After Thoughts:Chargers vs Bengals Playoff Thread

[ArmyBengal]

I suppose that's up for debate, but I don't think the Bengals go into Foxboro next week and win if things had turned out differently yesterday.

If they win yesterday and lose in Foxboro the following week, doesn't it just delay all of what we are seeing today ??

Don't get me wrong, I would love the playoff win VERY much, but the questions about Dalton would be the same.

[cincyhokie]

I suppose that's up for debate, but I don't think the Bengals go into Foxboro next week and win if things had turned out differently yesterday.

If they win yesterday and lose in Foxboro the following week, doesn't it just delay all of what we are seeing today ??

Don't get me wrong, I would love the playoff win VERY much, but the questions about Dalton would be the same.

Depends on how they lose in NE. What we saw yesterday was embarrassing but it was also confusing.

[gregcook68]

They split with each team in the division this season.

They need to play better on the road and in big games.

I guess what I'm saying is, until this team can start beating Steelers and Ravens on a consistent basis, they can't expect to make it to or win the Superbowl.

[ArmyBengal]

I suppose that's up for debate, but I don't think the Bengals go into Foxboro next week and win if things had turned out differently yesterday.

If they win yesterday and lose in Foxboro the following week, doesn't it just delay all of what we are seeing today ??

Don't get me wrong, I would love the playoff win VERY much, but the questions about Dalton would be the same.

Depends on how they lose in NE. What we saw yesterday was embarrassing but it was also confusing.

I think that's easy to say today Hokie.

How many people have sh*t to say about Kaepernick and his effort yesterday in their win ??

He won, but he was like 50% with a TD and a pick.

If the Bengals had ended up going into Foxboro and losing, I think Dalton still takes heat regardless.

I will admit it would be easier with a playoff win under the belt, but nonetheless the same.

[COB]

How many people have sh*t to say about Kaepernick and his effort yesterday in their win ??

He won, but he was like 50% with a TD and a pick.

I don't know exactly how to express this, but this is as close as I can get: Andy isn't even in the same league as Kaepernick. I argue you can't put much stock into those stats. I believe my own eyes. Kaepernick's arm is so much stronger, he's so much quicker and faster, his pocket awareness is so superior, he's more accurate.

You could bash Luck by pointing out his 3 picks. We all know Andy can throw picks, but he can't approach the throws Luck used to rally from 28 down.

I know you weren't saying we could trade Andy for Kaepernick. But I can dream, can't I?

[COB]

Also, I feel like we would have won in Foxboro. We just ran into this year's hot playoff team, and Dalton had one of his down days. We can beat New England.

[cincyhokie]

Bill and Brady with 2 weeks to prepare along with Grudens stale game plan from week 5.

Prime time in NE???

We get our asses kicked in every conceivable way.

[Kazkal]

Few things stand out to me.

1. Gruden should go right now.

2. Marvin simply can't take this team over the hump. He's great with evaluating talent, but he should be done coaching.

3. Dalton doesn't give me any type of optimism moving forward. He might be really good at times, but i'm not optimistic.

Agreed,I just wanna know what happen to our defense almost 200 yards rushing given up...wth...

[HoosierCat]

I think they just ran out of gas, kaz. Too many injuries, too much duct tape and spit, lots of heart but no legs.

Re watch the game and you'll see Burfict struggling and Thompson getting manhandled on the line. The predraft stuff on Dre, that he was a zone guy not a man corner, looks like it was accurate. He's never seen a fake he hasn't fallen for. Hunt wasn't ready for prime time. Etc, etc.

Zimmer was on Lance's show after Jay tonight and said something to the effect of, doing his game planning all the second half of the season, every week he was thinking, damn if I only had Geno and Hall I could do this, this and this.

2009 all over again.

[cincyhokie]

I think they just ran out of gas, kaz. Too many injuries, too much duct tape and spit, lots of heart but no legs.

Re watch the game and you'll see Burfict struggling and Thompson getting manhandled on the line. The predraft stuff on Dre, that he was a zone guy not a man corner, looks like it was accurate. He's never seen a fake he hasn't fallen for. Hunt wasn't ready for prime time. Etc, etc.

Zimmer was on Lance's show after Jay tonight and said something to the effect of, doing his game planning all the second half of the season, every week he was thinking, damn if I only had Geno and Hall I could do this, this and this.

2009 all over again.

Man, I agree with that. But next year there will be injuries too. A couple of core guys will be down. If not on defense it will be on offense. This secondary is routinely hurt year in and year out. In 2011 it was the DE's getting banged up all of the time.

