Bengals vs Colts pregame thread

[cincyhokie]

Ill be pissed if they change up the o-line this week! Are they blind, did they not see how much better the line looked last week, especially the run game. Did they not see how much fun Whit was having mulling people over! I hope this is not a money issue, do what's best for the team. Not a hard choice in my mind.

I was thinking the same thing. The line looked completely re-engergized led by a Whitworth who looked like an excited rookie getting his first chance to lay people out!

The bad news? Things look like they won't change. The good news? If there is someone to pressure change for the benefit of the team, it's Whitworth.

There was no coincidence that when the interior of the line was strengthened that BJGE ran wild up the middle.

[kingwilly]

Everyone seems to be in favor of Whit staying inside at the Guard spot, but will he ??

I really hope this isn't another situation where they get cute in making this decision.

You know Whit is a beast inside, you know he likes doing it, you know it works.

On a cold crappy day against a dome team with run defense issues, what's to think about ??

Hey Colts, this is our lineup and we are going to stick this ball in your backside all game long.

Try to stop us.

If Zeitler doesn't go, is this there even a choice of not putting Whitworth at guard? Hawkinson?

The depth chart on Bengals.com is saying Whit goes back to LT, so the Bengals are at least giving an appearance of not only having a choice, but in fact making that choice

Sad but true

I pray it is all smoke....it *really* needs to be (barring injury) AC at LT and Whit at LG for the remainder of the year

I dont think Hawkinson gets in on offensive snaps (assuming he is even activated) unless we have multiple OL injuries

I wouldn't put much into what the bengals.com depth chart says at this moment. it also lists Orson Charles as the FB...

[TJJackson]

as I said, I hope it's smoke

[ArmyBengal]

I don't put much stock in anything said or read. When they line up on Sunday, we will know.

Here's something that jumped into my mind today. Who else on the roster plays LT besides AC and Whit ??

The reason I ask is that maybe they are reluctant to start both AC and Whit due to the "what if" factor.

If an injury occurs, then what ?? What if both got injured ??

Don't get me wrong, I hate the "what if" game, but have seen it put to use and error on the side of caution.

That being said, I still say you go with the best players, giving you the best shot at winning and don't look back.

Seriously, did anyone else watch Whit pull from the Guard position last week and feel like getting into a fight ??

The way he was just blowing people up made me feel like I just came out of a Rocky movie.

I want more of that.

[cincyhokie]

I don't put much stock in anything said or read. When they line up on Sunday, we will know.

Here's something that jumped into my mind today. Who else on the roster plays LT besides AC and Whit ??

The reason I ask is that maybe they are reluctant to start both AC and Whit due to the "what if" factor.

If an injury occurs, then what ?? What if both got injured ??

Don't get me wrong, I hate the "what if" game, but have seen it put to use and error on the side of caution.

That being said, I still say you go with the best players, giving you the best shot at winning and don't look back.

Seriously, did anyone else watch Whit pull from the Guard position last week and feel like getting into a fight ??

The way he was just blowing people up made me feel like I just came out of a Rocky movie.

I want more of that.

Activate Mr. Tackle Eligible and deactivate Hawkinson at game time. Problem solved.

[kingwilly]

I don't put much stock in anything said or read. When they line up on Sunday, we will know.

Here's something that jumped into my mind today. Who else on the roster plays LT besides AC and Whit ??

The reason I ask is that maybe they are reluctant to start both AC and Whit due to the "what if" factor.

If an injury occurs, then what ?? What if both got injured ??

Don't get me wrong, I hate the "what if" game, but have seen it put to use and error on the side of caution.

That being said, I still say you go with the best players, giving you the best shot at winning and don't look back.

Seriously, did anyone else watch Whit pull from the Guard position last week and feel like getting into a fight ??

The way he was just blowing people up made me feel like I just came out of a Rocky movie.

I want more of that.

I don't think they are going to decide who plays and who plays where based on injury concerns... You don't field a lesser set of guys, holding someone back, because of fear they might get hurt if they played.

