Your Greatest Concern Player Wise

[HoosierCat]

Honorable mention goes to the contract extension situations. I want them to get done and NOT to become any kind of distraction. I have no reason to doubt that Mikey will pony up for his own guys because he has a history of being pretty aggressive at getting good players re-signed. But, until it happens, I will continue to fret a bit. Because that's what I do.

Getting Moobs re-signed eased my fears a bit on this front, and I've already resigned myself to losing Dunlap or MJ next year. My main concerns are Atkins and Green. If they keep going as they have been, they will command Haynesworth/Megatron money, i.e. $100 million-plus deals. I can see the Bengals biting the bullet on one deal that size, but two will be tough to swallow.

[ArmyBengal]

Honorable mention goes to the contract extension situations. I want them to get done and NOT to become any kind of distraction. I have no reason to doubt that Mikey will pony up for his own guys because he has a history of being pretty aggressive at getting good players re-signed. But, until it happens, I will continue to fret a bit. Because that's what I do.

Getting Moobs re-signed eased my fears a bit on this front, and I've already resigned myself to losing Dunlap or MJ next year. My main concerns are Atkins and Green. If they keep going as they have been, they will command Haynesworth/Megatron money, i.e. $100 million-plus deals. I can see the Bengals biting the bullet on one deal that size, but two will be tough to swallow.

Again, I know there are many concerned with Dalton, but what happens if we see this team get a playoff win or more this season ??

How much is Dalton going to cost ?? Like I said, there are going to be some hard decisions to make.

[Walrus]

Honorable mention goes to the contract extension situations. I want them to get done and NOT to become any kind of distraction. I have no reason to doubt that Mikey will pony up for his own guys because he has a history of being pretty aggressive at getting good players re-signed. But, until it happens, I will continue to fret a bit. Because that's what I do.

Getting Moobs re-signed eased my fears a bit on this front, and I've already resigned myself to losing Dunlap or MJ next year. My main concerns are Atkins and Green. If they keep going as they have been, they will command Haynesworth/Megatron money, i.e. $100 million-plus deals. I can see the Bengals biting the bullet on one deal that size, but two will be tough to swallow.

Again, I know there are many concerned with Dalton, but what happens if we see this team get a playoff win or more this season ??

How much is Dalton going to cost ?? Like I said, there are going to be some hard decisions to make.

To me, it brings to mind the slew of big contracts that came up in 2005/2006. Palmer's huge extension, Chad's huge extension, Levi Jones, Eric Steinbach, Big Willie, Justin Smith etc. Obviously, the team showed its willingness to spend generously on its own at that time, while making some hard decisions to let some guys walk. In hindsight, we know how these decisions worked out (mostly, not so well). I'm sure the front office is bringing that to bear when it evaluates its current situation. You see this play out elsewhere also. NE are poster children for letting talent walk when it becomes too expensive, but they stay good because they keep the RIGHT guys for the most part. The Bengals have gotten burned a lot with who they spend money on.

[Scottishbengal]

My greatest concern isn't an individual player .... it's our home record ! We haven't had a winning record at PBS since 2009 - the golden season of sweeping the division .... which has been followed by 3-5, 4-4, and 4-4 seasons.

We really need to find a way of making PBS a nasty, intimidating place to come for opposing teams.

[ArmyBengal]

We really need to find a way of making PBS a nasty, intimidating place to come for opposing teams.

Bring in more of the drunk, obnoxious, pain in the ass fans that seem to occupy the areas I always sit in for the 2-3 games I attend a season.

Seriously though, there are some that are fully into the game (yelling and screaming) and then those that seem to be watching a chess match.

[Scottishbengal]

We really need to find a way of making PBS a nasty, intimidating place to come for opposing teams.

Bring in more of the drunk, obnoxious, pain in the ass fans that seem to occupy the areas I always sit in

I'm on way .... Pittsburgh & Green Bay games !!!

[ArmyBengal]

We really need to find a way of making PBS a nasty, intimidating place to come for opposing teams.

Bring in more of the drunk, obnoxious, pain in the ass fans that seem to occupy the areas I always sit in

I'm on way .... Pittsburgh & Green Bay games !!!

Cool, we are moving the right direction I suppose !!!

[HoosierCat]

Good piece by Mike Tanier (formerly with FO) on Dalton. It's about where I am on him.

/>http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/47987810/

[ArmyBengal]

I'll take "Average" Dalton and be happy for the time being.

Say what you want, but don't all teams try to improve their o-line, WR's, and RB's to help their QB's ??

Hasn't everyone heard "The best offense is a good defense" ??

I'm not here calling Dalton elite. Hell, i'm not even calling him our long term franchise QB.

However, i'm not going to bash the guy either, because with the team they are building, Dalton can win a Super Bowl.

Not every QB that plays the game can be Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, or Brees.

I hate hearing people say sh*t like, "He can't do such and such like Brady can."

Who the hell can ??

Yeah, give me average Dalton this year and go from there.

It could be great and it could suck.

Even the great ones have rough seasons or miss the playoffs.

By the way, how did Big Ben do in the playoffs last year ??