I know we want to look forward to "all the guys coming back" but there will never be a season with no key injuries. They have to keep on building depth. The best teams do it because all teams are going to get hurt.

[gregcook68]

I think they just ran out of gas, kaz. Too many injuries, too much duct tape and spit, lots of heart but no legs.

Re watch the game and you'll see Burfict struggling and Thompson getting manhandled on the line. The predraft stuff on Dre, that he was a zone guy not a man corner, looks like it was accurate. He's never seen a fake he hasn't fallen for. Hunt wasn't ready for prime time. Etc, etc.

Zimmer was on Lance's show after Jay tonight and said something to the effect of, doing his game planning all the second half of the season, every week he was thinking, damn if I only had Geno and Hall I could do this, this and this.

2009 all over again.

Man, I agree with that. But next year there will be injuries too. A couple of core guys will be down. If not on defense it will be on offense. This secondary is routinely hurt year in and year out. In 2011 it was the DE's getting banged up all of the time.

I know we want to look forward to "all the guys coming back" but there will never be a season with no key injuries. They have to keep on building depth. The best teams do it because all teams are going to get hurt.

Except the 2013 Eagles. Might be something to Kelly's conditioning regiment.

Have no clue how many teams had key players out for more than half the season.

All teams get banged up but we had a lot of key players out for the playoffs.

[ArmyBengal]

How many people have sh*t to say about Kaepernick and his effort yesterday in their win ??

He won, but he was like 50% with a TD and a pick.

I don't know exactly how to express this, but this is as close as I can get: Andy isn't even in the same league as Kaepernick. I argue you can't put much stock into those stats. I believe my own eyes. Kaepernick's arm is so much stronger, he's so much quicker and faster, his pocket awareness is so superior, he's more accurate.

You could bash Luck by pointing out his 3 picks. We all know Andy can throw picks, but he can't approach the throws Luck used to rally from 28 down.

I know you weren't saying we could trade Andy for Kaepernick. But I can dream, can't I?

COB, I don't disagree that Kaepernick may be superior in those areas to Dalton. I wasn't suggesting that.

What I am suggesting is that while he had a great game rushing, he didn't throwing and that isn't a concern because they won.

Stats are stats and sometimes they are skewed, but Kaepernick didn't finish in the top half of the league in yards, completion %, or TD's.

Somehow he's a stone cold killer (I really like by the way ) with nothing to improve (I know you didn't suggest that).

I've already stated the Bengals would have done well by drafting Kaepernick, but I won't suggest the outcome would have been so different.

Lets not pretend he doesn't have weapons out there on the bay and a top 5 defense to go along with them.

[gregcook68]

How many people have sh*t to say about Kaepernick and his effort yesterday in their win ??

He won, but he was like 50% with a TD and a pick.

I don't know exactly how to express this, but this is as close as I can get: Andy isn't even in the same league as Kaepernick. I argue you can't put much stock into those stats. I believe my own eyes. Kaepernick's arm is so much stronger, he's so much quicker and faster, his pocket awareness is so superior, he's more accurate.

You could bash Luck by pointing out his 3 picks. We all know Andy can throw picks, but he can't approach the throws Luck used to rally from 28 down.

I know you weren't saying we could trade Andy for Kaepernick. But I can dream, can't I?

COB, I don't disagree that Kaepernick may be superior in those areas to Dalton. I wasn't suggesting that.

What I am suggesting is that while he had a great game rushing, he didn't throwing and that isn't a concern because they won.

Stats are stats and sometimes they are skewed, but Kaepernick didn't finish in the top half of the league in yards, completion %, or TD's.

Somehow he's a stone cold killer (I really like by the way :sure:/> ) with nothing to improve (I know you didn't suggest that).

I've already stated the Bengals would have done well by drafting Kaepernick, but I won't suggest the outcome would have been so different.

Lets not pretend he doesn't have weapons out there on the bay and a top 5 defense to go along with them.

Look what Eli Manning and Flacco do without the horses!

[ArmyBengal]

I will say that Eli and Burt have gotten their team to and won the Super Bowl, but agree that they need weapons.

All QB's need to have weapons. Brady and Manning may be the closest thing to a QB making regular Joes better, but they need help as well.

For all the greatness that is Peyton Manning, he's won exactly 1 Super Bowl. It's a team sport.

[HoosierCat]

I think they just ran out of gas, kaz. Too many injuries, too much duct tape and spit, lots of heart but no legs.

Re watch the game and you'll see Burfict struggling and Thompson getting manhandled on the line. The predraft stuff on Dre, that he was a zone guy not a man corner, looks like it was accurate. He's never seen a fake he hasn't fallen for. Hunt wasn't ready for prime time. Etc, etc.