[ArmyBengal]

Oh don't get me wrong, I could certainly come up with further scenarios in case of injury, but that's just me.

What the organization feels is obviously quite a different thought process.

I suspect Dre could always be the next guy up in the LT debate with someone else rolling to the RT spot.

However, I don't want to get to far into the "what if" game, as I don't care for it all that much.

I also wasn't aware or forgot that Pollak came over from Indianapolis and was a 2nd round draft pick.

Not that it makes all that much difference, but noting.

[ArmyBengal]

I don't think they are going to decide who plays and who plays where based on injury concerns... You don't field a lesser set of guys, holding someone back, because of fear they might get hurt if they played.

I don't think that should be done either.

I'm merely trying to take a guess at why they wouldn't continue what they saw working from last week.

Then again, there has to be some explanation for what appears to have been there all along and not pursued.

Why has it taken so long to see something that has been there from the start ??

[kingwilly]

I don't think they are going to decide who plays and who plays where based on injury concerns... You don't field a lesser set of guys, holding someone back, because of fear they might get hurt if they played.

I don't think that should be done either.

I'm merely trying to take a guess at why they wouldn't continue what they saw working from last week.

Then again, there has to be some explanation for what appears to have been there all along and not pursued.

Why has it taken so long to see something that has been there from the start ??

One reason is probably it would be hard to admit to themselves they'd both misjudged talent and misjudged the business aspect (contracts) of their line. And the longer it goes on, the harder it becomes to undo.

It's probable that Collins has been 1b to Whit's 1a at LT. If they've sat Collins for what, 3 years, essentially mismanaging the talent and performance on the oline, wasting draft picks here and there for spots that could have been settled, how does that make Alexander and the staff (Browns) look. Add to that, they did have Mathis here, and he played very well but they had a big hard on for Livings...just to muddy this up even further!

So, if Whit is the best LG on the team, and is placed there, how can they justify giving him top LT money? That, and if I'm Collins and now the starting LT, I assume to want starting LT money. Let's say the move is permanent, do you let Whit play out his contract $ at LG? Do you pay Collins the money he will command, will have proven he's worth? If they've been stashing Collins in order to suppress interest in him, or his value, then if I'm him I leave on the first train in FA.

Football is about playing the best folks in the best spots, as well as managing the tradeoffs between similarly talented and versatile players, like Whit and Collins. Seems from what we've seen this has "mismanagement" all over it. Here's hoping the swallow their pride and simply assemble the most effective line that gives them the best chance to win, contract value/status or egos be damned.

[ArmyBengal]

I can get with that line of thought, but here's all that should be considered.

Will they care how much they pay Whit or Collins if they bring home the Lombardi ??

Mismangement indeed. There should be many questions asked about this.

[HoosierCat]

Hawkins, Zeitler and Whit all limited in practice today. Everyone else full go.

[HoosierCat]

I agree with everything Willie wrote a few posts up. The only thing I'd add is that letting Whit play out his current contract at guard isn't unreasonable from a money perspective. His salary in 2014 is scheduled to be $5 million, same in 2015. Now, that's more than the Bengals have traditionally spent on guards, but other teams have put bigger numbers in that spot.

[kingwilly]

I agree with everything Willie wrote a few posts up. The only thing I'd add is that letting Whit play out his current contract at guard isn't unreasonable from a money perspective. His salary in 2014 is scheduled to be $5 million, same in 2015. Now, that's more than the Bengals have traditionally spent on guards, but other teams have put bigger numbers in that spot.

agree. the $ is not a real issue but more of what I call a traditional "apprehension" of the organization, a la Steinbach. Not saying it would rear its head here but crazier things have happened (like signing that cripple, Antonio Bryant).

[EmDiggy]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA7R2wyHWI4

Good evening Bengals fans! Good luck this week!

Em

[HoosierCat]

Good stuff Emory. I like how you've moved the white board segment to the front.

Re the game two thoughts.

One, there won't be any injury related softness on the interior of the oline if they keep Whitworth at LG. In fact the line will be stronger than it was with Boling there.

