Thought Exercise

[membengal]

My perception is that Marvin Lewis-led Bengals teams uniformly do NOT play well in "must have" or "must win" or "Marvin's biggest game ever" games. In fact, going back to 2003, continuing in 2006, the three playoff losses, etc., the plethora of primetime disappointments, it is hard to come up with a list of "big games" that the Bengals have actually won under Marvin. What would that list look like? What are the 5 biggest wins this team has had under Marvin? I don't think any of them on that hypothetical list were actually "must wins".

My guesses at top 5 biggest wins under Marvin?

In no particular order:

1. Win over the Steelers in regular season in 2009 in Pittsburgh

2. Win over the Steelers in regular in season in 2005 in Pittsburgh

3. Win over the Ravens in 2009 in regular season in Baltimore

And...stumped. Others?

Just trying to be fair to see if my perception is caused by a blindspot when it comes to Marvin. But I don't think so. Big games and Marvin have been a bad combo...

[HoosierCat]

Off the top of my head...

The 2004 come from behind victory in Baltimore.

The 2004 victory over the 9-0 Chiefs.

The 2004 victory over Denver on their first MNF in forever.

The 2009 victory in week 2 at GB (I think that was the first time they won there in forever or something) after the Immaculate Deflection loss.

There have been some good wins under Marvin.

[membengal]

Yes, good wins. No argument from me there.

But, wins in "must win" games? Not so much. EVER.

[ArmyBengal]

They should just tell the team they are already in the playoffs and there is nothing to play for this coming Sunday.

Must have games under Marvin ?? Yeah, not so good.

[walzav29]

I've touched on this with different threads, but this is where i'm hoping this team is better than Marvins past teams. When the lights got bright Chad and CP wilted. We've all heard that this locker room is the strongest he's had. I like Daltons composure over Kitna and Palmer. Also the fact that the Bengals are young and the Steelers are old, it seems like the natural progression. The Circle of Life if you will. I am going to be ecstatic if the Bengals win.

[ArmyBengal]

Oh, i'm going to go absolute apesh*t if they pull out the win.

I will be watching and rooting and yelling and screaming.

I don't think I will be yelling and screaming for the right reasons however.

There's always hope.

[walzav29]

If there wasn't such a bad history with Cincy I would feel we are a true darkhorse. When you can rush the passer it is a definite cure for all of these passing offenses. What sucks is there is a notable difference in the offense since Sanu went out. I think Sundays game will come down to Marvin Jones.

Put our recent Steeler struggles out of your mind and you have a beat up old Steeler team that is 1-4 in their last 5. But I know they will be favored.

[Spor_tees]

If the game wasn't in Pittsburgh I would have more confidence. If Marvin Lewis wasn't the head coach I would have more confidence. Put two negatives together and you get a positive right?

The Bengals need to start fast, quiet the crowd, and keep Roethlisberger on his ass. If they can do that, and come out fast in the third quarter, they can win. Tall order? Yeah about as tall as a triple decker Big Boy at Frisch's.

[walzav29]

Keep in mind that Marvin has only beaten the Steelers once in Cincy (2009)

They won in Pittsburgh

2003

2005

2006

2009

[Spor_tees]

Keep in mind that Marvin has only beaten the Steelers once in Cincy (2009)

They won in Pittsburgh

2003

2005

2006

2009

Well when you take into account that this is a must win game for both teams, AND it's in Pittsburgh, that's hard to argue against. The Steelers traveled so well to Dallas it sounded like a home game for them, in Dallas, a team playing for the playoffs themselves.

[HoosierCat]

Yes, good wins. No argument from me there.

But, wins in "must win" games? Not so much. EVER.

My issue with this view is that it ignores how the team continually puts itself in "big game" situations by losing the little games. I really don't have a problem with coaching because of the playoff game in 2005, for example. I do have an issue with coaching because of the 0-4 record this October. The only reason Sundays game is a big game is that they couldn't manage evn one friggin win that month. If they had won two they would be on top of the division and if one of those wins was against Pittsburgh the Steelers would be out of the playoff hunt. In short it isn't the big games that kill this team it's the little ones.

[membengal]

Not arguing that either. But, still, there comes a time every so often where it is must win, inevitably because of other failures, and marvin has never won one of those.

Its must win for the steelers this weekend, because they put temselves in this spot. In fact,.most teams end up in these spots from.time to time. Makilong marvins track record in such games legit.

Frankly, not sure what issue u r taking with my question, so i will stop responding in this thread.

[HoosierCat]

Its must win for the steelers this weekend, because they put temselves in this spot. In fact,.most teams end up in these spots from.time to time. Makilong marvins track record in such games legit.

Right -- but IMHO that's a symptom, not the problem. Most teams end up in the spot from time to time, but the Bengals end up in it regularly. To me, that's the real challenge to Marvin's coaching: stop creating extra opportunities to fail in December by having months like last October.

[walzav29]

Can we agree on the following?

This is the best defense Marvin has had?

This is the best their special teams have played for Marvin? (Hard to validate)

And this is the healthiest they've been going into the last 2 games?

I believe the answer to these questions is yes. These are good things to have going for you. Like they say. In the playoffs defense travels.

[skyline]

It's hard to define best defense.

The defense in 2005 gave up a lot of points, but they were also a turnover-making machine which in turn helped our offense explode.

[membengal]

Hoosier, i wont be the one to defend marvins failings.

[Stripes]

They had two big wins in 2006 @Pittsburgh (Palmer's revenge) and vs. Baltimore to get back in the thick of the race. That memory is negated by the way that season ended though.

[membengal]

Stripes, thanks. soured by the choke from 8-5 to 8-8 to end that season. Any one of which would have gotten them into the playoffs...

[Stripes]

IMO, Marvin's best wins (not necessarily calling them *crucial* in the standings though):

1. @Pittsburgh 2005 -- when the playoff drought really ended

2. @Pittsburgh 2009 -- enabled a division sweep on the strength of defense

3. @Baltimore 2009 -- after Zim's wife died

4. @Pittsburgh 2006 -- the Bengals looked like a top 3 team in the league at that point

5. vs. Chiefs 2003 -- meant little in the end, but it was pivotal to escaping a decade-long losing culture

could also go with vs. Pittsburgh in 2009 since that's the only f**king time we've beaten them at home under Marvin.

[Spor_tees]

This can be a career defining moment for Andy Dalton and AJ Green.

If the offensive line plays like they did last week, this could be Dalton's last game.

It can go either way, it all depends on what Bengals team shows up, it really has nothing to do with who they are playing.