Oh yeah...

[Walrus]

I'll take "Average" Dalton and be happy for the time being.

Say what you want, but don't all teams try to improve their o-line, WR's, and RB's to help their QB's ??

Hasn't everyone heard "The best offense is a good defense" ??

I'm not here calling Dalton elite. Hell, i'm not even calling him our long term franchise QB.

However, i'm not going to bash the guy either, because with the team they are building, Dalton can win a Super Bowl.

Not every QB that plays the game can be Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, or Brees.

I hate hearing people say sh*t like, "He can't do such and such like Brady can."

Who the hell can ??

Yeah, give me average Dalton this year and go from there.

It could be great and it could suck.

Even the great ones have rough seasons or miss the playoffs.

By the way, how did Big Ben do in the playoffs last year ??

Oh yeah...

I'm with you. They can do (and have done) much worse at QB than Dalton. Dalton has a lot going for him, particularly with the leadership and intangibles that he has begun to develop. Other teams have won a lot of games with lesser QBs. I'm on board to give him at least another season or two before reaching any final conclusions about his potential -- and if he continues on his current solid/good trajectory I will be anxious for them to get him a new contract ASAP.

That said, worst case scenerio (severe regression or some kind of bad injury this year) will get me interested in drafting another guy ASAP.

[ArmyBengal]

I know most people have a hard on for Big Ben and/or Flacco and i'm not saying they are anything other than what they have accomplished.

That being said, did either of them do it by themselves ?? Hardly. Both of those QB's have benefitted from having a top defense and nice pieces.

I would be interested to see what most QB's would do on teams that didn't consistently have a top end defense.

Brady might be the exception.

Stafford puts up MONSTER numbers and most have him ranked above Dalton. How many playoff games has he won ??

[HoosierCat]

It's a cliche but bears repeating: no sport is more of a team sport than football. Back in 2005 the number of people who thought Carson Palmer was an elite QB was roughly 100%. But take away Chad and TJ and poof. Kurt Warner was elite with the Greatest Show On Turf. After, not so much. Meanwhile, the list of Super Bowl winning QBs includes such notaries as Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler.

This Bengals team will go as far as the team will take it. And that's how it should be.

[ArmyBengal]

It's a cliche but bears repeating: no sport is more of a team sport than football. Back in 2005 the number of people who thought Carson Palmer was an elite QB was roughly 100%. But take away Chad and TJ and poof. Kurt Warner was elite with the Greatest Show On Turf. After, not so much. Meanwhile, the list of Super Bowl winning QBs includes such notaries as Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler.

This Bengals team will go as far as the team will take it. And that's how it should be.

Thank you, thank you, thank you !!!

[kingwilly]

It's a cliche but bears repeating: no sport is more of a team sport than football. Back in 2005 the number of people who thought Carson Palmer was an elite QB was roughly 100%. But take away Chad and TJ and poof. Kurt Warner was elite with the Greatest Show On Turf. After, not so much. Meanwhile, the list of Super Bowl winning QBs includes such notaries as Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler.

This Bengals team will go as far as the team will take it. And that's how it should be.

I agree, in principal, with this view.

There is but one point to this view that is being run past: Dalton is not Warner or Palmer. Dalton does not have the physical tools that those players had. Calling out the handful of average QB's to win a SB is a red herring. For every Trent Dilfer, there are the many Brady's, Rogers', Brees' and Manning's. It generally takes excellent QB play to get through the playoffs and even sniff a SB.

Can Dalton win? Yes. Is he above average? Probably. Will he be better this year? I think so.

But the exercise of this thread is not to answer with "Its a team sport", it is to identify the player that folks believe the success of the team hinges upon. In this case, in this year, with this D and the offensive players compiled, the answer has to be Dalton. He plays the most critical position on the team. He must advance his game for the team to succeed.

[HoosierCat]

There is but one point to this view that is being run past: Dalton is not Warner or Palmer. Dalton does not have the physical tools that those players had.

That's absolutely right -- and yet, even with those prototypical physical tools, they proved unable to do much without a strong supporting cast. The QB may indeed be "the most critical position on the team," but I think our disagreement lies in which part of that phrase we emphasize, the first four words or the last three. It's a reasonable point of disagreement .

[ArmyBengal]

Then there's this:
/>http://www.espn1530.com/pages/hawkandfish.html?article=11313448

On the Bengals first play from scrimmage, Off vs Def or “team period” QB Andy Dalton carried out a run fake to the offenses’ left side to RB Ben Jarvis Green-Ellis, settled in the pocket and then delivered a perfectly thrown, backside-post to a streaking Marvin Jones that would have made Tom Brady stand and salute. If Marvin Jones (known for his stellar gospel singing) were wearing his church clothes, Dalton would have dropped it directly into his left front-shirt pocket. Marvin Jones never broke stride on the play-pass, which covered approximately 60+ yards and hung in the air for what could best be described as a “football eternity”. The deep play-action-post Dalton blessed Jones with yesterday was of the “Sunday’s best” variety. CB Adam Jones, the defender charged with defending the indefensible pass, along with the entire defense, were sent a vital reminder by Dalton on the first play of the OTA-season, too : NO BIG PLAYS. Important lesson. They say experience is the best teacher, so I guess Dalton provided a blessing of a different sort for the D…“baptism by fire”

[HoosierCat]

Shouldn't the name of that blog be "Fish on Toast"?