Zimmer was on Lance's show after Jay tonight and said something to the effect of, doing his game planning all the second half of the season, every week he was thinking, damn if I only had Geno and Hall I could do this, this and this.

2009 all over again.

Man, I agree with that. But next year there will be injuries too. A couple of core guys will be down. If not on defense it will be on offense. This secondary is routinely hurt year in and year out. In 2011 it was the DE's getting banged up all of the time.

I know we want to look forward to "all the guys coming back" but there will never be a season with no key injuries. They have to keep on building depth. The best teams do it because all teams are going to get hurt.

Yes, there will always be injuries, but some years are better than others, and this year wasn't one of them.

[gregcook68]

I will say that Eli and Burt have gotten their team to and won the Super Bowl, but agree that they need weapons.

All QB's need to have weapons. Brady and Manning may be the closest thing to a QB making regular Joes better, but they need help as well.

For all the greatness that is Peyton Manning, he's won exactly 1 Super Bowl. It's a team sport.

And Brady benefits from always seemingly to have an offense line to protect him.

We tongue-in-cheek about Dalton needing perfect protection to be successful, well if you think back, Brady's always had that 75% of the time or better!!

Very, very seldom do you see him throwing on the run or running the ball himself!

[HoosierCat]

To repeat, it's a team game. And the team lost Sunday. Dalton threw multiple picks and fumbled the ball untouched. Gio fumbled yards from the end zone. The oline was little more than a speed bump. The defense produced exactly zero big plays. And the coaches had no answers.

[Sea Ray]

Also, I feel like we would have won in Foxboro. We just ran into this year's hot playoff team, and Dalton had one of his down days. We can beat New England.

SD's this year's hot team? They barely made it into the playoffs against a team playing its 2nd stringers on the road. They needed KC to miss a chip shot FG. The Chargers sure didn't look like a hot team vs KC. Sunday vs SD was our game to win

[kingwilly]

Also, I feel like we would have won in Foxboro. We just ran into this year's hot playoff team, and Dalton had one of his down days. We can beat New England.

SD's this year's hot team? They barely made it into the playoffs against a team playing its 2nd stringers on the road. They needed KC to miss a chip shot FG. The Chargers sure didn't look like a hot team vs KC. Sunday vs SD was our game to win

Chargers had won 4 straight, most of those entering the playoffs. The KC game was a shock, that they'd get the win there but the records get tossed once the dance begins.

Agree the Bengals had a winnable game on the table, and flopped. Imagine though if it had Pitt that got in and came to town, and the Bengals dropped this turn out there against them?

I know its a cynical thought but this is the exact situation that SoP has always wanted, always alluded to. He's found his alchemy formula. Season was "good", could have been "great", should have been "excellent". I think if he could simply bottle this and produce it every year, he would happily do it.

[cincyhokie]

Also, I feel like we would have won in Foxboro. We just ran into this year's hot playoff team, and Dalton had one of his down days. We can beat New England.

SD's this year's hot team? They barely made it into the playoffs against a team playing its 2nd stringers on the road. They needed KC to miss a chip shot FG. The Chargers sure didn't look like a hot team vs KC. Sunday vs SD was our game to win

Chargers had won 4 straight, most of those entering the playoffs. The KC game was a shock, that they'd get the win there but the records get tossed once the dance begins.

Agree the Bengals had a winnable game on the table, and flopped. Imagine though if it had Pitt that got in and came to town, and the Bengals dropped this turn out there against them?

I know its a cynical thought but this is the exact situation that SoP has always wanted, always alluded to. He's found his alchemy formula. Season was "good", could have been "great", should have been "excellent". I think if he could simply bottle this and produce it every year, he would happily do it.

The biggest question that needs the most attention is "how does a team that is better, player for player, lose at home...by 17 points...where they were undefeated all season?"

If the Bengals simply turn towards the "we just had a bad day" answer, they're doing themselves a disservice. There's a mental hurdle this team still can't get over. They need to figure out what it is and address it.

Leadership? Coaching shake up? Accountabilty from the coaches to the players? Gameday preparation? Conservative gameplanning? Playing not to lose in big games?

They've been handed a HUGE gift of a learning opportunity in the form of an embarrassing 17 point loss at home. What do they do with it in 2014? By not looking at it objectively and honestly, it will continue to haunt them.

[kingwilly]

Also, I feel like we would have won in Foxboro. We just ran into this year's hot playoff team, and Dalton had one of his down days. We can beat New England.