Two, you mapped out a couple pass plays for the Colts, but the weather in Cincy Sunday is predicted to suck. Freezing temps, some wind and freezing rain. In other words a terrible day fot passing. Do you think the Colts can do anything on the ground?

[jjakq27]

I heard an interesting comment this morning on Mike and Mike. CO-host Mike Greenberg was critiquing the Colts v Bengals game with Mark Schlereth on their Five-Point Stance segment and said the Bengals would be the top team in the AFC if Andrew Luck was the QB here instead of Andy.

Basically the defense and specifically the front seven are a force and there are a number of weapons on offense but he needs to play better than he has in the last four weeks. On the contrary side they said the Colts are a train-wreck right now with the exception of Luck and they both picked the Bengals to win on Sunday.

Also, on the Bengals Roundtable radio show last evening, Dave Lapham said that Jay Gruden admitted that Tyler Eifert is the most under utilized player on the offense. There was a brief discussion about having too many weapons and the necessity of trying to keep everybody involved in the game and feeling pressure to spread it around. He also said Gruden acknowledged that he instructed Andy to throw the ball up to AJ on that bad pick on Sunday. He thought AJ could just out-jump the double team but it ended up being overthrown and AJ had no chance.

[HoosierCat]

I heard an interesting comment this morning on Mike and Mike. CO-host Mike Greenberg was critiquing the Colts v Bengals game with Mark Schlereth on their Five-Point Stance segment and said the Bengals would be the top team in the AFC if Andrew Luck was the QB here instead of Andy.

Basically the defense and specifically the front seven are a force and there are a number of weapons on offense but he needs to play better than he has in the last four weeks. On the contrary side they said the Colts are a train-wreck right now with the exception of Luck and they both picked the Bengals to win on Sunday.

Funny, because just before that they did the "stone cold lead pipes locks" and Weenie took the Colts over the Bengals.

As for the Luck versus Dalton BS, I seem to recall that once upon a time, the Bengals too had a first overall pick with a cannon arm at QB. And he had better weapons and a better oline than Andy has. And three years into his career, after starting just 28 of a possible 47 games (0 playoff appearances) and going 17-11 (.607) they handed him $118.75 million.

And he never got better. And he never won anything. And then he quit.

Fast-forward to today. In his third year Andy has played in 44 of 44 possible games. He's 27-17 (.613) with two playoff appearances. Andrew Luck?

Been there. Done that.

[volcom69]

Everybody says that stuff about Dalton. Last night I heard Mayock say in that football game, bengals are a Super Bowl team if Dalton can figure it out. Figure out what I'm not sure?

[Walrus]

Also, on the Bengals Roundtable radio show last evening, Dave Lapham said that Jay Gruden admitted that Tyler Eifert is the most under utilized player on the offense. There was a brief discussion about having too many weapons and the necessity of trying to keep everybody involved in the game and feeling pressure to spread it around. He also said Gruden acknowledged that he instructed Andy to throw the ball up to AJ on that bad pick on Sunday. He thought AJ could just out-jump the double team but it ended up being overthrown and AJ had no chance.

"Too many weapons"? That's a BS excuse. I'm assuming that was a paraphrase of something Lapham said and not anything Gruden may have said.

[TJJackson]

Ditka says we will lose

/>http://espn.go.com/nfl/picks/_/week/14

[ArmyBengal]

Look, there are many teams that would be better if they had the #1 overall when one of the best QB prospects in a long time was there for the taking.

What a stupid ass comment to make.

I recall watching Luck throw a TB pass to Green in the pro bowl and thinking to myself "WOW", but again you can't always be in a position to get those types of players. How many teams out there would say, if we only had a playmaking WR like AJ Green, we would be good ?? Well, again that team has to be in a position to draft a high end prospect from the start.

Dalton can get us to the Super Bowl and I don't doubt that.

While he has things to improve upon, he has that ability.

QB's have off games. They have nights where they don't look superhuman.

How did Drew Brees look the other night against the Seahawks ??