[kingwilly]

There is but one point to this view that is being run past: Dalton is not Warner or Palmer. Dalton does not have the physical tools that those players had.

That's absolutely right -- and yet, even with those prototypical physical tools, they proved unable to do much without a strong supporting cast. The QB may indeed be "the most critical position on the team," but I think our disagreement lies in which part of that phrase we emphasize, the first four words or the last three. It's a reasonable point of disagreement .

Agreed.

One way to view it is: Would Dalton have had success where Warner or Palmer had? Maybe though not to the same level.

Another view is: Would Palmer or Warner (in prime) better run with the tools Dalton has had? Who knows. Though, suffice to say I think Green would have had another 4-6 TDs 2011/2012 each.

With the Zimmer D, I hope Dalton bumps up a couple of pegs. With Eifert, Bernard and a healthy Sanu, I think he can. Essentially, my view is it is on his shoulders: all the piece are seemingly in place, so WHO DEY!!!!!

[ArmyBengal]

Dalton is like any other QB out there not named Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.

If they don't have the pieces, they are average QB's.

Think about Flacco. He took his team to the playoffs every season, but never won the Super Bowl until last year.

People were questioning him, questioning his leadership, and saying they just didn't know if he was a good enough QB to get them over the hump.

He won the Super Bowl and became one of the highest paid players in NFL history.

If Dalton wins the Super Bowl here, is he going to get paid like an "average" QB or one of the best in the league ??

[Sea Ray]

I guarantee the Dalton detractors will become card carrying members of the Dalton Fan Club should he get hurt. They'll want that red headed, noodle armed guy back so fast it'll make your head spin

[jjakq27]

I'm not the Dalton fan I once was during year one. However, Palmer didn't really blossom until his third year (2005) in the league. And as someone else mentioned he was considered on the fringe of the elite if not in that group after that year.

So hopefully another year of seasoning for both Dalton and Gruden along with the new draftees will improve his productivity. I'm OK with Andy as QB.

As for the original theme of the thread, my biggest concern is up the gut on defense. Can Rey improve? Do they have adequate personnel at safety?

[ArmyBengal]

In regards to "up the gut" on defense, i'm really wanting to see how much Brandon Thompson gets his shot with Fat Pat leaving town.

The comment posted about the Bengals running the majority of their defense in the nickel (see without Rey) makes me feel much better.

[kingwilly]

Dalton is like any other QB out there not named Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.

If they don't have the pieces, they are average QB's.

Think about Flacco. He took his team to the playoffs every season, but never won the Super Bowl until last year.

People were questioning him, questioning his leadership, and saying they just didn't know if he was a good enough QB to get them over the hump.

He won the Super Bowl and became one of the highest paid players in NFL history.

If Dalton wins the Super Bowl here, is he going to get paid like an "average" QB or one of the best in the league ??

I see you point but this is not the case with Dalton. He has AJ Green, Gresham, and several above average role players, like Hawkins and BJGE. I compare him to the situation Stafford has: elite WR, some good pieces but a few holes (Detroit has no run game). Difference is out D is elite, Detroit's is not.

Flacco went to the AFC Champs a few times now. With an slightly above average offense. One catch from the SB in 2011... and had an elite D. If Dalton can progress the same way Flacco has, I would be ecstatic.

I think Dalton can improve. My point is that for this team, this year, he must improve to approach a 90 passer rating, with a 3-1 TD-INT ratio for this team to take the next step. It does not have to be all about him but he is the most critical player on which the success of the team hinges most.

Heck, an argument could be made that Bernard is the most critical player, as it is the dynamic tha the brings that could be the final delta. I could be convinced that he is as crucial as Dalton.

[ArmyBengal]

I see where you are going with that, but for everyone that seems to like Gresham, Hawkins, and BJGE, there is another that doesn't think much of them.

Baltimore has had a stellar defense, better than average o-line, and ray Rice.

Dalton has been sacked like crazy and needs better protection. I'm not sure he has that this season, but I love Bernard.

I agree that Dalton has to improve and see his numbers improve, but there's more to it than just him.

I guarantee if Dalton isn't having the interior of his o-line in his lap, allowing him to step into throws, his QB rating goes up dramatically.

GUARANTEE IT.

I would also cosign on how important Bernard is going to be for the offense this season.

[kingwilly]

I think we could also add Eifert to the mix in helping Dalton advance his game, alongside Bernard.

If they had Eifert/Bernard last year, I think they win 2 additional games and beat Houston.

So, if Dalton stay steady state, ability wise, but they have Eifert/Bernard to boost his play options, I think they improve. Enough to win a SB? no but enough to go back to the playoffs and win a game (or more). If Dalton can move forward AND get the boost of Eifert/Bernard, they might have something historic.