SD's this year's hot team? They barely made it into the playoffs against a team playing its 2nd stringers on the road. They needed KC to miss a chip shot FG. The Chargers sure didn't look like a hot team vs KC. Sunday vs SD was our game to win

Chargers had won 4 straight, most of those entering the playoffs. The KC game was a shock, that they'd get the win there but the records get tossed once the dance begins.

Agree the Bengals had a winnable game on the table, and flopped. Imagine though if it had Pitt that got in and came to town, and the Bengals dropped this turn out there against them?

I know its a cynical thought but this is the exact situation that SoP has always wanted, always alluded to. He's found his alchemy formula. Season was "good", could have been "great", should have been "excellent". I think if he could simply bottle this and produce it every year, he would happily do it.

The biggest question that needs the most attention is "how does a team that is better, player for player, lose at home...by 17 points...where they were undefeated all season?"

If the Bengals simply turn towards the "we just had a bad day" answer, they're doing themselves a disservice. There's a mental hurdle this team still can't get over. They need to figure out what it is and address it.

Leadership? Coaching shake up? Accountabilty from the coaches to the players? Gameday preparation? Conservative gameplanning? Playing not to lose in big games?

They've been handed a HUGE gift of a learning opportunity in the form of an embarrassing 17 point loss at home. What do they do with it in 2014? By not looking at it objectively and honestly, it will continue to haunt them.

So, the two narratives are:

1. Looks how far we've come, look how much progress we've made. Let's keep going, we are on the right path, we can make it!

2. It's not enough, there is a missing component is fatal to the plan. Isolate an area and blow it up.

Given the tendency of Mike Brown, I imagine they go path 1. It's a proven and successful NFL business model. It's not a terrible thing to have a decently competitive team that fully engages and captures your market. It's a massive improvement from the "dark" years. Why tinker too much with it and screw it up?

I think unless Gruden or Zimmer, or both, leave then I won't expect anything to have a chance to change.

[skyline]

Also, I feel like we would have won in Foxboro. We just ran into this year's hot playoff team, and Dalton had one of his down days. We can beat New England.

SD's this year's hot team? They barely made it into the playoffs against a team playing its 2nd stringers on the road. They needed KC to miss a chip shot FG. The Chargers sure didn't look like a hot team vs KC. Sunday vs SD was our game to win

Chargers had won 4 straight, most of those entering the playoffs. The KC game was a shock, that they'd get the win there but the records get tossed once the dance begins.

Agree the Bengals had a winnable game on the table, and flopped. Imagine though if it had Pitt that got in and came to town, and the Bengals dropped this turn out there against them?

I know its a cynical thought but this is the exact situation that SoP has always wanted, always alluded to. He's found his alchemy formula. Season was "good", could have been "great", should have been "excellent". I think if he could simply bottle this and produce it every year, he would happily do it.

The biggest question that needs the most attention is "how does a team that is better, player for player, lose at home...by 17 points...where they were undefeated all season?"

If the Bengals simply turn towards the "we just had a bad day" answer, they're doing themselves a disservice. There's a mental hurdle this team still can't get over. They need to figure out what it is and address it.

Leadership? Coaching shake up? Accountabilty from the coaches to the players? Gameday preparation? Conservative gameplanning? Playing not to lose in big games?

They've been handed a HUGE gift of a learning opportunity in the form of an embarrassing 17 point loss at home. What do they do with it in 2014? By not looking at it objectively and honestly, it will continue to haunt them.

So, the two narratives are:

1. Looks how far we've come, look how much progress we've made. Let's keep going, we are on the right path, we can make it!

Well, it's true that this team has gotten better each of the past three years. It hasn't shown itself in playoff wins, but there has been improvement. Many will claim that there can't be improvement without playoff wins. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Ignoring everyone's war cries of getting rid of Lewis and Dalton (which we all know aren't happening), I see two things that can take this team to the next level:

1) Better luck with injuries next season

2) A more consistent offense.

If both of those things happen, then I can see the Bengals taking the #1 seed in the AFC next season. Of course, the entire question revolves around how you make #2 happen. First, I think most here would be happy to see Gruden move on. It could be argued that this would hurt our continuity which would not be helpful for consistency. But, as far as I can see, the continuity on offense has done nothing more than make us consistently inconsistent. Follow?

Item number 2 would be to solidify the o-line (a.k.a. get me a frickin' center). And some depth beyond that wouldn't hurt, either.

This team is so close. Hopefully once the dust clears, we'll see some optimism creep it's way back in.

[cincyhokie]

Also, I feel like we would have won in Foxboro. We just ran into this year's hot playoff team, and Dalton had one of his down days. We can beat New England.