There is more to that argument, but that's not the argument i'm making.

Simply said, all QB's have bad games. Dalton just needs to limit his.

[HoosierCat]

Look, there are many teams that would be better if they had the #1 overall when one of the best QB prospects in a long time was there for the taking.

Maybe. Or maybe they'd just be wasting a higher pick. Judging QBs is a tricky business, something everyone, me included, seems to routinely forget.

Case in point. Way back in the mists of 2004, when Josh K. was still a humble BZ mod and not yet the Cincy Jungle blogging titan he is today, he passed along a piece by Mark Curnutte (remember him?). Curnutte was addressing calls for the Bengals to bench Palmer that year, his first as a starter, after the Bengals fell to 2-5 due in part to turnovers by the new QB. Here's the conclusion of Curnutte's column:

Houston's David Carr was drafted first overall in 2002 and started as a rookie. He had nine touchdown passes, 15 interceptions and a 62.8 passer rating. The Texans were 4-12 in Carr's 16 starts.

This season, the Texans are 4-3, and Carr has nine touchdown passes, five interceptions and a 99.7 passer rating.

Detroit drafted Joey Harrington with the third overall pick in 2002. He started 12 games as a rookie, winning just three. He had 12 touchdown passes, 16 interceptions and a 59.9 passer rating. This season, Harrington's third, he has 12 touchdown passes, four interceptions and a 94.5 passer rating for the 4-3 Lions.

You get the point. Palmer will be every bit as good as Carr and Harrington, if not better. And just as coaches Dom Capers and Steve Mariucci have built better teams around their quarterbacks, so, too, will Lewis.

Well...that's quite the train wreck, isn't it? In hindsight, it turned out to be wrong on practically every point. Yet it seemed perfectly reasonable at the time.

Just food for thought.

[ArmyBengal]

From all accounts, neither Carr nor Harrington brought to table what Luck did.

Them being the best option available, doesn't make them great QB's in my line of thought.

Luck on the other hand was widely considered a Peyton clone that doesn't come along all that often.

It's a biggest reason the Colts were good moving on from Peyton.

That was what I was trying to point out in regards to a team sitting in that position to draft him.

[HoosierCat]

From all accounts, neither Carr nor Harrington brought to table what Luck did.

Them being the best option available, doesn't make them great QB's in my line of thought.

Luck on the other hand was widely considered a Peyton clone that doesn't come along all that often.

It's a biggest reason the Colts were good moving on from Peyton.

That was what I was trying to point out in regards to a team sitting in that position to draft him.

Oh, I understand. My point in return was that the evaluation of Luck might simply be wrong. We can't say yet. I do find it...interesting that so much of what I've read this week on his struggles lately comes down to, "well, he lost Wayne and his oline sucks so that's why he is having problems." But wait -- I thought the Payton Mannings of the world didn't need weapons. Haven't we been told that "real" franchise QBs make the team around them better, and can turn schlubs into stars? And that it is only lesser QBs (like Andy Dalton) who need to be surrounded by talent to succeed? Where does that leave Luck?

[gregcook68]

Glad to see some common sense in here.

I'm so sick of the Dalton bashing.

Yes, he probably won't be an 'elite' QB.

Yes, he needs to improve and is improving.

I'm tired of comparing the first three year QB stats of other QBs to show where Dalton stands.

Tired of pointing out how 4 time SB champion QB Terry Bradshaw was not only NOT an elite QB, because during those seasons Chuck Knoll kept rotating starting QBs between Bradshaw, Hanratty, and Gilliam trying to decide who was the bona fide starter. Pundits used to say Bradshaw was stupid and the only thing he had going for him was his cannon arm.

Terry got hot at the end of each of those seasons and was blessed with tremendous offensive weapons and one of the best defenses to ever step on a football field

Russell Wilson types don't come along very often!

Andy is the Bengals QB until the staff decide otherwise, I have absolutely no input or control over that whatsoever, so I will continue to root for him through the good and not so good days.

WHO DEY!!!!