tom Brady. Or go back 35 years and choose Kenny Anderson! Heck, let's go for broke and go back 46 years with today's medical technology and choose Greg Cook again!! ;)/>

[kingwilly]

I admire your willingness to bait folks here. I do.

But it feels like you are working very hard to convince folks they need to accept something that they clearly don't want to accept.

I also wouldn't lump Tannehill Stafford and Schaub into the list with the likes of Henne and Cassel. All that tells me is your understanding of QB play/evaluation is poor.

In fact, you place Stafford in with that Dalton has had, on offense and defense and i suspect there'd be a different outcome to the playoff games v Houston and SD.

Also, and though I don't speak for anyone else here, it's ludicrous preaching to us about somehow forgetting the dark times (ie most of our adult lives) following the Bengals.

[kingwilly]

Oh, I see. The more I simplify it for you, the more absurd you make it (fantasy football comment).

You can slice it however you like. Fact remains, until Dalton shows he can deliver he's going to be a target of criticism, most of it rightly deserved. Dark times notwithstanding, other QB comparisons notwithstanding.

He's had an elite D and elite weapons every year he's been here. Indisputable. He's played his worst when the light was brightest...

So, do the trends point up or down?

[gregcook68]

I admire your willingness to bait folks here. I do.

But it feels like you are working very hard to convince folks they need to accept something that they clearly don't want to accept.

I also wouldn't lump Tannehill Stafford and Schaub into the list with the likes of Henne and Cassel. All that tells me is your understanding of QB play/evaluation is poor.

In fact, you place Stafford in with that Dalton has had, on offense and defense and i suspect there'd be a different outcome to the playoff games v Houston and SD.

Also, and though I don't speak for anyone else here, it's ludicrous preaching to us about somehow forgetting the dark times (ie most of our adult lives) following the Bengals.

Just going along with your example of how fortunate the Falcons are to have Ryan, at 4-12, with 1 playoff win in 5 years, as opposed to Dalton.

If you can't take it king dawg, don't dish it out.

If I had your football insight and mind, with all of your 'if this and if thats' scenarios, I'd be coaching college football somewhere. ;)/>

[kingwilly]

Can't take it? You are deluded.

I apologize for engaging with you. It's not even discourse on a level I have with my kids. It's the kind you have with that weird uncle who cooks every meal with aluminum pans.

Apart from missing the direct and indirect comparisons mentioned through not only this thread but what's been central to this forum since the second loss to Houston, you now simply embarrass yourself by dragging this out.

Maybe the best way to say it is I pity you.

[gregcook68]

Oh, I see. The more I simplify it for you, the more absurd you make it (fantasy football comment).

You can slice it however you like. Fact remains, until Dalton shows he can deliver he's going to be a target of criticism, most of it rightly deserved. Dark times notwithstanding, other QB comparisons notwithstanding.

He's had an elite D and elite weapons every year he's been here. Indisputable. He's played his worst when the light was brightest...

So, do the trends point up or down?

Time will tell. If things don't get any better, you always have the option to bandwagon. Pick a team that meet your NFL standards.

I was 15 when Paul brought the Bengals to town and have been a fan ever since.

These days remind of the Anderson/Esaison eras.

A team that's capable of winning every Sunday!

I'll stick with my 'defeatist' attitude that I'm glad I'm not still a Browns fan! ;)/>

[gregcook68]

Can't take it? You are deluded.

I apologize for engaging with you. It's not even discourse on a level I have with my kids. It's the kind you have with that weird uncle who cooks every meal with aluminum pans.

Apart from missing the direct and indirect comparisons mentioned through not only this thread but what's been central to this forum since the second loss to Houston, you now simply embarrass yourself by dragging this out.

Maybe the best way to say it is I pity you.

Why in the world aren't you coaching football somewhere?

As brilliant as you think you are! It's not fair to our high school and college kids!

[kingwilly]

I'd be happy to put my money where my mouth is. Why don't you PM me and I'll enlighten you a bit, about my own professional athletic career, my current coaching and so forth....

[gregcook68]

I'd be happy to put my money where my mouth is. Why don't you PM me and I'll enlighten you a bit, about my own professional athletic career, my current coaching and so forth....

You can PM me with your resume. All nonsense and sarcasm aside, I would truly be interested in it.

[kingwilly]

I'd be happy to put my money where my mouth is. Why don't you PM me and I'll enlighten you a bit, about my own professional athletic career, my current coaching and so forth....

You can PM me with your resume. All nonsense and sarcasm aside, I would truly be interested in it.

Yep, sarcasm aside. I made the offer. Go on now, do it.

[gregcook68]

I'd be happy to put my money where my mouth is. Why don't you PM me and I'll enlighten you a bit, about my own professional athletic career, my current coaching and so forth....

You can PM me with your resume. All nonsense and sarcasm aside, I would truly be interested in it.

Yep, sarcasm aside. I made the offer. Go on now, do it.

I did. Says you cannot receive any new messages.

[kingwilly]

Hold on. I need to disable the filter:had it set to deny PMs from "uncle Rico" type folks. Give me a minute.

[gregcook68]

Hold on. I need to disable the filter:had it set to deny PMs from "uncle Rico" type folks. Give me a minute.

10 4 Dare I ask who uncle rico is or was??

[kingwilly]

Uncle Rico

[COB]

Hold on. I need to disable the filter:had it set to deny PMs from "uncle Rico" type folks. Give me a minute.

LMAO.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Oh, I see. The more I simplify it for you, the more absurd you make it (fantasy football comment).

You can slice it however you like. Fact remains, until Dalton shows he can deliver he's going to be a target of criticism, most of it rightly deserved. Dark times notwithstanding, other QB comparisons notwithstanding.

He's had an elite D and elite weapons every year he's been here. Indisputable. He's played his worst when the light was brightest...

So, do the trends point up or down?

I can dispute the elite weapons clause there. He has had Green, paired with average WR's and a pathetic running game more often than not. Give Dalton the running game that Ryan has had in Atlanta until last season and he probably shows better in those big games. I will agree that last year the running game improved some and the WR's other than Green finally showed some game time presence. This year should tell, if they can keep the weapons they finally have given Dalton healthy.

I think you are reaching to make your point a little King and it just is not like you.

[HoosierCat]

Atlanta's "best" D still was not good as what Zimmer had built. Very good but not as good.

The 2010 Altanta defense held opponents to 18 points a game. The best Zimmer ever did was 19.2 last year. You're entitled to you own opinions but not your own facts.

This is not to slag on Dalton, this is more to show these comparisons just don't work.

The comparison works fine. You just don't want it to because you want to slag Dalton.

[gregcook68]

Oh, I see. The more I simplify it for you, the more absurd you make it (fantasy football comment).

You can slice it however you like. Fact remains, until Dalton shows he can deliver he's going to be a target of criticism, most of it rightly deserved. Dark times notwithstanding, other QB comparisons notwithstanding.

He's had an elite D and elite weapons every year he's been here. Indisputable. He's played his worst when the light was brightest...

So, do the trends point up or down?

I can dispute the elite weapons clause there. He has had Green, paired with average WR's and a pathetic running game more often than not. Give Dalton the running game that Ryan has had in Atlanta until last season and he probably shows better in those big games. I will agree that last year the running game improved some and the WR's other than Green finally showed some game time presence. This year should tell, if they can keep the weapons they finally have given Dalton healthy.

I think you are reaching to make your point a little King and it just is not like you.

You guys are making the same points I was. He just didn't like getting baited and was upset with me and the way I responded.