SD's this year's hot team? They barely made it into the playoffs against a team playing its 2nd stringers on the road. They needed KC to miss a chip shot FG. The Chargers sure didn't look like a hot team vs KC. Sunday vs SD was our game to win

Chargers had won 4 straight, most of those entering the playoffs. The KC game was a shock, that they'd get the win there but the records get tossed once the dance begins.

Agree the Bengals had a winnable game on the table, and flopped. Imagine though if it had Pitt that got in and came to town, and the Bengals dropped this turn out there against them?

I know its a cynical thought but this is the exact situation that SoP has always wanted, always alluded to. He's found his alchemy formula. Season was "good", could have been "great", should have been "excellent". I think if he could simply bottle this and produce it every year, he would happily do it.

The biggest question that needs the most attention is "how does a team that is better, player for player, lose at home...by 17 points...where they were undefeated all season?"

If the Bengals simply turn towards the "we just had a bad day" answer, they're doing themselves a disservice. There's a mental hurdle this team still can't get over. They need to figure out what it is and address it.

Leadership? Coaching shake up? Accountabilty from the coaches to the players? Gameday preparation? Conservative gameplanning? Playing not to lose in big games?

They've been handed a HUGE gift of a learning opportunity in the form of an embarrassing 17 point loss at home. What do they do with it in 2014? By not looking at it objectively and honestly, it will continue to haunt them.

So, the two narratives are:

1. Looks how far we've come, look how much progress we've made. Let's keep going, we are on the right path, we can make it!

2. It's not enough, there is a missing component is fatal to the plan. Isolate an area and blow it up.

Given the tendency of Mike Brown, I imagine they go path 1. It's a proven and successful NFL business model. It's not a terrible thing to have a decently competitive team that fully engages and captures your market. It's a massive improvement from the "dark" years. Why tinker too much with it and screw it up?

I think unless Gruden or Zimmer, or both, leave then I won't expect anything to have a chance to change.

No, that's not what I said.

And still the question of how did this team manage to lose will go unanswered. If it does, we'll continue to spin our wheels in the same spot.

Replacing some of the coaching staff is blowing things up? Looking at the offensive philosophy and game planning is blowing things up?

Maybe I'm not reading what you wrote clearly.

Man, it's kind of weird, but expected, how much get's lost in written communication. Haha! That's nothing at all what I wrote. At all.

[HoosierCat]

Re a more consistent offense, it just might help if, for once, we didn't have a bunch of personnel churn.

Maybe it's because of how successful the team has been over the past three seasons that the youth of the offense gets overlooked. They've cycled through three sets of wide receivers, several guards, and numerous RBs and TEs and FBs/h-backs/whatevers. I mean, just look at the list:

AJ Green

Jerome Simpson

Andre Caldwell

Armon Binns

Ryan Whalen

Brandon Tate

Mo Sanu

Marvin Jones

Orson Charles

Tyler Eifert

Bernard Scott

Nate Livings

Clint Boling

Brian Leonard

Chris Pressley

And, of course, Andy Dalton

And that's just draft picks and castoffs, not free agents.

We need oline help but i believe it would do a great deal of good to keep the disruptions on O to a minimum. Concentrate for once on making the guys we have better, not replacing them with the new flavor of the month.

[skyline]

Re a more consistent offense, it just might help if, for once, we didn't have a bunch of personnel churn.

Maybe it's because of how successful the team has been over the past three seasons that the youth of the offense gets overlooked. They've cycled through three sets of wide receivers, several guards, and numerous RBs and TEs and FBs/h-backs/whatevers. I mean, just look at the list:

AJ Green

Jerome Simpson

Andre Caldwell

Armon Binns

Ryan Whalen

Brandon Tate

Mo Sanu

Marvin Jones

Orson Charles

Tyler Eifert

Bernard Scott

Nate Livings

Clint Boling

Brian Leonard

Chris Pressley

And, of course, Andy Dalton

And that's just draft picks and castoffs, not free agents.

We need oline help but i believe it would do a great deal of good to keep the disruptions on O to a minimum. Concentrate for once on making the guys we have better, not replacing them with the new flavor of the month.

True enough, but I think our skill players are pretty much set at this point.

Most are under contract for next season, and I can't see any of these guys being unseated : Green, Jones, Gresham, Eifert, BJGE, Bernard. You can probably throw Sanu into that list. That's enough of a consistent core, right there.

We still don't know what to expect from the FB position next season, but on my list of reasons that the team didn't perform consistently on offense, that one is near the bottom of the list.